Morality in western society

[shanu]

Woman has all rights to come out of abusive marriages. Islam never encourages a woman to live with a man who abuses her. She can go to court. I even once read a case, where a muslim woman filed a divorce against her abusive husband, and the court actually gave her the rights to punish him the way he abused her, so as to teach other abusive husbands a lesson. I really hope you would read some useful books next time. Another thing about divorce is inheritence

Right to Inheritance
Another right of the Muslim woman which is a part of Islamic law is the right to inherit property. The method of division of inheritance is clearly laid down in the Qur'an and the general rule is that man gets double. This may if taken in isolation from other legislation appear to be unfair; however, it must be remembered that in accordance with the verse of the Qur'an quoted earlier, men are charged with the maintenance of all the women and children in their family, and therefore their necessary obligations of expenditure are far higher than those of women. The half-share that a woman inherits may therefore be considered a generous one since it is for herself alone. Any such money or property which a woman owns or any business which she runs is entirely her own and her husband has no right to any of it.

So, please do some research. I am only being patient with you as my religion asks me to. So i hope you would return us the same respect. Peace on u!

 

[Anette]

Another right of the Muslim woman which is a part of Islamic law is the right to inherit property. The method of division of inheritance is clearly laid down in the Qur'an and the general rule is that man gets double.

Actually this is something we read about in our History class. It was from the Muslims the western woman got rights about ineherit poperty. Before that western women got nothing.

 

[azim]

Christian_dove: Your last post was very offensive and uncessarily dereogatory.

Yes, i have kids, do you? Do you know what a family is? If clutching to your mother until you are way above 30 waiting for her to find a cousin you can marry is your idea of an family I have no problem with that. I however, moved into my own apartment when I was 16. It was great!

That bit especially borderlines on racist and is well into prejudice.

I hope I don't have to read such bigoted comments again.

 

[shanu]

he is making fun of the indian concept.and worst most of his facts are fabricated. Its better than choosing any tom D!ck or harry n den divorcing him ;D. C'mon parents nowdays look at his background whether he can support us financially, and we get to look at the way he behaves to see if he suits our character. In this way both sides are happy? The duties of a child is to please their parent, no parent will want to see their child slip down the drain. We dont depend on our parents to get us married off CHRISTIAN DOVE, we arent that lame. We do it out of respcet as they have given much pain in bringing us to earth, and by giving them the honour in helping us choose da suitable partner we are respecting them and putting them in a special position.In other words we are showing that we have not 4gotten them just because we are grown up and independant, and we are trying to tell them that their decsions and opinions are still very much important to us We believe that we need blessings of our parents in every occasion whether its marriage or a birthday, its nt that we clutch to our parents as u have mentioned. we do it Out of love. U should watch more indian movies, and u see the grand weddings, and the happy tears in the parent's eye. Like they say the donkey never knows the smell of camphor. its an old indian saying ;D

 

[Christian_dove]

Christian_dove: Your last post was very offensive and uncessarily dereogatory.



That bit especially borderlines on racist and is well into prejudice.

I hope I don't have to read such bigoted comments again.

Racism? He he... My wife is african, I am white, our kids are mixed. You think I am a racist? That would surprise anyone who knows me.

 

[azim]

Racism? He he... My wife is african, I am white, our kids are mixed. You think I am a racist? That would surprise anyone who knows me.

It's borderline racist - you're making offensive comments on prejudiced (and innaccurate) views of another persons culture. It's definately bigoted, close to racist.

PS: Having a spouse of another race doesn't really prove a person doesn't hold prejudiced views btw - I'm sure you don't, however that argument never convinces me.

 

[Christian_dove]

he is making fun of the indian concept.and worst most of his facts are fabricated. Its better than choosing any tom D!ck or harry n den divorcing him ;D. C'mon parents nowdays look at his background whether he can support us financially, and we get to look at the way he behaves to see if he suits our character. In this way both sides are happy? The duties of a child is to please their parent, no parent will want to see their child slip down the drain. We dont depend on our parents to get us married off CHRISTIAN DOVE, we arent that lame. We do it out of respcet as they have given much pain in bringing us to earth, and by giving them the honour in helping us choose da suitable partner we are respecting them and putting them in a special position.In other words we are showing that we have not 4gotten them just because we are grown up and independant, and we are trying to tell them that their decsions and opinions are still very much important to us We believe that we need blessings of our parents in every occasion whether its marriage or a birthday, its nt that we clutch to our parents as u have mentioned. we do it Out of love. U should watch more indian movies, and u see the grand weddings, and the happy tears in the parent's eye. Like they say the donkey never knows the smell of camphor. its an old indian saying ;D

I am not making fun of any "indian" concept, if you enjoy living the way you do, that is fine. And if you are a muslim, I doubt that you live the same way many other (non-muslim) Indians do. The thing I am making fun of (if anything... It wasn't my intention) would have to be the fact that you talk very(!) much about how sinfull we are and the way we live in my country and the west. And my guess is that you are pretty young and do not really know very much about our way of living, only what you have heard and perhaps read in newspapers. I may not know much of your way either, but at least I have been to many countries in Asia/South East Asia, and I also got to see some of the indian culture that is highly present in Trinidad & Tobago, in the caribbean. Good food! I think that the way you take care of your families is great. You do it better than us. But you have to understand that there are many reasons as to way we do things different from you, and why our families are not so close as yours. In your culture the children are a resource for any parents. It is (from what I know) normal that the children, after they grow up will take care of the elder/parents in the family, provide food, money etc, when they are to old too work. They are prepared to do this by their parents.

Here, when people are old, they get payed every moth even if they are no longer working. It's not much, but as many old people have allready what they need, house, car, etc, it's enough. They don't need their kids to provide with these things, not money, food, or anything, etc. And the health care is good, people live longer, they stay more healthy, not needing so much help. Etc. So the children grow more independent and free, knowing their parents have what they need, and they focus mostly on themselves and their education, etc.

Thats one reason we are not so close to our families. Me, living without my parents, I am glad. No way I want them to snoop around in my life, I like to spend my time with my kids, and it's nice when grandma and grandpa comes to visit. But to have them around me all the time? I would have gone nuts!

 

[Christian_dove]

Christian_dove: Your last post was very offensive and uncessarily dereogatory.



That bit especially borderlines on racist and is well into prejudice.

I hope I don't have to read such bigoted comments again.

That was not a racist remark. It was irony. I really hope you know the difference!

 

[Christian_dove]

It's borderline racist - you're making offensive comments on prejudiced (and innaccurate) views of another persons culture. It's definately bigoted, close to racist.

PS: Having a spouse of another race doesn't really prove a person doesn't hold prejudiced views btw - I'm sure you don't, however that argument never convinces me.

Prejudiced? Me?? Did you actually read her post at all??? How about these, what would you call them? Opinions!???:

The life in america is really very weird. Isnt it?

Spending time with ur family is such a burden that people choose holidays and feel that it is enough.

Do you know what a family is? Or r u too one of the victims that never got a chance to learn what is a family.

A family is a respnsiblity. Why is it so difficult 4 u americans to be with kids?

 

[HeiGou]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

Im Sorry you must be Mistaken

US Does have the highest Rape

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rap

How much of an Idiot Are you? I have to result to name calling because thats for the lowest of people that spread lies. 89,110 In USA

Well however much of an idiot I am I am not such an idiot I confuse the number of rapes with the rape rate. As I specifically and clearly said, the United States has many rapes. It has a large population. What it has is a relatively lowly rape rate. I am not mistaken.

Lets look at more Statistics First

#1 Rape USA : 89,110

Sure. Now compare with the Rapes per capita (ie the rape rate)

#1 South Africa 1.19538 per 1,000 people
#2 Seychelles 0.788294 per 1,000 people
#3 Australia 0.777999 per 1,000 people
#4 Montserrat 0.749384 per 1,000 people
#5 Canada 0.733089 per 1,000 people
#6 Jamaica 0.476608 per 1,000 people
#7 Zimbabwe 0.457775 per 1,000 people
#8 Dominica 0.34768 per 1,000 people
#9 United States 0.301318 per 1,000 people

As I said, the United States has a fairly low rape rate.

#1 Total Crimes USA : 23, 677, 800

Again, big population. Let's look at the rate.

#1 Dominica 113.822 per 1,000 people
#2 New Zealand 105.881 per 1,000 people
#3 Finland 101.526 per 1,000 people
#4 Denmark 92.8277 per 1,000 people
#5 Chile 88.226 per 1,000 people
#6 United Kingdom 85.5517 per 1,000 people
#7 Montserrat 80.3982 per 1,000 people
#8 United States 80.0645 per 1,000 people
#9 Netherlands 79.5779 per 1,000 people
#10 South Africa 77.1862 per 1,000 people

Not so bad. I am surprised by Finland. And this data is from 1998-2000. The crime rate in the US has been dropping rapidly for years now.

#1 Car Theft USA : 1,147,300

#1 Australia 6.92354 per 1,000 people
#2 Denmark 5.92839 per 1,000 people
#3 United Kingdom 5.6054 per 1,000 people
#4 New Zealand 5.45031 per 1,000 people
#5 Norway 5.08143 per 1,000 people
#6 France 4.9713 per 1,000 people
#7 Canada 4.88547 per 1,000 people
#8 Italy 4.19755 per 1,000 people
#9 United States 3.8795 per 1,000 people
#10 Ireland 3.69796 per 1,000 people

Oh Lets look at Burgalaries:

#1 On the list USA : 2,099,700

And look where the US is on a per capita basis

#1 Australia 21.7454 per 1,000 people
#2 Dominica 18.7892 per 1,000 people
#3 Denmark 18.3299 per 1,000 people
#4 Estonia 17.4576 per 1,000 people
#5 Finland 16.7697 per 1,000 people
#6 New Zealand 16.2763 per 1,000 people
#7 United Kingdom 13.8321 per 1,000 people
#8 Poland 9.46071 per 1,000 people
#9 Canada 8.94425 per 1,000 people
#10 South Africa 8.89764 per 1,000 people
#11 Montserrat 8.24323 per 1,000 people
#12 Iceland 8.11156 per 1,000 people
#13 Switzerland 8.06303 per 1,000 people
#14 Slovenia 7.93734 per 1,000 people
#15 Czech Republic 7.24841 per 1,000 people
#16 Hungary 7.15849 per 1,000 people
#17 United States 7.09996 per 1,000 people
#18 France 6.11634 per 1,000 people
#19 Ireland 5.73755 per 1,000 people

Lets Look at the country Last on the list

#55 Burgalaries Saudi Arabia : 11

Saudi Arabia is incapable of producing accurate figures. These are meaningless.

On Wait a minute the guy Thinks Ya Know USA is not high In teen Pregnancy

Teen Pregnancy

# 1 USA 494,357

What is wrong with teen pregnanacy?

 

[azim]

Prejudiced? Me?? Did you actually read her post at all??? How about these, what would you call them? Opinions!???:

None of what she said was a direct attack on you. Your comments were offensive, bigoted and unecessary. It was obvious you were quite worked up in the post so I'm sure it wasn't a representation of your actual beliefs but the comments you made were still more offensive than anything anyone has said in this discussion so far.

 

[azim]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

Saudi Arabia is incapable of producing accurate figures. These are meaningless.

Crime and rape is very low in Saudi Arabia. All because you don't want to accept such information doesn't mean you can simply pass it off as untrue.

 

[HeiGou]

Well first i live In New York, USA. So i think i know about the culture. I dont know any parent that tells there children to have sex at 17. I dont see where its normal.

The irony is that this site is full of threads about girls who have sex at 17. Or younger. Of course they tend to do so within the bounds of a proper Islamic marriage.

 

[Ghazi]

The irony is that this site is full of threads about girls who have sex at 17. Or younger. Of course they tend to do so within the bounds of a proper Islamic marriage.

Salaam

Care to give links to these threads.

 

[shanu]

The thing I am making fun of (if anything... It wasn't my intention) would have to be the fact that you talk very(!) much about how sinfull we are and the way we live in my country and the west

Actually i didnt say that u guys are sinful, and i didnt rant and rave abt it. I was just pointing out facts. I was just pointing how alien our concept is to urs thats all. Whether ur sinful or not is up to god. Im not that young lol, in fact am old enough. Marrying a person from a another race doesnt prove that u arent prejudiced, its the way you talk and think abt a another race or group that shows whether ur a racist or not. Talking abt racism, im marrying a palestinian, their culture is alien to mine, yet i embrace their way of thinking whther i like it or not. Not all the fingers in our hand is the same, just like that different cultures just act different. So we have to accept them in order to have peace and harmony. If you like our food, i'll mail u some

 

[mahdisoldier19]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

Well however much of an idiot I am I am not such an idiot I confuse the number of rapes with the rape rate. As I specifically and clearly said, the United States has many rapes. It has a large population. What it has is a relatively lowly rape rate. I am not mistaken.



Sure. Now compare with the Rapes per capita (ie the rape rate)

#1 South Africa 1.19538 per 1,000 people
#2 Seychelles 0.788294 per 1,000 people
#3 Australia 0.777999 per 1,000 people
#4 Montserrat 0.749384 per 1,000 people
#5 Canada 0.733089 per 1,000 people
#6 Jamaica 0.476608 per 1,000 people
#7 Zimbabwe 0.457775 per 1,000 people
#8 Dominica 0.34768 per 1,000 people
#9 United States 0.301318 per 1,000 people

As I said, the United States has a fairly low rape rate.



Again, big population. Let's look at the rate.

#1 Dominica 113.822 per 1,000 people
#2 New Zealand 105.881 per 1,000 people
#3 Finland 101.526 per 1,000 people
#4 Denmark 92.8277 per 1,000 people
#5 Chile 88.226 per 1,000 people
#6 United Kingdom 85.5517 per 1,000 people
#7 Montserrat 80.3982 per 1,000 people
#8 United States 80.0645 per 1,000 people
#9 Netherlands 79.5779 per 1,000 people
#10 South Africa 77.1862 per 1,000 people

Not so bad. I am surprised by Finland. And this data is from 1998-2000. The crime rate in the US has been dropping rapidly for years now.



#1 Australia 6.92354 per 1,000 people
#2 Denmark 5.92839 per 1,000 people
#3 United Kingdom 5.6054 per 1,000 people
#4 New Zealand 5.45031 per 1,000 people
#5 Norway 5.08143 per 1,000 people
#6 France 4.9713 per 1,000 people
#7 Canada 4.88547 per 1,000 people
#8 Italy 4.19755 per 1,000 people
#9 United States 3.8795 per 1,000 people
#10 Ireland 3.69796 per 1,000 people



And look where the US is on a per capita basis

#1 Australia 21.7454 per 1,000 people
#2 Dominica 18.7892 per 1,000 people
#3 Denmark 18.3299 per 1,000 people
#4 Estonia 17.4576 per 1,000 people
#5 Finland 16.7697 per 1,000 people
#6 New Zealand 16.2763 per 1,000 people
#7 United Kingdom 13.8321 per 1,000 people
#8 Poland 9.46071 per 1,000 people
#9 Canada 8.94425 per 1,000 people
#10 South Africa 8.89764 per 1,000 people
#11 Montserrat 8.24323 per 1,000 people
#12 Iceland 8.11156 per 1,000 people
#13 Switzerland 8.06303 per 1,000 people
#14 Slovenia 7.93734 per 1,000 people
#15 Czech Republic 7.24841 per 1,000 people
#16 Hungary 7.15849 per 1,000 people
#17 United States 7.09996 per 1,000 people
#18 France 6.11634 per 1,000 people
#19 Ireland 5.73755 per 1,000 people



Saudi Arabia is incapable of producing accurate figures. These are meaningless.



What is wrong with teen pregnanacy?

Well out of all those statistics, Not one country Is under Sharia Law

thats point number 1

Point number 2, i meant the United States as a whole

Point number 3, if you do it by capita offcourse youll achieve different results, some areas are much safer than others

Point number 4, I see the united states atleast on the top 10, and at 1 at the top 20. Where do i see a Sharia law country on that list?

 

[HeiGou]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

Well out of all those statistics, Not one country Is under Sharia Law

thats point number 1

1. Point me to any country that is under Sharia law.

2. Point me to any country that is under Sharia law that produces decent statistics.

As I said, the problem with virtually all Third World countries is that their statistics are useless. There is an especially serious problem with some countries that also treat crime figures as national secrets. All the Muslim majority countries I can think of fall into one or both categories.

Point number 2, i meant the United States as a whole

A rate is a rate is a rate. It does not matter if it is applied to the US as a whole.

Point number 3, if you do it by capita offcourse youll achieve different results, some areas are much safer than others

Well no. If you do it per capita you will find out how many crimes are committed per person in the US - it is the raw figure divided by the over all population to give an average. Otherwise how can you compare a big country like the US with a small one like Bermuda?

Point number 4, I see the united states atleast on the top 10, and at 1 at the top 20. Where do i see a Sharia law country on that list?

Again you have the basic problem, which I pointed out in the original post, of lack of proper reporting. I am happy to admit that it is likely most Sharia law countries suffer lower rates of some crimes - murder and drug offenses for example. Theft too probably. But we do not know for sure. It is also likely that they suffer higher rates of some other crimes other crimes. Honor killings for example. And rape given how hard it is to prove in most Sharia systems. But we do not know that for sure either.

 

[mahdisoldier19]

Re: The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

1. Point me to any country that is under Sharia law.

2. Point me to any country that is under Sharia law that produces decent statistics.

As I said, the problem with virtually all Third World countries is that their statistics are useless. There is an especially serious problem with some countries that also treat crime figures as national secrets. All the Muslim majority countries I can think of fall into one or both categories.



A rate is a rate is a rate. It does not matter if it is applied to the US as a whole.



Well no. If you do it per capita you will find out how many crimes are committed per person in the US - it is the raw figure divided by the over all population to give an average. Otherwise how can you compare a big country like the US with a small one like Bermuda?



Again you have the basic problem, which I pointed out in the original post, of lack of proper reporting. I am happy to admit that it is likely most Sharia law countries suffer lower rates of some crimes - murder and drug offenses for example. Theft too probably. But we do not know for sure. It is also likely that they suffer higher rates of some other crimes other crimes. Honor killings for example. And rape given how hard it is to prove in most Sharia systems. But we do not know that for sure either.

First of all, what do you know about proper statistics taking?

 

[sargon]

I'm from America and most people have the same morals as any other person. The thing that's lacking is fear of "Getting caught" maybe. I don't know what to say about the country I'm from but a few things that is hard for any westerner to understand would be stoning for example.

I'm pretty sure that people in the West would say shariah laws are barbaric, and Muslims say that the Western culture is materialistic and "godless" perhaps.

 

[shanu]

Are u chinese muslim? I heard there 1 million chinese in China, is it true?