Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

[Muezzin]

Discussions like this all depend on whether one has faith in the source material. If you do, fair enough. If you don't, also fair enough, but don't expect to be able to convert people who do.

 

[Umar001]

You can say the same about Christianity and Hinduism or Buddhism - all three being bigger (or at least similar sized) religions as Islam. In fact you do say something like that about Christianity. Why would Paul devote so much of his life to turning people around? An imposter would not have lived all those years in poverty - hell, Paul even got executed for it. Where did all those Christians come from if Paul was an imposter - significantly more Christians than Muslims I might point out. Who turned them around? Where did all those Christian theological text come from? You see my point?

Couldnt have taken the text outa my fingers more beautifully.


Anyhow, moving on I still see it illogical.

 

[HeiGou]

Discussions like this all depend on whether one has faith in the source material. If you do, fair enough. If you don't, also fair enough, but don't expect to be able to convert people who do.

If that was addressed at me, I am not trying to convert anyone. I was asked directly.

 

[Muezzin]

If that was addressed at me, I am not trying to convert anyone. I was asked directly.

It wasn't addressed to anybody in particular, but rather was a comment on these kinds of discussions as a whole. My apologies if I caused any confusion.

 

[Abu Omar]

But it is possible that visions might be caused by illnesses and injuries.

Wouldn't that mean that it is hallucination? In either way, don't you think that it falls into #3, i.e the option that he thought he was a Prophet but he was mistaken?

 

[Umar001]

I think so

 

[bint_muhammed]

nice. I thought name calling wasn't allowed here. And "your..." is wrong. It should read "you're" , a contraction of "you are". And I'm ignorant?

i didn't mean it in a nasty way, i meant that you aren't as familier (i don't think) with the religion! and i was in a rush ok!

 

[Syed Nizam]

Hmm, it's surprising. Since when did the burden of proof falls on us? We believe in Muhammad (pbuh) as the rightly guided prophet of God that have been send to all mankind. If someone said that he is inspired by the Devil, let him prove it FIRST! If he cant proove it, then I would very much preferrred him to at least keep his BIG mouth shut.

Peace...

 

[Hussein radi]

Heigou, pual did made alot of mistakes thru his journy, like when he changed the bible. However, Prophet Muhammed (SAW) never made any mistakes about his message, not the Quran nor his hadith. surely Prophet Muhhamed(PBUH) would of made many mistakes of he was an imposter. And end up executed like our friend Pual.

I fined it funny how one man who is claimed to be (so many things) can make such a holy book and can predict so many hadith with out any mistakes. isnt it essies to believe that Allah(SW) guided him thru his message? Like all the other prophets? what makes him different from all the other prophets?:rollseyes

Could they all be insane? :heated:

 

[Umar001]

Hmm, it's surprising. Since when did the burden of proof falls on us? We believe in Muhammad (pbuh) as the rightly guided prophet of God that have been send to all mankind. If someone said that he is inspired by the Devil, let him prove it FIRST! If he cant proove it, then I would very much preferrred him to at least keep his BIG mouth shut.

Peace...

If you believe in MOhammed being a messenger of G-d, and a person who believes this tells people about it.

Then it is that person who must prove it, because he is telling people 'Mohammed was a messenger of G-d' and if he is asked 'what makes you think he werent decieved by the Devil' then the person who is tleling people about MOhammed should answer!

 

[Syed Nizam]

If you believe in MOhammed being a messenger of G-d, and a person who believes this tells people about it.

Then it is that person who must prove it, because he is telling people 'Mohammed was a messenger of G-d' and if he is asked 'what makes you think he werent decieved by the Devil' then the person who is tleling people about MOhammed should answer!

Have anyone ever got a chance to actually see God Himself? Nope! But, people still believes in the existence of God.
Have anyone ever got a chance to actually see the Devil himself? Nope! But, people still believes in the existence of the Devil.
Have anyone ever got a chance to actually see heaven & hell? Nope! But, people still believes in the existence of heaven & hell.
Have anyone knows about life after death? Nobody have ever comes back from the dead and pronounce to us that there is indeed a life after death! Nope, but people still believes in the life after death.

All of these are a matter of preference of faith. Why must the burden of proof have to lie down with the muslims? If someone wants to make a mockery of Muhammad(pbuh) are deceived by the Devil, so let it be! I personally couldn't care less. The fact remains Muhammad (pbuh) is the one and only successfull person both on the religious & secular level. Not only he provide for the well being of the people, he provide them with a social organisation which people feel relatively secured and he provide them with one set of belief. No other person come even closed to him.

The truth can only be seek by the seekers of truth. Our roles is only in conveying the message. The rest is up to them and up to the Grace of God Almighty.

Peace...

 

[Hussein radi]

Very nice reply.

 

[HeiGou]

Hmm, it's surprising. Since when did the burden of proof falls on us? We believe in Muhammad (pbuh) as the rightly guided prophet of God that have been send to all mankind. If someone said that he is inspired by the Devil, let him prove it FIRST! If he cant proove it, then I would very much preferrred him to at least keep his BIG mouth shut.

There are several things worth saying to this. Of course the burden of proof does not fall on Muslims to justify what they believe - even to themsevles. If they are content to believe what they believe without thinking about it, no one would say they are not justified in doing so. However if you're going to try to convert people peacefully, you will need to explain to the satisfaction of the people you are trying to convert. That is, if you want me to believe that Muhammed was inspired by God you will have to produce an argument that convinces me - the burden of proof in that case is on you. I expect that proof in a formal sense is not available in either case, in which case the sensible thing in my opinion would be to keep an open mind. Either way it is wrong to be gratuitously offensive about anyone's religious beliefs so I agree with you on the last issue. But having said all of that, the world has changed and Muslims cannot force Christians and Jews and Hindus to be silent as they could when they were Dhimmis. They have access to the internet and often live outside the Muslim world. Robert Spencer, for example, comes from a Dhimmi family. You will have to deal with people who do not agree with you at some point or other, or you will have to close down all the satellite TV dishes, all the long wave radios, all the internet cafes and retreat into an extreme form of isolationism. Which would you prefer?

 

[Syed Nizam]

There are several things worth saying to this. Of course the burden of proof does not fall on Muslims to justify what they believe - even to themsevles. If they are content to believe what they believe without thinking about it, no one would say they are not justified in doing so. However if you're going to try to convert people peacefully, you will need to explain to the satisfaction of the people you are trying to convert. That is, if you want me to believe that Muhammed was inspired by God you will have to produce an argument that convinces me - the burden of proof in that case is on you. I expect that proof in a formal sense is not available in either case, in which case the sensible thing in my opinion would be to keep an open mind. Either way it is wrong to be gratuitously offensive about anyone's religious beliefs so I agree with you on the last issue. But having said all of that, the world has changed and Muslims cannot force Christians and Jews and Hindus to be silent as they could when they were Dhimmis. They have access to the internet and often live outside the Muslim world. Robert Spencer, for example, comes from a Dhimmi family. You will have to deal with people who do not agree with you at some point or other, or you will have to close down all the satellite TV dishes, all the long wave radios, all the internet cafes and retreat into an extreme form of isolationism. Which would you prefer?

First of all, contrary to the belief, the muslims are not even trying to convert anybody. Their role is just to deliver the message. That's all. God explicitly says in the Quran:

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " (Qur'an 2:256)

We are here in this forum only to learn from each other. Not to believe in anything. Afterall, God has bestowed reason and intellect on mankind, it is their own duty to use it to seek for the truth. In your case for example, you have heard about Islam and your immediate choice ito engage in this forum. To engage in this forum or not, is entirely up to you. Nobody ever forced you to make such a choice. To some extent, the message of Islam is conveyed in the same manners.

Peace...

 

[Umar001]

Have anyone ever got a chance to actually see God Himself? Nope! But, people still believes in the existence of God.

Why do you believe in G-d??

Have anyone ever got a chance to actually see the Devil himself? Nope! But, people still believes in the existence of the Devil.

Why do you believe in the Devil??

Have anyone ever got a chance to actually see heaven & hell? Nope! But, people still believes in the existence of heaven & hell.

Why do you believe in heave and hell??

Have anyone knows about life after death? Nobody have ever comes back from the dead and pronounce to us that there is indeed a life after death! Nope, but people still believes in the life after death.

Why Do you believe in life after death??

All of these are a matter of preference of faith. Why must the burden of proof have to lie down with the muslims?

What makes someone prefer a faith over the other?

You see a Muslim should know why they are Muslim over other faiths, why is it that your Muslim and not Christian.

It is illogical to think that G-d would send a religion without providing some distiction in it, so that His true seekers can distinguish it from other faiths.

This is why Mohammed peace be upon him, was given Miracles, so that the people shall believe, it Mohammed was to just say, 'I am a prophet from G-d' and he had no miracles then the people would have no reason to follow him, but it was through the mercy of Almighty G-d that miracles came so that people would know the truth if they wanted to, and it is the same with the other Prophets, peace be upon them.

So if G-d gave prophets miracles in order to support them, then wouldnt it be logical for you to call the people to islam and mention those same miracles??

If someone wants to make a mockery of Muhammad(pbuh) are deceived by the Devil, so let it be! I personally couldn't care less.

If Allah goes out of his way to tell the people in the Quran that Mohammed is not possed by demons and that Mohammed does not speak of his own will. Is it not right for us as Muslims to relate this to the people, instaed of 'not caring'

16:125 YUSUFALI: Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.

The best we can do is this, respond to them the way Almighty G-d responded to the people, He supported Mohammed with Miracles and so on, the least we can do is show the people those miracles.

But I agree, that:

28:56 YUSUFALI: It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance.


Salam Aleykum, I hope you can be patient with me, and forgive me if I have misunderstood your text in any way.

 

[Syed Nizam]

It is illogical to think that G-d would send a religion without providing some distiction in it, so that His true seekers can distinguish it from other faiths.

Agreed. That's why the Quran was revealed to the whole mankind.

This is why Mohammed peace be upon him, was given Miracles, so that the people shall believe, it Mohammed was to just say, 'I am a prophet from G-d' and he had no miracles then the people would have no reason to follow him, but it was through the mercy of Almighty G-d that miracles came so that people would know the truth if they wanted to, and it is the same with the other Prophets, peace be upon them.

So if G-d gave prophets miracles in order to support them, then wouldnt it be logical for you to call the people to islam and mention those same miracles?

Not Agree. As u can see, people who choose to make a mockery of Islam will go to great length to achieve that. Miracles is not a pre-equisite of someone to have faith. Look what have happened to Jesus (pbuh) who is worshipped by the mass just for performing miracles. So, what's the point of having miracles anyway?

But I agree, that:
28:56 YUSUFALI: It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance.

Agreed. My point exactly! Our tasks is only to deliver the message, to invite them to Islam. That's all. The other is up to them. To believe or not to believe. To seek further for the truth or not to seek. Everything is up to the individual himself, including us, muslims.

Salam Aleykum, I hope you can be patient with me, and forgive me if I have misunderstood your text in any way.

No problem there. We are here only to learn & to know of each other.....

Peace...

 

[Umar001]

Agreed. That's why the Quran was revealed to the whole mankind.

And we should explain what we know of it!

Mohammed, peace be upon him, didnt jus recite it and not explain it, he explained it. So similarly what we know we should explain of it and show people the miracles included in the quran.

Not Agree. As u can see, people who choose to make a mockery of Islam will go to great length to achieve that. Miracles is not a pre-equisite of someone to have faith. Look what have happened to Jesus (pbuh) who is worshipped by the mass just for performing miracles. So, what's the point of having miracles anyway?

Of course there will always be people who will not believe, but why did G-d support the prophets with miracles?? Look at the Miracles of the splitting of the moon, when the arabs asked for a miracle and then one was given, it was a sign from Almighty G-d, whether they believed it or not then was their problem, but we should as Muhammed did, show the miracles as proof.
If people turn it around and start worshipin mohammed because of that then it is only their fault, not the fault of the prophet or us or Allah.

And Jesus isnt worshiped because of his miracles if that were so the people of the OT would be worshipped too.

Agreed. My point exactly! Our tasks is only to deliver the message, to invite them to Islam. That's all. The other is up to them. To believe or not to believe. To seek further for the truth or not to seek. Everything is up to the individual himself, including us, muslims.

Yep deliver it, but as the other quote also says in a way that is best we both agree on that.

Not jus give people quran but explain stuff and show them the proofs.

Peace...

Salam aleykum wa rhametula wa berekatu

 

[sonz]

i'd bet my life he was an imposter. the whole story is absolutely preposterous. There is only blind faith to support such a myth. If I told you that the angel Gabriel visited me and mumbled "god's" will to me I would be taken to the nearest nut-hut.

salama

if u think our prophet was an "imposter" (astagfirulah) then why DO U SAY THAT UR MUSLIM IN UR SETTINGS???

i hate nonmuslims who pretend to be muslims

 

[sameer]

salama

if u think our prophet was an "imposter" (astagfirulah) then why DO U SAY THAT UR MUSLIM IN UR SETTINGS???

i hate nonmuslims who pretend to be muslims

i was thinking the same thing

 

[sameer]

I find it strange that christians may say that the prophet (saw) was an imposter and inspired by a demon or satan, especially when the Quran and his sayings speaks so highly of the earlier prophets that were sent to the same chiristians and Jews. Muslims can claim the same about their prophets, but we dare not do it beacue of the fact that some of them are mentioned in the same Quran.
If the Quran was from a man inspired by satan... why would the Quran re-emphasized the messages that the earlier prophets brought?