Muslims & Britain

[Discussor]

OK, this is a crude topic, but its not meant in ANY way to be offensive.

Its quite clear that many many Muslims on this site, and elsewhere, consider themselves a Muslim before being British. Issues affecting Muslims worldwide are of more importance than British issues to Muslims.

Many of you hold the fairytale dream that Britain will one day be a Muslim state, something which I can categorically confirm will never happen.

My question, meant in the most poilte way possible, why live in England if you feel no affiliation to the culture, the way of life or anything else?

Why not live in a Muslim country where you will be happier around fellow brothers and sisters.

That is not meant in an offensive way, it is a logical question.

 

[Salaam]

Salaam,

we consider ourselves to be Muslim before being British, like you consider yourselves being Male before being British...

Very Logical...


Religion is more Important to us...

 

[aamirsaab]

Hi.
One of the main reasons there are many muslims living in Britain is due to employment: let's face it, Britain has a higher minimum wage than pakistan .

I agree with you on the fact that Britain isn't likely to turn into an Islamic state but that's not why I live here . For me personally, its more economical and better in financial terms to live in Britain in my homeland pakistan. Additionally, education wise it's probably better too. This however doesnt mean that I don't visit my homeland - I ain't no coconut .

 

[afriend]

well actually, why do you always think that all the muslims say the same thing, I however never thought that Britain was going to ever be an Islamic state.

But what I don't understand is why do you hate muslims so much, if it wasn't for us.....well lets say many things would go wrong in this country.

 

[Umu 'Isa]

you know why a lot of muslims live in the west because countries like america and their allies went in and took over their country! where are they meant to go???
and the reason why we call ourselfs muslim before anything else is because islam we are all equal! it doesnt matter where you are from or what nationality you are

 

[Discussor]

Salaam,

we consider ourselves to be Muslim before being British, like you consider yourselves being Male before being British...

Very Logical...


Religion is more Important to us...

youve simply stated what i put. answer the question posed, or dont bother responding at all.

And I dont hate Muslims, I have Muslim family.

 

[afriend]

Well you have our answers.

 

[afriend2]

Salaam,

basically we can all agree that we call ourselves muslims first is because that is more important to us than to call ourselves british, bengali or whatever the nationality. in my books natinality isnt something on the top of my list of significance, whereas being a muslim is.

and i have never heard of this so-called fairytale of the uk being an Islamic state. has it even come across any muslims mind? :? or is it just some nightmare of those who fear muslims.

and just because we dont dress the same way as those in the uk, i choose to think of it as the MULTIcultural part of britain. i mean that is what members of parliament insist on right? ........and i like fish and chips as much as the next guy

and my parents came to england in the first place for a better way of life and the education is of a much higher standard. we arent going to move on account of someone saying we would be much happier in a muslim country, because the reality is, muslim countries have been targeted and some like palestine are in ruins.

wassalam

 

[Discussor]

Salaam,

basically we can all agree that we call ourselves muslims first is because that is more important to us than to call ourselves british, bengali or whatever the nationality. in my books natinality isnt something on the top of my list of significance, whereas being a muslim is.

and i have never heard of this so-called fairytale of the uk being an Islamic state. has it even come across any muslims mind? :? or is it just some nightmare of those who fear muslims.

and just because we dont dress the same way as those in the uk, i choose to think of it as the MULTIcultural part of britain. i mean that is what members of parliament insist on right? ........and i like fish and chips as much as the next guy

and my parents came to england in the first place for a better way of life and the education is of a much higher standard. we arent going to move on account of someone saying we would be much happier in a muslim country, because the reality is, muslim countries have been targeted and some like palestine are in ruins.

wassalam

Some great points.

I understand that your faith is more important to you than nationality.

I agree also that this is a free country and people can choose to follow any path they wish, as long as they are abiding with the laws of the land.

In reference to the Islamic state, that was somehting someone else raised in an earlier thread.

i personally would not like to see Muslims leave, of course not, sure, a minority on both sides of the fence behave stupidly, but in general id like to think that we can all get along as human beings.

:thumbs_up

 

[ummAbdillah]

salaam
most muslims in this country are law abiding people
and Islam matters more to us than anything

ma' salaam

 

[Mohsin]

Salam Discussor

My personal answer to this is why is it that i can't be a Muslim and British at the same time. It's not as if it's mutually exclusive
I live in cardiff, but if i lived in London, if i lived in Dublin, or Glasgow, or Paris, or Mecca, i would still be a muslim, regardless of where i live. So therefore i'm a muslim before i am British, just like you are a human before you are British,you're still a man regardless of whether you live in UK Holland France Italy US, right?
Now secondly although my parents are pakistani, i feel more comfortable living in the UK. For me whenever i go go Pakistan i can't speak the language, weather's not good, i don't like the food, everytime i go there i miss the UK, so doesn't that make me just as British as you
You say "we feel no affiliation to the culture, the way of life or anything else?" Now how do you know that. What do you mean exactly? What is the british way of life? Is it going out every Friday night and drinking yourself silly using up all the money you've earned during the week, acting like a fool talking rudely to people and vomitting in the street, and to top it all off you have a nice big hangover in the morning. Now please don't think i am insulting your way of life, because i'm not. It's exactly my point. I have a lot of Non-Muslim friends who think drinking is bad, and bad for society. If so many British people are not for drinking then surely being British isn't all about drinking. If it's about freedom of expression, as muslims we are all for freedom of expression, we had freedom of expression 1400 years ago, long before Britain did. But in our freedom of expression we have limits, theres a line you don't cross, like the cartoons made of our Prophet Muhammed SAW, that's not freedom of expression, thats ignorance. If it's about Fish and Chips i like my Fish and Chips as much as anyone else! So what is being British according to you?
By the way being from cardiff i support Wales in the rugby and football, that makes me as much welsh as them i suppose. No i don't drink at the games, but then again so do a lot of other welsh non-muslims
The reason i think a lot of muslims like living here is because a lot of morals here are similar to islamic morals, which unfortunately aren't being practiced in our own muslim countries, but they are here. We are free to practice our own religion here, but in islamic countries like Turkey you can't even read the morning Fajr prayer in the mosque! Imagine that in a muslim country we can't pray in the mosque! I can't remember the name of the scholar, but i heard this saying of his on Islam channel. This scholar from Egypt sailed to France. He stayed there for a while then went back to Egypt. He told the people how much he loved France. He said "Egypt is full of Muslims, but Egypt has no Islam. France has no muslims, but is full of Islam." Of course he was referring to morals etc. because obviously drinking etc is not allowed in islam.
Finally what about all the white revert brothers and sisters from UK, where should they go?

 

[Discussor]

Salam Discussor

My personal answer to this is why is it that i can't be a Muslim and British at the same time. It's not as if it's mutually exclusive
I live in cardiff, but if i lived in London, if i lived in Dublin, or Glasgow, or Paris, or Mecca, i would still be a muslim, regardless of where i live. So therefore i'm a muslim before i am British, just like you are a human before you are British,you're still a man regardless of whether you live in UK Holland France Italy US, right?
Now secondly although my parents are pakistani, i feel more comfortable living in the UK. For me whenever i go go Pakistan i can't speak the language, weather's not good, i don't like the food, everytime i go there i miss the UK, so doesn't that make me just as British as you
You say "we feel no affiliation to the culture, the way of life or anything else?" Now how do you know that. What do you mean exactly? What is the british way of life? Is it going out every Friday night and drinking yourself silly using up all the money you've earned during the week, acting like a fool talking rudely to people and vomitting in the street, and to top it all off you have a nice big hangover in the morning. Now please don't think i am insulting your way of life, because i'm not. It's exactly my point. I have a lot of Non-Muslim friends who think drinking is bad, and bad for society. If so many British people are not for drinking then surely being British isn't all about drinking. If it's about freedom of expression, as muslims we are all for freedom of expression, we had freedom of expression 1400 years ago, long before Britain did. But in our freedom of expression we have limits, theres a line you don't cross, like the cartoons made of our Prophet Muhammed SAW, that's not freedom of expression, thats ignorance. If it's about Fish and Chips i like my Fish and Chips as much as anyone else! So what is being British according to you?
By the way being from cardiff i support Wales in the rugby and football, that makes me as much welsh as them i suppose. No i don't drink at the games, but then again so do a lot of other welsh non-muslims
The reason i think a lot of muslims like living here is because a lot of morals here are similar to islamic morals, which unfortunately aren't being practiced in our own muslim countries, but they are here. We are free to practice our own religion here, but in islamic countries like Turkey you can't even read the morning Fajr prayer in the mosque! Imagine that in a muslim country we can't pray in the mosque! I can't remember the name of the scholar, but i heard this saying of his on Islam channel. This scholar from Egypt sailed to France. He stayed there for a while then went back to Egypt. He told the people how much he loved France. He said "Egypt is full of Muslims, but Egypt has no Islam. France has no muslims, but is full of Islam." Of course he was referring to morals etc. because obviously drinking etc is not allowed in islam.
Finally what about all the white revert brothers and sisters from UK, where should they go?

some great points, most of which make perfect sense.

Again, dont take this as me questioning 'Ethic' Muslims, when i said about Muslims in Britain preferring to live in Muslim countries I also meant white muslims. And if they were happier living in a Muslim country, why not go there? Im not saying 'LEAVE', im saying if these people genuinely felt they would be HAPPIER in a muslim country.

Try to understand what im saying without taking offence to a perfectly logical argument.

 

[Discussor]

Salam Discussor
What do you mean exactly? What is the british way of life? Is it going out every Friday night and drinking yourself silly using up all the money you've earned during the week, acting like a fool talking rudely to people and vomitting in the street, and to top it all off you have a nice big hangover in the morning. Now please don't think i am insulting your way of life, because i'm not. It's exactly my point. I have a lot of Non-Muslim friends who think drinking is bad, and bad for society.QUOTE]

This point I disagree with. You have to be very careful how you word things, because again, youre taking the extreme example. Alchohol is NOT bad for society. Lager is a fine recipe, a unique part of history and heritage, with some recipes hundreds of years old.

There are thousands of different variations, each with its own unique taste and smell.

Drinking sensibly is not harmful, noone forces anybody to drink like a lunatic, and not every person who enjoys a fine Ale is a yob, much like not every Muslim is a suicide bomber..please refrain from the very behaviour of steretyping that you and I hate so much.

:thumbs_up

 

[n3man]

i dont know mate. think about it, would it be hard for u to leave a well established lifestyle and move to a country where u have to start all over again, which u dont even know when its gonna be the next target of america. u dont know how it feels everyday of our lives. salaam

 

[Mohsin]

I won't sterotype, i don't think i was anyway. i was asking is that what British is, since that is the argument a lot of non-muslims would say to me, you don't live by my values, you should come and get p****d this friday night and see how much you enjoy it. I was asking if that is what you think is British values, i actually said in my post by the way that a lot of non-muslims don't act like that
Besides, to your question as to why i live here, i would like to say i belive Islam to be the truth, and God has tested all of us on earth in different ways and then we will be judged on the day of judgement. The first test for non-muslims in this life is to see if they revert to islam or not, if they reject the simple truth of the Qur'an and it's unchanged teachings. For us muslims we have to propogate the truth to non-muslims and invite them to the truth. Not only has God made it obligitory on muslims to invite non-muslims to Islam, but we also get great reward from God for this, so you can say that is one reason why i am here, for da'wah
Secondly even if i am to leave, there are still a lot of muslims living in the UK. If i was to live here i could help muslims etc by building mosques, muslim schools etc. and again get reward for this(Inshallah)
Again, like i said before, UK provides us with a perfect to place to live in feedom, which a lot of muslim countries don't provide. don't forget a lot of muslim countries do tend to be poor and have poor education and so other people for that reason may wish to stay here

 

[Nasir_bhai]

I have to agree with this.simple and to the point

 

[Nasir_bhai]

Salaam,

we consider ourselves to be Muslim before being British, like you consider yourselves being Male before being British...

Very Logical...


Religion is more Important to us...

I agree to this...simple and to the point

 

[fluff]

I think one of the main issues that has provoked this thread is the fact there is a lot about UK culture which is offensive to Islam, and some factions are trying to change UK culture to fit muslims.
In my experience, a lot of Muslims find this attitude just as patronising as everyone else.

it's 'when in rome..' syndrome :X

 

[minaz]

My question, meant in the most poilte way possible, why live in England if you feel no affiliation to the culture, the way of life or anything else?

Well it all depends on what you mean by culture mate. I mean for sure I think it should be compulsory for anyone entering this country to speak some degree of English (unless special assylum whereby they are here because of endangourment). Also I think some effort should be made in "mignling" with non-muslims, not such that they one adopts certain traits, but to be more open about Islam- not giving the impression that it's a closed religion. I hope you stay on this forum for a good period of time and understand the great benefits of Islam.
Regarding the issue of Britain ebcomign an Islamic state, well I don't think we'll see a Muslim King or Queen! However I do believe in say 40years time or so the number one religion in this country will be Islam. Even at this moment in time its second, but the Christian population (no offence) is not as practising as the muslims, that muslims are more active in religion.
Anywho, I'd never live in a country where i'd only do so to gain eductaion/economic needs. You have to love your home, you have to love your community (muslim and non-muslim), you have to love your religion too.

 

[Discussor]

Well it all depends on what you mean by culture mate. I mean for sure I think it should be compulsory for anyone entering this country to speak some degree of English (unless special assylum whereby they are here because of endangourment). Also I think some effort should be made in "mignling" with non-muslims, not such that they one adopts certain traits, but to be more open about Islam- not giving the impression that it's a closed religion. I hope you stay on this forum for a good period of time and understand the great benefits of Islam.
Regarding the issue of Britain ebcomign an Islamic state, well I don't think we'll see a Muslim King or Queen! However I do believe in say 40years time or so the number one religion in this country will be Islam. Even at this moment in time its second, but the Christian population (no offence) is not as practising as the muslims, that muslims are more active in religion.
Anywho, I'd never live in a country where i'd only do so to gain eductaion/economic needs. You have to love your home, you have to love your community (muslim and non-muslim), you have to love your religion too.

I disagree that Islam will be the dominant religion. While your average joe in the street isnt a good example of Christianity there are many many millions who are very thorough and practising.

I dont have any preconceptions about Islam, but to be honest I think any faith which teaches people to have self respect, love towards others etc has benefits, be it Islam, Christianity, Judaism...etc

I have to say I have MAXIMUM respect for you though mate, you seem a good lad!

:thumbs_up