Morality in western society

[Halima]

We grant the children the right to be children until they are old enough to make good choices themselves. Marriage is a serious matter, and children needs the time to grow up before becoming someones wife/husband. Here, it is also normal for girls to finnish their education before getting married.

You do know that the majority of kids in highschool has already had sex out of wedlock right? What causes this? I don't know. What are the consequences? HIV, Hepatitis, Herpes. A girl not only has to worry about about getting pregnant but she also has to worry about her life aswell! Of course, marriage is a serious matter but what the serious matter is when a girl does sex out of wedlock. I don't understand the western society. I girl cannot get married at nine years old but when a girl is 15 she can have sex. When the girl becomes 18 she is considered an adult. I am considered an adult but I wouldn't ever move out on my parents and try to prove to them that I can live on my own. you say it is normal for girls to finish their education before they get married then why do they have sex before they are married? Wouldn't that be the last think on this earth one would do after they are married? Today you have people preaching about why so many teen girls and boys have AIDS. Go figure! You have girls running around promiscuous (out of wed lock) have not even finished their education and they are waiting by chance to get pregnant. Is this what we have to wait for until reality slaps them on the face?

 

[Christian_dove]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

You do know that the majority of kids in highschool has already had sex out of wedlock right? What causes this? I don't know. What are the consequences? HIV, Hepatitis, Herpes. A girl not only has to worry about about getting pregnant but she also has to worry about her life aswell! Of course, marriage is a serious matter but what the serious matter is when a girl does sex out of wedlock. I don't understand the western society. I girl cannot get married at nine years old but when a girl is 15 she can have sex. When the girl becomes 18 she is considered an adult. I am considered an adult but I wouldn't ever move out on my parents and try to prove to them that I can live on my own. you say it is normal for girls to finish their education before they get married then why do they have sex before they are married? Wouldn't that be the last think on this earth one would do after they are married? Today you have people preaching about why so many teen girls and boys have AIDS. Go figure! You have girls running around promiscuous (out of wed lock) have not even finished their education and they are waiting by chance to get pregnant. Is this what we have to wait for until reality slaps them on the face?

There are very few people having Aids here, so I don't know where you got that idea... You have to remember that not having sex before marriage is something your religion teaches you, but not all people are religious.. We don't grow up with lots of laws and regulations, we are free to do what we please as long as we don't hurt others. Sex is an act that is considered joyful by many people, and some people enjoy it without taking the laws of the quoran or the bible into consideration at all. This is not forbidden. You seem to think that life in western world is only sinful, but this is not true. People are allowed to do as they wish, some are very religious and some are not. Is this bad? In my country polls have shown that more than 80 % of the population are very happy. We feel free, we can travel wherever we want, we have good social welfare systems to take care of sick/poor people, good wages, etc. The way you practise your religion is the way we did 100 years ago..

 

[Malsidabym]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

You do know that the majority of kids in highschool has already had sex out of wedlock right?

Are you sure of this? I went to school in a western country and yes many had sex, but not a majority. Most other faiths also teach that it is wrong to have sex out of wed-lock. Also, many people without religion still have high moral values and refrain until marriage. I think it may seem like 'most' because we notice the bahavior of people who "do" things more than people that don't.

 

[Halima]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

Brother Fi, no one is ignoring Ansar. I didn't mean to hijack the thread Brother Ansar. Sorry! :X


Peace.

There are very few people having Aids here, so I don't know where you got that idea... You have to remember that not having sex before marriage is something your religion teaches you, but not all people are religious.. We don't grow up with lots of laws and regulations, we are free to do what we please as long as we don't hurt others. Sex is an act that is considered joyful by many people, and some people enjoy it without taking the laws of the quoran or the bible into consideration at all.

It is only society that tells people what to do. For example, it is common that in a typical western society a father frowns/disowns his daughter once he finds out she becomes pregnant. In society she is generally looked down upon..by why does she do it anyways? In Islam..we will not only get disowed but this is punishable by death!

This is not forbidden. You seem to think that life in western world is only sinful, but this is not true. People are allowed to do as they wish, some are very religious and some are not. Is this bad? In my country polls have shown that more than 80 % of the population are very happy.

I dont think everything fully in the west is sinful. I live in the west if i think that then I myself would be sinning. I just think that the western society is too loose. Too many risk takers. Therefore one has to be street-smart. I myself am not street-smart. I am pampered by protective fathers/brothers that guide me bit by bit as I grow older.

We feel free, we can travel wherever we want, we have good social welfare systems to take care of sick/poor people, good wages, etc. The way you practise your religion is the way we did 100 years ago..

We have the same enjoyment you people have. Wether it be socially or traveling we get just as much fun as you there is no obstacle in our way o prevent us from having a good time like other people.

Are you sure of this? I went to school in a western country and yes many had sex, but not a majority. Most other faiths also teach that it is wrong to have sex out of wed-lock. Also, many people without religion still have high moral values and refrain until marriage. I think it may seem like 'most' because we notice the bahavior of people who "do" things more than people that don't.

Thousands of years ago a women's demeanor was far different from today. Today they are less conservative and quite seemingly more rebellious than ever. Thousands of years ago there were no such things as AIDS-and that reminds me about the Amish people. They are very secluded peopel with their lives isolated from today's modern society. I must say their lives are have alot of similarties with Islam. Father finding his daughter a husband..do agree that women have been alot less conservative then thousands of years ago?

 

[Malaikah]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

There are very few people having Aids here, so I don't know where you got that idea... You have to remember that not having sex before marriage is something your religion teaches you, but not all people are religious.. We don't grow up with lots of laws and regulations, we are free to do what we please as long as we don't hurt others. Sex is an act that is considered joyful by many people, and some people enjoy it without taking the laws of the quoran or the bible into consideration at all. This is not forbidden. You seem to think that life in western world is only sinful, but this is not true. People are allowed to do as they wish, some are very religious and some are not. Is this bad? In my country polls have shown that more than 80 % of the population are very happy. We feel free, we can travel wherever we want, we have good social welfare systems to take care of sick/poor people, good wages, etc. The way you practise your religion is the way we did 100 years ago..

Your opinion here is flawed since you ignore the negative effects that this has on society as a whole. Having free sex spread disease, it results with females falling pregnant (some times not knowing who the father is), and when she falls pregnant out side of wedlock, who is going to help her rasie the child? the fathers do not always recognise that the child is their own. Having such cheap moral standards brings corruption to the society, and also results with women neing veiwed more cheaply.

We feel free, we can travel wherever we want, we have good social welfare systems to take care of sick/poor people, good wages, etc. The way you practise your religion is the way we did 100 years ago..

you havent specified where you come from, but i know for fact that the US also has the highest rape rate. what freedom. your society sounds very superficial if that is the most important thing worth mentioning.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Re: Relations in the west

Thread split from the discussion on the young marriage of Aisha rd. If anyone has a more suitable title for this thread, feel free to suggest.

 

[HeiGou]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

you havent specified where you come from, but i know for fact that the US also has the highest rape rate. what freedom. your society sounds very superficial if that is the most important thing worth mentioning.

Actually that is not true. The US has a fairly low rape rate. What it has is many rapes. That is a different claim - the US has a large population. Of course it has many rapes. But as a percentage of the over all population, the rape rate is low. Compare it to South Africa.

It is hard to make comparisons. Muslim countries tend not to report crime figures at all. Even when they do, rape is not reported to the police. We know through surveys that domestic violence is high in Muslim countries. It is likely that rape rates are high too. Certainly Muslim countries have high risk factors. Many young men who are unmarried. Many young men who are unemployed. A culture that does not encourage reporting and hence low to neglible risk of conviction. A culture that blames women. A friend of my told me that Egyptian newspapers are full of reports of gang rapes that take place in Cairo - usually girls who are lured to empty apartments, but of course there are no convictions. You can see what you might describe as "pre-rape" behaviours in many Muslim countries - persistent overtly sexual harrassment of women who walk down the street for instance.

No culture is perfect. But at least the US tries to do something about it.

 

[mizan_aliashraf]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

There are very few people having Aids here, so I don't know where you got that idea... You have to remember that not having sex before marriage is something your religion teaches you, but not all people are religious.. We don't grow up with lots of laws and regulations, we are free to do what we please as long as we don't hurt others. Sex is an act that is considered joyful by many people, and some people enjoy it without taking the laws of the quoran or the bible into consideration at all. This is not forbidden. You seem to think that life in western world is only sinful, but this is not true. People are allowed to do as they wish, some are very religious and some are not. Is this bad? In my country polls have shown that more than 80 % of the population are very happy. We feel free, we can travel wherever we want, we have good social welfare systems to take care of sick/poor people, good wages, etc. The way you practise your religion is the way we did 100 years ago..

We are free to do as we please?

Exactly, you follow the desires of your soul. That is not like a christian - surely

 

[azim]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

I'm about to post off-topic (unless someone changes the name to "Western Society") so I apologise in advance.

We feel free, we can travel wherever we want, we have good social welfare systems to take care of sick/poor people, good wages, etc. The way you practise your religion is the way we did 100 years ago..

You talk of these things as if they are alien to Muslims.

Muslims put no restrictions on travelling, so I don't know where that comes into it.

Social Welfare was first instigated 1400 years ago by Abu Bakr, the FIRST ruler after the Prophet. It's a principal based on Quranic values and Islamic ideals - so yes, enjoy these fruits, but dont forget that Islam is the tree that bore them. (NB: The UK only established Social Welfare 50 years ago, and in America, Social Welfare is about as effective as the rhythm method).

Good wages - the only reason Muslims have bad wages is because they tend to live in countries exploited by Western capitalism. Islam demands giving fair dues to the worker and if you look at the examples of many Caliphates throughout history, this was quite rigourously enforced.

Peace.

 

[mahdisoldier19]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

Actually that is not true. The US has a fairly low rape rate. What it has is many rapes. That is a different claim - the US has a large population. Of course it has many rapes. But as a percentage of the over all population, the rape rate is low. Compare it to South Africa.

It is hard to make comparisons. Muslim countries tend not to report crime figures at all. Even when they do, rape is not reported to the police. We know through surveys that domestic violence is high in Muslim countries. It is likely that rape rates are high too. Certainly Muslim countries have high risk factors. Many young men who are unmarried. Many young men who are unemployed. A culture that does not encourage reporting and hence low to neglible risk of conviction. A culture that blames women. A friend of my told me that Egyptian newspapers are full of reports of gang rapes that take place in Cairo - usually girls who are lured to empty apartments, but of course there are no convictions. You can see what you might describe as "pre-rape" behaviours in many Muslim countries - persistent overtly sexual harrassment of women who walk down the street for instance.

No culture is perfect. But at least the US tries to do something about it.

Salam Alaikam,

Im Sorry you must be Mistaken

US Does have the highest Rape

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rap


Lets look at more Statistics First

#1 Rape USA : 89,110

#1 Total Crimes USA : 23, 677, 800

#1 Car Theft USA : 1,147,300

Oh Lets look at Burgalaries:

#1 On the list USA : 2,099,700

Lets Look at the country Last on the list

#55 Burgalaries Saudi Arabia : 11

On Wait a minute the guy Thinks Ya Know USA is not high In teen Pregnancy

Teen Pregnancy

# 1 USA 494,357

 

[Ghazi]

Salaam

Lets keep it cival

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

br. mahdisoldier

Im Sorry you must be the Most Ignorant and dumbest person on this board.

How much of an Idiot Are you?

These insults are uncalled for and against forum rule #9. Please refrain from resorting to such attacks. If you feel that someone else is likewise infringing forum rules, please use the 'report bad post' button.

 

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam Alaikam

I Apologize i get overheated when people spread falseness wont happen again

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I'm Sorry you must be the Most Ignorant and dumbest person on this board.

US Does have the highest Rape

How much of an Idiot Are you? I have to result to name calling because thats for the lowest of people that spread lies. 89,110 In USA

Lets look at more Statistics First

#1 Rape USA : 89,110

I don't know anything about this subject, but it's clear to me that name-calling is uncalled for.

I notice that the statistics you quote are for recorded crimes. Therefore, HeiGou's charge of unreported crimes still stands - unless you've got an answer for that, of course.

Peace

 

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam Alaikam

Well i have answer for everything friend these days

It is mentioned i take statistics courses, If anyone wants to debate on statistics, everyone knows That No statistic is Right. Some are nowhere Near right, and some are just blindly close.

For instance, In New york a group of people wanted to measure the amount of people that visit a mosque. So they went in and saw a few and thought well maybe if we times these people by 3, we could get an overall amount. So basically i dont expect these statistics to be soooo Accurate, but for a country as the USA. To be so highly civilized and technological advances. Im sure they can conjure up proper statistics. As for the unreported crimes. Thats all over the USA. If you noticed a few articles that were published most recently. A Man in Lauderdale FL. Was in prison and saw that out of the police cases he found his name to be booked in for crimes he never committed. And was never charged for or even mentioned to him by investigators.

Just because their Recorded crimes, does not intentionaly mean they're wrong. I dont want to contradict myself , what im trying to say is basically Statistics arent right sometimes and others they're not even close. But, im sure the USA has a strong statistics team working around the clock. As does the other rest of the world. Some statistics may be off some maybe completely off but to get an efficient judgement lets look at burglary. Why is it the highest in the USA and Seemingly to believe the Lowest in a country of Sharia Law SA? is the implentation of the law more civil than the constitution of the USA?

 

[czgibson]

Greetings mahdisoldier19,

I'm not questioning the validity of the US crime statistics, simply pointing out that you (still) haven't answered HeiGou's point about crimes going unreported in Middle Eastern countries.

Peace

 

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam Alaikam

And im stressing Crime goes un reported everywhere. There is no true way to count them all perfectly.

Peace and blessings upon you my friend

 

[azim]

Greetings mahdisoldier19,

I'm not questioning the validity of the US crime statistics, simply pointing out that you (still) haven't answered HeiGou's point about crimes going unreported in Middle Eastern countries.

Peace

A similar claim that unreported crimes occur in the US can be made - although I accept that it is a trend that poorer states usually report less crime for a number of reasons.

Although - India has a population of over 1 billion - it's reported rates are at 15,000.

America has a population of 250 million - it's reported rates stand at 90,000.

How much leeway do unreported rapes have? Not this large.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rap_percap

In the above link it shows rapes per capita. The US lies at position 9, most countries on that list above it are small, poor, lawless with severe troubles (with the exception of Canada and Austrailia).

The point is that these developed, so called civilised, countries often have major problems with regard to moral standards.

For example, in the New York blackout - 3 million crimes were commited in one night.

In other countries electricity shuts off periodically for hours on end, yet such furious crime spees don't occur.

 

[Smok]

salaam

The problem is that You as muslims watch this in different way. For people in western society it is not a problem if 17 years old girl has sex or 21 years girl has children and no husband. For You it is something terrible. For us it is normal.
So don't try to judge us using Your morality. We have absolutely different point of view. For people in Europe it is imposiible to punish woman who betrayed husband and had sex with other man. For You it is a crime.
So if You want to judge You have to understand european culture and point of view first.
Remember - it is our culture. If You don't like it - don't "use" it
It is something like these caricatures of Muhammad. In Europe most people can't understand why do You make so big problem because of that. And You can't understand why people printed it.

And one more thing. Don't believe in all numbers You found - numbers about rapes, crimes etc. Remember about so called "black number". This is number of crimes that were not reported to the police. In non western countries many people don't report rapes because of shame. More restrictive society has bigger "black number" of rapes.

maa salama

 

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam Alaikam

Well first i live In New York, USA. So i think i know about the culture. I dont know any parent that tells there children to have sex at 17. I dont see where its normal. I think your just assuming the wrong things which leads me to the conclusion that your not an adult. Offcourse its something terrible, If you know a person that enjoyed going through a divorce and being stuck with kids that i think that person has some serious issues. Thats my point of view, out of all the people i met that have had divorces, they hated every bit of it. Especially girls 21 who have children and expect to take care of them by themselves. Thats not Culture Thats Having sex without proper protection. i can go on and on and on i take courses in culture. its not part of the culture, but peoples ignorance.