ardianto
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Yahya Cholil Staquf is known as liberal figure. In one interview with German newspaper he said that terrorists and Islam are closely related.
Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques
- Thread starter CuriousonTruth
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CuriousonTruth
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So what? White constantly attack other ideologies and cultures under free speech, if your fragile egos can't handle criticism, you need to take a better look at yourself, because your people are not some kindergarten children that we will have to babysit you because of your "feelings" and mental fragilities and insecurities.
You people don't seem to mind other people when you attack their culture, their way of life, their religion. You don't seem to be bothered that the cultures and religions of other race find their way to your comedy shows, where you denigrate, defile them till you had enough.
So give me a break. "Mommy, that black guy called me a racist, wahhh! Send him away mommy, send him away!"
That is the exact behaviour of a highly priviliged person who has never faced a real challenge or criticism and so he wants that criticism to go away and disappear like a child in kindergarten.
Grow a thicker skin or cry or do whatever I don't care.
It is hilarious you turn around and pretend as if this is just a new problem created by the muzzlum immigrants. First the Anglo-Saxon germanics used to discriminate the Italians, Irish, Slavic, then the blacks, Chinese, then the Indians, then the Arabs, finally the muzzlums.
White nationalism is a reaction to the success of East Asians, India, Turkey, etc. Europe doesn't hold the same sway as they did in the 20th century, so white people feel their control over the world is slipping away, so they advocate for return of the same policies of the 20th century that got them so much of their successes in the first place.
"Would it be racist for a Muslim living in Cairo to become concerned if a militant Christian was elected mayor of the city? Would it be racist for Muslims to worry about the sudden appearance of Christian churches in which sermons were given denouncing the people of other faiths as sub-human infidels, and urging violence against them?"
Funny thing you mention Cairo of all places. Really would it be "racist" if a muslim is concerned about the pro-Christian dictator Al-Sis who has the direct backing of Coptic christians who is putting muslims in torture in prisons while happily celebrating christmas with coptics.
Let me tell you what it would be - it be would "religious extremism", "terrorism", "backward 7th century mentality" (i presume all these terminologies are familiar to you because European say this to conservative muslims all the time). Even standing up for our indigenous culture and identity like Uighur, Moros, Rohigya is viewed as extremism and is met with relentless brutality.
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And given how much White nationalists emphasize on patriotism, they sure do absolutely hate non-European leaders who protect their own cultures. I remember how angry white people were, literally tearing their hair away when the coup in Turkey failed, it was glorious to seem to seething in rage. It was also a friendly reminder to us, that things like democracy are absolte BS to you, it's either your way or the high way.
I mean even if Erdogan wasn't a great muslim leader, I would love him because he makes Europeans so angry just by his presence, it's a slight throwback to the good old days of the Ottoman empire, even if in the slightest. 100% of white nationalists without exception hate Erdogan, China, Duterte, etc because they are all independent leaders who do not submit to white power.
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2016/07/dutch-mps-welcome-turkish-coup-failure/
[FONT="]Geert Wilders, leader of the anti-Islam PVV, approved of the army’s action. ‘I hope Erdogans islamofascist regime is finished. The sooner the better,’ he said earlier in the evening on Twitter.[/FONT]
So you want total, and unquestioned submission of non-European countries.
Islam doesn't have a problem with the sort of nationalists you're describing except that we'll just teach them that it's still wrong as one should embrace their fellow man as we're all equal and one human race.
I'm basically talking about the mainstream far right parties in the West who, if compared to Islam like you did, cannot be compared to Islam and only their terrorists compared to isis as their ideologies itself is extremist. So you can compare them to an extremist Islamic sect and their terrorists to ISIS
CuriousonTruth
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That is part of the problem. Nazis were not white nationalists, they were German supremacists whose main casualties were other white people.
I have no problem with that. You people can kill each other till the day of judgement.
White nationalists however far, far more dangerous than anything Mr. Hitler could pull out.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TInCVr1Nfc4
If it's a white nationalist like you describe, who just wants a separate part of the country to just live with his white folks and doesn't hate on others then free speech for him is fine, however the average white nationalist these days includes a lot of hatemongering and indirect violence inciting towards Muslims and this sort of speech is against the law:
laws in England and Wales are found in several statutes. Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, gender identity, or sexual orientation is forbidden.[1][2][3][4] Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden.[5] The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.[6]
Ref: Wikipedia
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Let me tell you who this white nationalist is. He was banned from a forum I am on for saying that he hates jews. I am a jew and I defended his right to free speech. I protested his ban and got him unbanned from the forum. Then I was able to explain to him that the problem is Judaism, not jews as a race. Today we are friends which is why we are working on this video together.
Hate speech laws are insane. Instead of allowing open discussion, they just drive hate underground where it can only expressed by violence. Europe deserves violence (from both sides) because of its insane hate speech laws. Free speech is the only way for people in conflict to resolve their differences without violence.
But most of the racists are too far gone to be rehabilitated and so their hate speech only contributes to spreading hate and not the 'identify, discuss and rehabilitate' scenario which may happen rarely.
Also rare successful rehabilitations is not worth the misery and distress it causes the wider communities and the number of lives lost in the terrorism it ultimately leads to
Rehabilitations can be done anyway as most of them are too extreme to be cowed into shutting up with this law, and by promulgating refutations of extremism on social media. in this way we kill 2 birds with 1 stone, deter and punish hatemongers and rehabilitate some of them too
PS: this law has been put there by the Jews infact
. The 'Government behind the governments' 
(,see some of AbdullahAziz's posts on here) so the Jews recognise the serious threat that allowing free hate speech poses in terms of a potential nazi comeback so I'm surprised that you don't?
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Where did you get this opinion? Well really, I don't need to ask because I know. You were brainwashed by propaganda. You probably never had a serious conversation with a white nationalist in your life.But most of the racists are too far gone to be rehabilitated and so their hate speech only contributes to spreading hate and not the 'identify, discuss and rehabilitate' scenario which may happen rarely.
Also rare successful rehabilitations is not worth the misery and distress it causes the wider communities and the number of lives lost in the terrorism it ultimately leads to
Rehabilitations can be done anyway as most of them are too extreme to be cowed into shutting up with this law, and by promulgating refutations of extremism on social media. in this way we kill 2 birds with 1 stone, deter and punish hatemongers and rehabilitate some of them too
Jews? Now you are the racist. It isn't Jews, it is Judaism. Do you know why I hate Judaism? I hate Judaism because Judaism caused the Holocaust in which most of my family died. To be fair, I assign about 90% of the blame to Judaism and about 10% of the blame to the Nazis.PS: this law has been put there by the Jews infact
Judaism hates free speech because it is based on telling lies to the stupid goyim, people like you who will do what they want. Free speech risks exposing their lies. Judaism thrives on corruption, on buying off politicians and using the banking system to screw the people. This works for while until the system goes bankrupt and then the people revolt. This is how the Nazis came to power. And this could well happen again. The Talmudic strategy is the cause of Nazism. Of course it is in the interest of Judaism to have white nationalists and Muslims fight each other. You are doing exactly what they want. If Muslims don't wake up, the next far-right movement in Europe may well slaughter both Jews and Muslims. But if Muslims do wake up and cooperate with white nationalists, then Judaism can be peacefully expelled and then everyone else can live in peace.
Salaam
I agree there is an unhealthy obsession with 'hate speech' and 'phobias'. Im not a free speech fanatic (im for civilised discourse) but the more and more restrictions you place on speech and behaviour is going to create a pressure cooker enviroment, which will eventually explode, sooner or later. We have to have upfront and honest discussions if were ever going to get ourselves out of this predicament.
Bro, I understand the anger and unfairness but we have to be more constructive, your generalising too much (eg. you have to distinguish between rulers and the ruled), point scoring against each other isnt going to get us anywhere.
Playing the victimhood card isnt going to get us anywhere in the longterm.
I agree there is an unhealthy obsession with 'hate speech' and 'phobias'. Im not a free speech fanatic (im for civilised discourse) but the more and more restrictions you place on speech and behaviour is going to create a pressure cooker enviroment, which will eventually explode, sooner or later. We have to have upfront and honest discussions if were ever going to get ourselves out of this predicament.
Bro, I understand the anger and unfairness but we have to be more constructive, your generalising too much (eg. you have to distinguish between rulers and the ruled), point scoring against each other isnt going to get us anywhere.
Playing the victimhood card isnt going to get us anywhere in the longterm.
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CuriousonTruth
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Their rulers are actually better than them, I doubt the world would be a better place if it was ruled by "Nuke Mecca" mobs. Good about the elites ruling the West is that they don't want to nuke random places just because their egos were strained.
Look these people vote for someone like Wilders and parties like AfD who have no policies other than ranting against Islam, they follow 'personalities' like Sam Harris who call for 'nuking' Mecca.
We must understand that these people are not normal people, their is nothing normal about the absolute mindless destructive, mass-murdering mentality of these people. Several civilizations have been made extinct by these people. Are you sure you want to be next?
There comes a point of 'survival', I don't want islam to follow the same path as the Native americans, Aboriginals, etc.
I think we need to take a step back and analyze this situation from above, and realize what is happening
EVERY ethnic and religious group has their own self-interest, projects, and prejudices/assumptions. This is normal human behavior that has been true since the founding of city states.
Problems arise when one group tries to claim moral supremacy and claim that they act out of a rational desire for the betterment of mankind. In other words, they assert that their ideology and interests are superior to others. Likewise, further problems arise then the interests of some groups are ignored in order to placate others.
An example would be the situation in Israel. Zionist Jews claim that they are the enlightened ones who have a divine claim to the Holy Land. They tell us this isn't some racial or political thing, but rather that they really are singled out by God to own that piece of real estate. Likewise, they claim victim-status because of events from 70 years ago, and insist on "hate speech" laws as a way to control criticism against them.
Note: I specifically mean Zionist Jews here --there are Jews that are harsh critics of Israel
Another example would be the hypocrisy of *some* Arabs in regards to the situation in Europe. They claim that things like multiculturalism and tolerance are good things, and that these things should be embraced. They ask for accommodation from these European countries, but those same Arabs would insist that non-Muslims living in places like Saudi Arabia, Oman, or Pakistan, be subject to special taxes, and be prevented from participating in the political life of the country (forbidden to vote, etc.). So we see here that these Arabs want equal rights for themselves, but not for others, since they are acting out of self-interest.
Another example would be the religious right in the American South, who think that they are the custodians of culture and religion, and who feel no need to extend tolerance or accommodation to others.
The Japanese see no need to embrace multiculturalism at all, and limit who can come into their country. Outsiders are viewed with suspicion.
Even among Muslims, Iranian Shia and Arab Sunni have been fighting for centuries, and these battles have not always been about religion--much of it is political, racial, and ideological.
So are we really going to say that only white Europeans seem to act out of racial self-interest? And that this needs to be condemned, as if everyone else isn't doing the same thing?
EVERY ethnic and religious group has their own self-interest, projects, and prejudices/assumptions. This is normal human behavior that has been true since the founding of city states.
Problems arise when one group tries to claim moral supremacy and claim that they act out of a rational desire for the betterment of mankind. In other words, they assert that their ideology and interests are superior to others. Likewise, further problems arise then the interests of some groups are ignored in order to placate others.
An example would be the situation in Israel. Zionist Jews claim that they are the enlightened ones who have a divine claim to the Holy Land. They tell us this isn't some racial or political thing, but rather that they really are singled out by God to own that piece of real estate. Likewise, they claim victim-status because of events from 70 years ago, and insist on "hate speech" laws as a way to control criticism against them.
Note: I specifically mean Zionist Jews here --there are Jews that are harsh critics of Israel
Another example would be the hypocrisy of *some* Arabs in regards to the situation in Europe. They claim that things like multiculturalism and tolerance are good things, and that these things should be embraced. They ask for accommodation from these European countries, but those same Arabs would insist that non-Muslims living in places like Saudi Arabia, Oman, or Pakistan, be subject to special taxes, and be prevented from participating in the political life of the country (forbidden to vote, etc.). So we see here that these Arabs want equal rights for themselves, but not for others, since they are acting out of self-interest.
Another example would be the religious right in the American South, who think that they are the custodians of culture and religion, and who feel no need to extend tolerance or accommodation to others.
The Japanese see no need to embrace multiculturalism at all, and limit who can come into their country. Outsiders are viewed with suspicion.
Even among Muslims, Iranian Shia and Arab Sunni have been fighting for centuries, and these battles have not always been about religion--much of it is political, racial, and ideological.
So are we really going to say that only white Europeans seem to act out of racial self-interest? And that this needs to be condemned, as if everyone else isn't doing the same thing?
ardianto
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There are many racist people too among Asians. But they do not organize themselves into organizations that make racism as ideology. Different than racists people among the White, which they established a number of organizations. KKK, in example. That's why when the world people talk about racism, they always pointing their fingers to White people.
The reason people associate racism with whites is because of the narrative that is put forth by our media, and we know who controls that
Imperial Japan viewed Chinese as inferior up until 1945. The invasion of Manchuria and the massacre of civilians reflected this.
In Africa, tribal warfare has sometimes taken on a racial character. The Hutus massacred the Tutsis and Pygmies, not only for political reasons, but because they thought those people were inferior (especially the Pygmies)
There is an entire Wikipedia article dealing with racism in Turkey --Armenians and others were considered dogs by the ruling majority. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Turkey#Against_Armenians
So other peoples absolutely organize themselves into groups that sometimes use race or ethnicity as a pretense for oppressing or killing others.
The Jews that run the media use the boogeyman of white racism to cover up their own ethno-state project and the systematic oppression of Palestinians. As long as racism is considered and exclusively white-European thing, no one pays attention to what is happening in Israel
CuriousonTruth
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Your lack of historical accuracy does not surprise me at all. So let's get the facts straight, following conquest of Persia, Arabs and Iranians have never had a major war till Iraq-Iran war.
The Sunni-Shia war, firstly was between Seljuk Turks (Sunni) and Arab Fatimid Caliphate(Shia). Then Shah Ismail (a Turkic shia) from Azerbaijan conquered Tabriz, Isfahan, etc and forced Persians to convert to shiaism. He also supported a shia turkic uprising in East Anatolia which was brutally crushed by Selim I. And this began a long war between Ottomans and Iranian Safavid empire. Nothing to do with arabs.
And as for your statement that all groups have racism, I should remind you both Ottoman and Abbasid empires were the most successful multicultural, multi-racial societies of all time. They certainly didn't have any race problem atleast until Young Turk revolution.
Although for aforementioned self-interest reasons, next time Muslims have a great civilization, please no tolerance to Europeans, Ottomans and Andalusians made a huge mistake tolerating those groups.
I can't believe you bring up Japan again, Japan committed atrocities in one part of their history, Europeans have been wrecking havoc since Alexander's conquests. I don't care if Japs are racist, as long as they don't harm other people. They can be as racist as they want in their island.
KSA is a kingdom, Pakistan is an "islamic" republic, Oman is a sultanate. Your countries are ones who styles themselves as the enlightened secular beacon of humanity, not those countries. So yeah, that's invalid comparasion.
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This is completely false though. A lot of people know exactly what is happening in Palestine, majority of Europeans, Americans, Russians and Indians support it because Israel is like their little baby(exception india). From religious perspective (only Evangelicals) Israel is seen as the herald of the coming of christ and if not that it is a symbol of Judeo-European supremacy. And if not that it is a bastion against Islam and is a great base of operation to keep Middle East in a state of perpetual chaos and complete control of the West.
The Europeans lost white baby states in South Africa and Rhodesia, they won't let Israel fall as well.
CuriousonTruth
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Okay this kind of things just really bother me when you say "oh all people are like this."
Let's look at some facts, when muslim or African countries pass legislation to protect their culture, such as passing anti-gay laws, I never see Korea, Japan and any other countries in the world that takes action except for the West. Their societies are also pro-gay, but they never embargo countries with anti-gay laws.
And Japan and Korea do not fund pro-gay organizations. In Bangladesh, homosexuality is crime but a USAID agent opened the first gay magazine here. They covertly organized a rally that had been strongly supported by US embassy, Norwegian embassy and th Goethe Institute of Germany.
Why only western countries and not Japan who covertly tries to destroy other people's culture?
I see no other country that so aggressively tries to force their culture on other countries except for the West.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27933051
https://www.euractiv.com/section/de...econsiders-uganda-aid-following-anti-gay-law/
Most of the active NGOs who are aggressively trying to secularize muslim countries are entirely exclusively funded by the west.
And I am not bringing up any history, or direct and proxy wars by the West. Just what they are doing covertly to destory other nations.
Do you see the problem here? Europeans can never learn to leave other people in peace, they never have and never will until they are defeated in war and their armies are destroyed like Ottomans and rashidun caliphate did. That is the only way for us to get peace.
On this thread and elsewhere you have said you hate Christians and westerners, and have implied violence against them
you do realize this feeds into the stereotype promoted by certain right-wing white nationalists and Zionists of Muslim men as hateful, dangerous, and ungracious? Your Khawarig rhetoric reflects the poison the swirls in the faith these days, and most Muslims do not hold such views.
There is a difference between objecting to American foreign policy and military intervention in the Middle-East (which I do all the time), and issuing a blanket condemnation of white people, and accusing them of all the crimes in history. White people are like other people--some are bad, some are good, and everyone has their prejudices and assumptions.
CuriousonTruth
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Didn't answer any of question or point I raised but ok.
Most muslims who don't atleast view Europeans as a threat (if not hate) to muslims are either secularized and barely follow religion, or they have "Stockholm syndrome", liberal evangelizers hoping to convert Europeans (lol), or just ignorant.
A threat? Seems like Muslims have a lot more to fear from their fellow Muslims as from Europeans
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/islami...0-deaths-worldwide-in-2017-a-new-report-says/
And if Muslims hate westerners as you say, why are many settling in western lands? The Muslims in my community enjoy a far higher standard of living than those living in Turkey. They also enjoy greater freedoms.