Mingling and Mixing of sexes

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Re: LI Forums your opinions

this must happen only in isalm because normally in society people interact and are quite responsible when acting upon their feelings, it is sad that you cannot exercise self-governance. as for islam pre-empting the possibility of attraction, then segregation is in itself half-baked best not have children at all cos one way or another you will still be attracted to someone, and what of lesbians what if they feel attracted how you gonna solve that one?, anyhows attraction is healthy and a part of life a person should embrace all things and live in the moment this is called living, this does not mean you act upon them when you love someone you can embrace that love and let it well-up in youre whole being, being imbued with such natural emotions is what makes us who we are, denying them is not abiding by the will of god, the purest one is one who shines like a radiant pearl whilst situated in the midst of filth, if you cannot do that, then you must live enslaved.
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Thats why Allah swt has prescribed for us a thing called "marriage" so that we can act upon our desires/attractions in a lawful manner.

You dont need to look very far to see the curruption in society that intermixing with the oposite gender causes. How many marriages end up in divorce because of ppl having ellicit affairs. The spread of aids, children born out of wedlock etc etc. All these things start with "attraction" then lead to other things which then lead to major sinful acts. Islam has a cure for everything. It warns us about the harms of free mixing. Its cure starts with the root of where this illness arises from which is to lower the gaze and to avoid free mixing.
 
Re: LI Forums your opinions

ISDhillon said:
this must happen only in isalm because normally in society people interact and are quite responsible when acting upon their feelings, it is sad that you cannot exercise self-governance. as for islam pre-empting the possibility of attraction, then segregation is in itself half-baked best not have children at all cos one way or another you will still be attracted to someone, and what of lesbians what if they feel attracted how you gonna solve that one?, anyhows attraction is healthy and a part of life a person should embrace all things and live in the moment this is called living, this does not mean you act upon them when you love someone you can embrace that love and let it well-up in youre whole being, being imbued with such natural emotions is what makes us who we are, denying them is not abiding by the will of god, the purest one is one who shines like a radiant pearl whilst situated in the midst of filth, if you cannot do that, then you must live enslaved.:thankyou:
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Hey.


First of all, islam does not forbid love or attraction to a member of the opposite sex - but instead, it channels it in a way which is permissible so both parties can live in tranquility and peace.


Allaah Almighty says in the Qur'an:

He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts.) [30:21]


The way islam permits love is through marriage, and it is sunnah and a muslim gets rewarded for being kind to their spouse;


Allah's Apostle (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "You will be rewarded for whatever you spend for Allah's sake even if it were a morsel which you put in your wife's mouth." (Sahih Bukhari)

The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said: 'The most perfect Muslim in the matter of faith is one who has excellent behavior; and the best among you are those who behave best towards their wives" (Tirmidhi)


It is encouraged from the above evidences to love and treat your spouses in the best way you can, and the reason why islam doesn't allow pre-marital relationships is due to the fact that they are insecure, the children who are born out of wedlock may not i.e. have a father to lookafter them, and instead of living an animal lifestyle - marriage is a bond which makes both parties feel secure.


Islam does allow contact between both parties before a marriage takes place, so both parties can meet each other and see if the other person is attractive, although this does have its limits i.e. their has to be a guardian for the female when both parties are in contact, and they can discuss what they would like in the future, and see if their personalities compliment each other etc.

If they agree, the marriage can take place.

Read More: The Relationship between the Engaged Couple
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...h-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543584


Islam doesn't permit gay/lesbian acts, and it is a fact that this is not a natural attraction due to the fact that Allaah Almighty forbids it. That is sufficent for us as a proof.



Peace.
 
Re: LI Forums your opinions

ISDhillon said:
this must happen only in isalm because normally in society people interact and are quite responsible when acting upon their feelings, it is sad that you cannot exercise self-governance. as for islam pre-empting the possibility of attraction, then segregation is in itself half-baked best not have children at all cos one way or another you will still be attracted to someone, and what of lesbians what if they feel attracted how you gonna solve that one?, anyhows attraction is healthy and a part of life a person should embrace all things and live in the moment this is called living, this does not mean you act upon them when you love someone you can embrace that love and let it well-up in youre whole being, being imbued with such natural emotions is what makes us who we are, denying them is not abiding by the will of god, the purest one is one who shines like a radiant pearl whilst situated in the midst of filth, if you cannot do that, then you must live enslaved.:thankyou:
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You may call it enslaved or oppression, of self-ignorance because of the fact that we are so vigilant over our feelings, but in Islam this is a complete way of life.

The things that we are forbidden to do always have a strong moral behind them. Anything sinful that we do, is accounted on our deeds.

If Allah(saw) tells us not to have sex before marriage, then what are we going to do, let our emotions take over us and ignore what he said? I mean..we would obviously be hypocrites!

The lame excuse that we are enslaved that we don't have the so-called freedom is such a false impression that even muslim women themselves decide to defend themselves to the maximum.

How are we as muslims are so ever enslaved if we continue to follow what Allah(swt) has told us to do?

If we are enslaved..we surely have the option to convert into another religion don't you think?

If we are so oppressed..you wouldn't see a muslim woman wearing niquab for her own sake in the name of protection. As a a matter of fact, ask any niquabi you see why they wear niquab for? They will not tell you they are enslaved they will tell you its for the sake of protection hence a moral right.
 
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Re: LI Forums your opinions

"The lame excuse that we are enslaved that we don't have the so-called freedom is such a false impression that even muslim women themselves decide to defend themselves to the maximum."
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is there an epidemic of female molestation that i am unaware of?, is there a seedy underground which is waiting to pounce upon muslim women so that they purposely go to hell?

How are we as muslims are so ever enslaved if we continue to follow what Allah(swt) has told us to do?
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when any man comes under the weight of ANY law then they are no longer in charge of their destiny, god takes full account of the thought not just the action, if you let the thought play out within then you will be able to move on, but if you prevent the thought in the first place then you are escaping a part of you which is inherent to being a human, and yes i believe that wrapping yourself in cotton wool is a form of slavery even if you are lead to believe it is for your protection. I used to be a part of amnesty international and for all the islami laws in iran to protect women, women are still one of the greatest number of criminals who are hanged for killing men because theydid not resist rape. Now i am sure youll find some fancy way to wriggle out of this fact but remember that when you shovel rape stats about the western world , they can easily be wriggled out of aswell. Simple fact: face each challenge as it comes, this world is a battlefield and women are expected to fight an equal battle not hide in a bunker.

If we are enslaved..we surely have the option to convert into another religion don't you think?
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no cos i dont believe islam is as how you are brought up to believe it is, initially all religions start of the same and then because of feudalism, patriarchy and mysogynistic leaders the message goes astray. I bet if more women in isalm started to assert themselves in society as active equal participants men would initially be ashamed but ultimately consider updating their religious praxis.


If we are so oppressed..you wouldn't see a muslim woman wearing niquab for her own sake in the name of protection. As a a matter of fact, ask any niquabi you see why they wear niquab for? They will not tell you they are enslaved they will tell you its for the sake of protection hence a moral right
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i never said you were opressed i believe islamic women are too subservient to men and the older women are equally aggressive to younger women because of the fear of men, i think muslim women should make an example of of macho men more this is the only way they can regain leadership and respect amongst all women in the ummah, once one is liberated that one will liberate many more. I dont believe all this stuff about muslim women wearing niqab for protection i think its sometimes a political message especially in the west, go to pakistan and you wouldnt think it was an islamic country, also its become cool and trendy to wear muslim fashion even non-muslims do it there even fashion cat-wals which i think is a good thing.

When i used to work in an office I used to always go to nandos with a muslim girl and she was a devout muslim she never had a problem yeah the blokes used to talk behing her back cos we used to go together but I and she and the staff at nandos all knew that nothing went on, just gossiping muslim men are trouble causers cos they got sad lives. well some of them anyways.:giggling:

Gurfateh:thankyou:

ISDhillon
 
Re: LI Forums your opinions

ISDhillon said:
is there an epidemic of female molestation that i am unaware of?, is there a seedy underground which is waiting to pounce upon muslim women so that they purposely go to hell?
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:peace:
A woman gets raped every minute in america....
:peace:
 
Re: LI Forums your opinions

Hi F sabililah:thankyou:


“First of all, islam does not forbid love or attraction to a member of the opposite sex - but instead, it channels it in a way which is permissible so both parties can live in tranquility and peace.”
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So does dating.


“Allaah Almighty says in the Qur'an:
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He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts.) [30:21]”
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with segregation of male and female.


“The way islam permits love is through marriage, and it is sunnah and a muslim gets rewarded for being kind to their spouse;
Click to expand...


Allah's Apostle (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "You will be rewarded for whatever you spend for Allah's sake even if it were a morsel which you put in your wife's mouth." (Sahih Bukhari)

The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said: 'The most perfect Muslim in the matter of faith is one who has excellent behavior; and the best among you are those who behave best towards their wives" (Tirmidhi)”
Click to expand...

Both of which have nothing to do with segration


“It is encouraged from the above evidences to love and treat your spouses in the best way you can, and the reason why islam doesn't allow pre-marital relationships is due to the fact that they are insecure, the children who are born out of wedlock may not i.e. have a father to lookafter them, and instead of living an animal lifestyle - marriage is a bond which makes both parties feel secure.”
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You havnt shown where islam forbids intermingling? You’ve told me about being kind to youre spouse that’s great but the threads about intermingling, please advise. living an animal lifestyle? - it doesnt happen in my family there are single parent mothers and their doing pretty well without their partners it depends on what youve had drummed into you growing up, if youve been told that you are unequipped then that teaching will have a sphere of influence on you no matter what you do in your life, especially when suggested with fire and brimstone.


“Islam does allow contact between both parties before a marriage takes place, so both parties can meet each other and see if the other person is attractive, although this does have its limits i.e. their has to be a guardian for the female when both parties are in contact, and they can discuss what they would like in the future, and see if their personalities compliment each other etc.”
Click to expand...

Prove it from koran



“Islam doesn't permit gay/lesbian acts, and it is a fact that this is not a natural attraction due to the fact that Allaah Almighty forbids it. That is sufficent for us as a proof.”
Click to expand...

But attraction still happens whether you approve it or not that’s the fact it doesn’t matter whether its forbidden.


ISDhillon:)
 
Re: LI Forums your opinions

You havnt shown where islam forbids intermingling? You’ve told me about being kind to youre spouse that’s great but the threads about intermingling, please advise. living an animal lifestyle? - it doesnt happen in my family there are single parent mothers and their doing pretty well without their partners it depends on what youve had drummed into you growing up, if youve been told that you are unequipped then that teaching will have a sphere of influence on you no matter what you do in your life, especially when suggested with fire and brimstone.
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Marriage is the ONLY legal way in islam for one to even mingle with the opposite sex.

Marriage is the only open channel to all muslim men and women for not only commitment, however, for different reasons.

So imagine if you had a girlfriend, you had sex with her and everything then what is the point of marriage?


Marriage is supposed to be a sacred ordeal no just some 2nd hand thing after a loose relationship with some person that you are not even related to.



But attraction still happens whether you approve it or not that’s the fact it doesn’t matter whether its forbidden.
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Its forbidden if you cross the boundary. Just b/c you may be attracted to a girl or guy doesn't give anyone the lame excuse to go on ahead and try to talk to her b/ the shaytaan is always always and ALWAYS the third party. :)
 
So, since sexual attraction isn t strictly between those of opposite genders, and segregation is the best way to prevent undue attraction, should we then be segregated from all non-relatives, regardless of gender? Also what should those who are intersexed do? What about those who happen to be androgynous (having the genitalia of one gender, but an ambiguous gender expression)? Methinks the Qur'anic approach is best: everybody, dress modestly, don't look with an intent that you can't lawfully make good on, and don't talk trash about other people. Good then, good today.
 
Re: LI Forums your opinions

:thankyou:
Halima said:
Marriage is the ONLY legal way in islam for one to even mingle with the opposite sex.
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show me this from koran

Marriage is the only open channel to all muslim men and women for not only commitment, however, for different reasons.
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thats great but has nothing to do with segregation, somewhere there is a misunderstanding i dont know whether you realise it.

So imagine if you had a girlfriend, you had sex with her and everything then what is the point of marriage?
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i dont believe in sex before marriage but again what does your question have to do with segregation, i respect your view on this but without proof how can you tell others its wrong?


Marriage is supposed to be a sacred ordeal no just some 2nd hand thing after a loose relationship with some person that you are not even related to.
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i agree, related? i dont believe in incest sorry,

Please show me where islam says two sexes cannot intermingle i need to see the word "intermingling"

thanks and no offence,

ISDhillon:thankyou:
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I couldnt be bothered to read all of it was very sporadic and not very well laid out but this one is good:

Moreover, Allah says: “Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them.” and says: “And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty.” [Sûrah al-Nûr: 30-31] This shows us how men and women are to conduct themselves.
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this is exactly what i am arguing for that women and men must both be on their guard, is this not a symbol of self-governance that your revelation asks for, that the battle of purity is fought daily within and you should fight the battle rather than take yourself out of the situation because then how can you get rewarded for a test you are not present for?

i hope you get me,

ISDhillon:)
 
Re: LI Forums your opinions

Halima said:
Why?

Well because there is no need for brothers to talk to sisters unless it is essential.


Now see, that is basically one of the reasons why super mods have the right to check the P.M's between brothers/sisters..to make sure everything goes in accordance to the Shariah law as sister Labibah has stated earlier.



Now if a sister for some reason perfers to give the message to a brother via a mod then by all means she is enable to do so.



Infact, this is one of the better choices then directly communicating to a brother, in my opinon.
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can you give a message through the mods? that's good..
 
ISDhillon said:
I couldnt be bothered to read all of it was very sporadic and not very well laid out but this one is good:



this is exactly what i am arguing for that women and men must both be on their guard, is this not a symbol of self-governance that your revelation asks for, that the battle of purity is fought daily within and you should fight the battle rather than take yourself out of the situation because then how can you get rewarded for a test you are not present for?

i hope you get me,

ISDhillon:)
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Salaam

You don't make sense one point your saying lower your gaze and then you say "Rather then take yourself out of the situation" Prevention is the best cure.
 
ISDhillon, I see what you're saying, but surely, if there is a danger of certain things happening in certain situations, the logical thing would be to avoid those situations, rather than seek them out?

Apologies if I've misunderstood.
 
Muezzin said:
ISDhillon, I see what you're saying, but surely, if there is a danger of certain things happening in certain situations, the logical thing would be to avoid those situations, rather than seek them out?

Apologies if I've misunderstood.
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but then you havnt taken the test to be "on guard", you have pre-empted the test so when allah asks you about youre morality your gonna say i didnt take the test i circumvented it, i believe if you are saying to live by gods will then you should throw yourself in the deep end and take on all lives challenges, because i feel like people see it that a women should not put herself in a position to be abused, however abuse is in itself is a grave assumption i cant stress that enough!!!! and if were completely honest is there a place anywhere in the world which has no intermingling. The same goes for those types of people who still feel attraction when seperated, they have to take the same test, no?

Have a nice day folks,:)

ISDhillon:thankyou:
 
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