MisConceptions of the Evil America

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If I feel it, I say it. I do not think defending Islam in my region, will do anything but cause violence. Their ya go.
i like it when people try manipulate the conversation onto something else, they just do me a favor and affirm my point. when were we talking about defending Islam in your region? i was speaking about (and assumed you were as well) as a whole.


trying to prove a point is different from doing something out of respect. the former is done for ones own good, whilst the latter is done for someone else own good.


When did I ever say it's pointless to defend the US?
Both are helpless causes to defend.
same thing...
 
i like it when people try manipulate the conversation onto something else, they just do me a favor and affirm my point. when were we talking about defending Islam in your region? i was speaking about (and assumed you were as well) as a whole.



trying to prove a point is different from doing something out of respect. the former is done for ones own good, whilst the latter is done for someone else own good.




same thing...

Actually that wasn't my intent, but thanks for knowing more about myself, then..myself :statisfie. Islam as a whole, what? I am really lost on this part.

Well, I guess I was doing the latter?

No, I am willing to defend the US, physically, and in debate, but debating here does nothing but get me rants. Same as debating Islam here, rants, and sometimes physical rants.
 
Actually that wasn't my intent, but thanks for knowing more about myself, then..myself :statisfie. Islam as a whole, what? I am really lost on this part.

Well, I guess I was doing the latter?

No, I am willing to defend the US, physically, and in debate, but debating here does nothing but get me rants. Same as debating Islam here, rants, and sometimes physical rants.

hmmm i quit. its pointless trying to get through people who refuse to see your points...*unsubscribes to the thread*
 
Amen to that, Guestfellow.

I believe that's the very point clover is trying to make!

I think people have become too defensive. :hmm:

I agree Clover does make a good point. It is not wise to make generalisations. It can corrupt your way of thinking and could lead to many undesirable consequences.
 
^Tell that to the non-Muslims. They make generalization about the Muslims, calling everyone terrorists and things like that and discriminations.
 
^Tell that to the non-Muslims. They make generalization about the Muslims, calling everyone terrorists and things like that and discriminations.

Asslamu Alikum.

Yes I'm aware how some non-Muslims are calling all Muslims terrorists and make generalization about us. However that does not mean we should do the same either. Nothing good comes out of making generalizations and stereotyping.
 
I think people in general are easy to deal with. Not inherently 'good' or 'bad', but rather willing to treat others respectfully if they are treated respectfully. If you're hostile, you're inviting hostility, regardless of nationality.

It's the attitude and actions of certain governments who I personally have a problem with.

^Tell that to the non-Muslims. They make generalization about the Muslims, calling everyone terrorists and things like that and discriminations.
Answering generalisations with generalisations doesn't really get anyone anywhere.
 
I think people in general are easy to deal with. Not inherently 'good' or 'bad', but rather willing to treat others respectfully if they are treated respectfully. If you're hostile, you're inviting hostility, regardless of nationality.

It's the attitude and actions of certain governments who I personally have a problem with.


Answering generalisations with generalisations doesn't really get anyone anywhere.


I noticed that too, and thought kinda redundant.

I wouldn't say governments, cause not everyone is the government is evil, probably a majority, but not all, I am sure.
 
I noticed that too, and thought kinda redundant.

I wouldn't say governments, cause not everyone is the government is evil, probably a majority, but not all, I am sure.
Not the governments themselves (i.e. not necessarily everybody in the organisation), but the behaviour of certain governments. It's not really about 'good' or 'evil' either - the behaviour I take issue to relates ultimately to greed.

Anyway, good idea for a thread.
 
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Not the governments themselves (i.e. not necessarily everybody in the organisation), but the behaviour of certain governments. It's not really about 'good' or 'evil' either - the behaviour I take issue to relates ultimately to greed.

Anyway, good idea for a thread.

Not really. I wish I hadn't made it. It is obvious a lot of people on here hate Americans in general, and making a topic did nothing but inspire them probably.
 
Not really. I wish I hadn't made it. It is obvious a lot of people on here hate Americans in general, and making a topic did nothing but inspire them probably.
I could clean up the thread if you like.

I think a thread entitled "misconceptions of so called Muslim countries" would be cool too. The government of Saudi Arabia has done things just as vile as America ever did, from torturing innocents to letting historical areas of Islam fall into disrepair while they squander money and interfere with their neighbors.

I know it's trendy to bash America (I'm fond doing so too) for it's glaring faults but let's start bashing the so called Muslim governments for their incompetence in living up to the Islamic ideal.

I'm just afraid of the Ummah dumping all the blame on foreigners. Sometimes, in our zeal to criticize the west, we're forgetting that we brought these conditions of tyranny and poverty on ourselves.

"Allah does not change a people's lot unless they change what is in their hearts." Quran 13:11

It is also helpful to remember what the Prophet pbuh said of us, the future Muslims.

Narrated Thawban: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The people will soon summon one another to attack you as people when eating invite others to share their dish. Someone asked: Will that be because of our small numbers at that time? He replied: No, you will be numerous at that time: but you will be scum and rubbish like that carried down by a torrent, and Allah will take fear of you from the breasts of your enemy and last enervation into your hearts. Someone asked: What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): He replied: Love of the world and dislike of death.

We are the light of the world, so let's act like it.
Very true. It's not healthy to blame all of the Ummah's problems on external forces as it were, because all of the Ummah's problems are clearly not caused solely by those external forces.
 
respect for the post - it must be pretty exhausting when you think about the subject matter. it takes a lot of strength to make concise points on such an emotive issue in a rational way - sometimes in the face of hostility.

at the end of the day anybody who considers issues in terms of un-american or non-muslim is on a hiding to nothing

as a famous idiot once said;

'there are only two types of people in the world - those who divide everything into two groups and those that don't'
 
Not really. I wish I hadn't made it. It is obvious a lot of people on here hate Americans in general, and making a topic did nothing but inspire them probably.

Well i dont think a lot of people here hate Americans. Its just the policy thing thats effecting other countries in a bad way, and i wouldnt want to go into it now :exhausted
 
Well i dont think a lot of people here hate Americans. Its just the policy thing thats effecting other countries in a bad way, and i wouldnt want to go into it now :exhausted
I agree that American foreign policy needs to change. But let us not mistakenly think of International Corporations as products of American government, they are just business trying to make a dollar, a yen, a franc, a mark, or whatever other currency they can bank. They may appear "American", but they are not they are simply capitalists and that is all they are. So, please don't confuse "American" business with American government; they are two different things and the first often takes advantage of and uses the second.

As to some of the policies that are the product of the government. Remember that the policies of our government are not forever. What one administration did another may chose to reverse. The last election was a vote by the American people for reversals in some areas and not in others. One of the things that it seesm to me that neither the world nor the American people want is for the USA to play big brother to the entire world. Now the reason that we do is because it wasn't that long ago when that is exactly what the world wanted, and not so enthusiastically we agreed, not because we wanted to but because we felt that it might be our duty seeing as how fortunate we understood that we were. It didn't always go well, and we made some mistakes along the way. Still, I think that over all we've done more good than harm.

We stopped Hitler and Japanese aggression in the middle of the last century, we led the world in the development of a middle class in most nations, overcame diseases like polio, kept starving countries alive, responded to world disasters, and bankrolled other countries to assist in building their own infrastructure.

I'm sorry we also invented and shared with people the TV, telephone and the movie projector leading the moral decline of many cultures -- but really I want to blame the Japanese for making these things so cheap that everyone can afford one. ;D

Seriously, we are far from perfect. Even in families big brothers have to let their smaller siblings grow-up and lead their own lives. We've gotten so enmeshed in some places that we have gone, that even though we may have arrived with the best of intentiones (and I know not all of the places we have gone have been with such good intent), what we are doing today is often not to anyone's benefit but some corporate greed. Still, I see what happens when we attempt to leave. We've created dependence and many places fail to stand when we pull out to hastily. So, leaving is a lot simpler in principle than it is in practice. Iraq would be a good case in point. No one wants us there. Not Americans, not Iraqis, not even our own military. But leaving seems to make things worse not better.

We are cursed today, and then tomorrow someone will be in need again and they will say, "You Americans, you are so well off, you should do something to help those who are less fortunate and don't have the wealth, or freedoms, or opportunities, or medical care, or education, or _______________ that you do. And because these thing are complicated and take both time and investment, 10 years from now we will still be there and it will again be lifted up that we are too involved in other people's countries.

So, we are cursed by people if we stay and cursed by people if we go. Either way we are cursed, and that is what it seems to mean to be an American in our world today.
 
I agree that American foreign policy needs to change. But let us not mistakenly think of International Corporations as products of American government, they are just business trying to make a dollar, a yen, a franc, a mark, or whatever other currency they can bank.
You mean a Euro. :)

That's my irreverant, near-irrelevant post of the day.
 
The Muslim world does blame a lot of problems on U.S. and Israel. But! Some problems ARE caused by them!

The 'Ummah' has a lot of problems they need to work out. I read an article online a few weeks back where communities in Yemen are blaming for the U.S. for their dwindling water supplies! It's not our fault!

Good points about americans Clover, also people need to realize that Muslims are not evil terrorists who want to shove ideology down people's throats. The truth is, they couldn't really care less, they just want to live their lives.

But, Muslims are guilty of generalizing and sterotyping americans and jews westerners too! Come on guys, we're all human, we live on this planet earth together. I don't want to see sterotyping from any sides.

I hope my little reply here made the reader realize that there is two sides to blame always in sterotypes.
 
What Muslims are angry about is the way israel bombs Palestine like its nobody's business and in the process kill a lot of people and then justify and get their pity from the countries such as america, who might have the power to stop this but unfortunately its still going on. This post does not have much to do with generalization, but its the truth.
 
What Muslims are angry about is the way israel bombs Palestine like its nobody's business and in the process kill a lot of people and then justify and get their pity from the countries such as america, who might have the power to stop this but unfortunately its still going on. This post does not have much to do with generalization, but its the truth.

Oh afg, I understand, I really want that to stop!

But I still think the muslim world should learn to solve problems for themselves or politely ask us for help in things. I get it about Israel but there is a lot of other issues.. And even though it's easy for me to say, if I was in power, I would try to help you all so we can have a more peaceful and co operative world.

By the way, just curious, are you from Afghanistan? I do not support U.S. occupation! They need to leave and commence nation building!

All the best.
 

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