Muslims converting to Christianity

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Aaron85 said:
Geez, actually i think that it is very strange and amazing that in nowadays godless Europe there are some muslims (even a handful) who want to embrace the religion of those who almost dont practice it at all.
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U talkin' 'bout america? :?
 
NoName55 said:
^^ Its profitable innit! and a way to gain approval too
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As far as Europe is concerned converting/reverting to atheism/agnosticism/secularism is a better way to gain approval than becoming a christian. You don't get a free bike, however...
 
Whatsthepoint said:
As far as Europe is concerned converting/reverting to atheism/agnosticism/secularism is a better way to gain approval than becoming a christian. You don't get a free bike, however...
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In old europa many are "converting" to mc-dirt ... :uuh:
 
Whatsthepoint said:
As far as Europe is concerned converting/reverting to atheism/agnosticism/secularism is a better way to gain approval than becoming a christian. You don't get a free bike, however...
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In England you don't get bikes but priority council housing + learn to scrounge off social security too and extra police protection if you can lie good enough to convince them that you are in danger from Muslims. read more >> http://www.islamicboard.com/search.php?do=finduser&userid=10595&searchthreadid=50226
 
Whatsthepoint said:
As far as Europe is concerned converting/reverting to atheism/agnosticism/secularism is a better way to gain approval than becoming a christian. You don't get a free bike, however...
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Sadly, I have to agree.

Being a Christian (at least here in the UK) is perceived as being somewhat 'uncool'.
Whe I became a Christian I remember a friend (who is into new-agey stuff) saying to me 'What do you want to believe in that for??? It's sooo old-fashioned!' :giggling:

I receive a certain amount of disapproval on account of my faith - ranging from gentle mocking to open hostile criticism ... although most people will just politely not mention my faith.

Peace
 
NoName55 said:
can you translate it so I can understand it too?
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OK, I guess I gotta explain this. A guy I know, he's orthodox Christian said something like this: nowadays people changed their church, their sunday activities, they left the church to find another one: mcdonald's shopping centres, etc. Basically he's thinking that shopping centres are new churches. I kinda have to agree with him, it's only that people don't have intention of worshiping when they visit all those wow-give-me-ur-money shops.

Not so long ago, Christians in my country used to have their family sunday lunch together in their homes, now they do that (some of them, perhaps most of them?) in mcdonald's and similar.
 
glo said:
Sadly, I have to agree.

Being a Christian (at least here in the UK) is perceived as being somewhat 'uncool'.
Whe I became a Christian I remember a friend (who is into new-agey stuff) saying to me 'What do you want to believe in that for??? It's sooo old-fashioned!' :giggling:=
Peace
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yup I can relate to that....I remember 20 years ago when I came to UK from Ireland - it was quite normal for me to talk about God a lot but I quickly learned it was a no-no. People would be like :eek: she's talkin about GOD help she is a NUTTER lol. and now of course in my hijab they think I'm a double nutter with bells on....

peace
 
Are you a Christian/Muslim if you "convert" but then don't abide by that religions beliefs/rules?

Many people, for social or security reasons (among others) convert but their lifestyle or beliefs aren't in the least bit affected and since religion is beliefs how would you count such conversions:confused:
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:giggling:
 
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ummzayd said:
and if I do that do you have a brief answer for me?
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No, not brief; I've never been accused of giving to "brief" of an answer. But I did say "we" take the discussion, so I wil join you.

Ummzayd, you strike me as one who asks questions seeking to be informed, so I don't mind that you presently and may always disagree with me and with all of Christianity. But if you do, I just want you to disagree with the things we really believe and teach, rather than the things that people sometimes erroneously believe are true of about Christianity. So for those who are seeking the truth, I will spend all the time that it takes to share it as I see it, even though you may never agree with me as to what we see.
 
czgibson said:
MadeenJibreel said:
Talking about love, mercy, things like that. Do you think they were created? They exist, no doubt about that. They were not only created, they were shaped out, designed to suit the needs of the living creatures. Somebody must have created them in the first place.
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Greetings,

Love and mercy are human concepts, invented by humans to denote certain emotional states. They have no external reality.

Just like god, in fact, from my point of view.

There's a pattern to it. Somebody must have designed that too. Things don't come up on their own,
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You believe god did, though, don't you?

Peace
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I find it interesting that so many speak of love merely as an emotion. When that is the case, love is really just a descriptor for what one feels, it is an adjective like blue or green, it describes what we perceive and then we put a name to it. So, it is a good point that they exist, but that they exist doesn't really prove anything, the question still remains about where did they come from. Do they have to be created, or can they be self existing?

I do think the observance of a pattern, or design, speaks to the idea that there is intent, even purpose behind the bringing of something into being. And that speaks of a creator. I'm not sure that it is enough to "prove", a creator, but it surely broadly hints at the idea.

As for the question that would then be just a appropriately put to me:
There's a pattern to it. Somebody must have designed that too. Things don't come up on their own,
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You believe god did, though, don't you?
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No. I don't believe that God "came up on his own", or created himself. Rather, I believe a much more difficult concept to accept, that God has always been. That there never was a time when God was not. So, he is has no beginning. (He also has no end, but that is not relevant to the present discussion.) He is eternal and as such has no creator at all, not even himself. God is simply that which is in a state of "being". All other things that are, whatever they may be, flow out of his being. The means of their creation is not as important as the realization that there is no being without it being found ultimately in his being. So love is real because God is love. Mercy exists because God is merciful. And we experience them, not as emotions, but as choices.

And what of things such as sin, evil, etc., did God then create these things as well. Do they have their source of being in him. Actually quite the opposite. Paradoxically, it is sin and evil that do not really exist. As all things have their being in the one who always IS. So if we perceive something as existing (such as evil) that is not a part of who or what God is, it is not actually something that exists, but merely the absence of the experience of God's presence. In the same way that heat is real and cold does not exist except as the absence of heat. So good is real, as it has its origins in God, and evil is merely the experience of the absence of good.

For reasons that I will probably never fully understand, God has given a degree of freedom to some parts of his creation that they might not just exist (as a rock or water exists), but that these special aspects of creation might actually exercise some degree of self-will, even apart from his own divine will). With the freedom to chose, God's creation can either submit their will to his and experience their freedom to choose within the very nature and character of God and those add even more joy to their lives, or they may exercise their self-will apart from God, though in doing so they experience the loss of joy (i.e. pain and sorrow) in their lives. Again, joy is real, and pain and sorrw are not, they are only the absence of joy and other good gifts from God that we deny ourselves.
 
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ummzayd said:
yup I can relate to that....I remember 20 years ago when I came to UK from Ireland - it was quite normal for me to talk about God a lot but I quickly learned it was a no-no. People would be like :eek: she's talkin about GOD help she is a NUTTER lol. and now of course in my hijab they think I'm a double nutter with bells on....

peace
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The state of Christiainity is so bad in some places that it is little more than a name in a book with no faith attached to it. If 3000 Muslims convert to Christianity in a place like this and then start practicing "that" type of Christianity, I'm sorry to say but they were probably neither Muslims before nor Christians afterward.

Though of course I want to win the whole world for Christ, at the same time, I would rather see a person a sincere and practicing Muslim than a lazy non-practicing Christian.
 
Grace Seeker said:
The state of Christiainity is so bad in some places that it is little more than a name in a book with no faith attached to it. If 3000 Muslims convert to Christianity in a place like this and then start practicing "that" type of Christianity, I'm sorry to say but they were probably neither Muslims before nor Christians afterward.

Though of course I want to win the whole world for Christ, at the same time, I would rather see a person a sincere and practicing Muslim than a lazy non-practicing Christian.
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Peace Gene,

You are quite right. we both have a common enemy that is far worse than either you or I could ever be to each other.

That enemy is Shaytan(Satan) operating under the names of apathy, greed, prejudice, sloth etc. That enemy is out to find any and all who are cold or luke warm in their beliefs and direct them towards the false worship of acceptance, comradship and insincere worship.
 
MadeenJibreel said:
what's the point
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The point being that those who called themselves Muslim, may not have been following Islam and they may have converted to a form of Christianity that is not Christian. Simply secularists becoming more secular, but using a convenient name change.
 
Woodrow said:
The point being that those who called themselves Muslim, may not have been following Islam and they may have converted to a form of Christianity that is not Christian. Simply secularists becoming more secular, but using a convenient name change.
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Technically, we Muslims never really know are we (still) Muslims or not (i.e. a Muslim can commit a hidden shirk without even knowing it!), we should say insha'Allah we are, but only Allahu ta'ala knows that. Insha'Allah all of us will die with the best of Imaan. Ameen.
 

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