Muslims converting to Christianity

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Z.AL-Rashid said:
:sl:

Hope this clarifies it Insha'Allah:


Volume 1, Book 8, Number 429:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any amongst the Prophets before me. These are:

1. Allah made me victorious by awe (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey.

2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum. Therefore my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due.

3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me (and was not made so for anyone else).

4. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation exclusively but I have been sent to all mankind.

5. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection.)
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:w:

jazakallahu khair akhi for the knowledge and reply. I was not interested in replying and wanted to give someone else the opportunity and share knowledge :)
 
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islamirama said:
:w:

jazakallahu khair akhi for the knowledge and reply. I was not interested in replying and wanted to give someone else the opportunity and share knowledge :)
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Barak Allah Fik Akhi :happy:....Mash'Allah :thumbs_up

Walaikum Assalam Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
just a couple of notes.
it was said earlier that the 7 noahide laws are for proselytes to judaism - this is not true. they are for non-jews.
converts to judaism are the same as jews and are bound by 613 laws! :scared:
also, the punishments in the tanakh. i don't know that there is a death penalty for apostasy specifically, but i'm almost positive that there is a death penalty for idolatry - which would be the same as apostasy, wouldn't it?
the laws in the tanakh, which are very similar to islamic laws, ceased to be in effect with the destruction of the temple. like the qur'an and the hadith, the tanakh doesn't stand alone, but is accompanied by the oral law, later written down in the talmud which explained, elucidated and expounded on when and how the punishments were to be applied. for example, certain death penalties were in effect rarely carried out because there were so many conditions.
oh where oh where is rav?
 
Muslim Woman said:
salaam/peace;

i think , we are going off topic :(


anyway , anybody personally knows any ex-Muslim ? What's his/her reason for leaving Islam ?

I met a young man long ago who bacame Christian because he was told ---on the Last Day , no Christian will get any punishment for Jesus (p). Jesus (p) died to make all Christians sinless.

PS. where is the thread --Questions...answered by Christians ???
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hola Muslim Woman,

not personally, but i have met some former muslims through internet forums. the one in particular that i am thinking of is now orthodox. while he does not often talk about what specific events came together to bring him to Christianity, i vaguely recall him talking about leaving the middle east and reading a bible for himself instead of listening from others about what it says, which convinced him. he seems to know a great deal about the history of the Church and Christianity, so he rejects a lot of the things muslims say about corrupted scriptures and the apostle st. paul, perhaps that weighed into his decision.

que Dios te bendiga
 
Grace Seeker said:
Proselytes who became Jews had to keep the commands of Moses just as if they had been born Jewish. There was no difference. That was the whole point of the party of the Pharisees. That Peter should of the Gentile believers that God "made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith" is an incredible statement that Peter was not concerned about a person's Jewishness. But rather there is no difference between a Jew and an Gentile if both are in Christ. Again, you can't put that on Paul
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there were 2 kinds of proselytes, those who became as full Jews and were bound to follow the laws, and those who, while adhering to monotheism and Jewish moral guidelines were not required to follow the law, only the universal laws already mentioned. Clearly the gentiles to whom the council sent a letter had been alarmed and despondant at the idea of having to follow Jewish laws! therefore the council decided that they could be the other kind of proselyte.

My point is, that Jesus pbuh had no intention of abolishing the laws of Judaism and establishing a new religion (he says as much in the gospels). And the decision of the council of Jerusalem certainly bears witness to the fact that those early Jewish followers of Jesus had no intention of giving up Judaism or requiring anyone to give up Judaism, then or later.

Since I am of the opinion that a pro-Pauline spin was put on everything in the NT, naturally it is no surprise that extravagant praise of Paul is put in the mouths of others, and Paul's point of view is expressed by characters other than he.

peace
 
Let's try this another way... which strictly (not noahide) jewish traditions do Christians today follow?
 
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There's no question Paul is the man behind this worldwide deception which has made billions into ignorant victims of the poisonous theology of a "triune God" (God forbid).

The Book of Revelation warns about a 666, this has been proven to refer to Paul of Tarsus:

The Hebrew letter taw = 400
the letter resh = 200
Samek = 60
waw = 6

taw-resh-samek-waw (Tarsaw) = 666 (!)
 
snakelegs said:
just a couple of notes.
it was said earlier that the 7 noahide laws are for proselytes to judaism - this is not true. they are for non-jews.
converts to judaism are the same as jews and are bound by 613 laws! :scared:
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yes that was me, sorry for the confusion. according to the jewish encyclopaedia (sp?) there are (were) 2 types of proselytes to Judaism, those who became full Jews and were bound by the law; and those who gave up polytheism and believed in One God, but didn't have to follow all the laws - only the Noahide laws. and they were called proselytes at the gate or something. So there was certainly a precedent in Judaism for the decision of the council of Jerusalem.

peace
 
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Jayda said:
Let's try this another way... which strictly (not noahide) jewish traditions do Christians today follow?
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ok, how about this: Christians today do not follow Jewish law because Paul declared that the law was abrogated.

I think we can all agree on that.

peace
 
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets
-Jesus Christ (alaihi salam)
Matthew 5.17

by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace
-Paul the liar
Ephesians 2.1

Paul clearly wanted to justify getting rid of the Law in order to attract gentile converts. Paul's twisted theology is the origin of christianity as we know it today.
 
ummzayd said:
yes that was me, sorry for the confusion. according to the jewish encyclopaedia (sp?) there are (were) 2 types of proselytes to Judaism, those who became full Jews and were bound by the law; and those who gave up polytheism and believed in One God, but didn't have to follow all the laws - only the Noahide laws. and they were called proselytes at the gate or something. So there was certainly a precedent in Judaism for the decision of the council of Jerusalem.

peace
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i've never heard that! - 2 types of proselytes. i guess it was a temporary thing? do you have a link?
all i know is that if you become a jew, you have to deal with 613, not 7 - the 7 are for non jews.
quote:
While Jews are commanded to observe hundreds of laws, non-Jews are expected to follow seven that are presumed to date from the time of Noah. Judaism regards any non-Jew who keeps these laws as a righteous person who is guaranteed a place in the world to come.


1. Not to deny God.
2. Not to blaspheme God.

3. Not to murder.

4. Not to engage in incestuous, adulterous, bestial or homosexual relationships.

5. Not to steal.

6. Not to eat a limb torn from a living animal.

7. To set up courts to ensure obedience to the other six laws.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/The_Seven_Noahide_Laws.html
 
As Christianity spread far beyond the middle east, the question arose whether to become a Christian one had to convert to Judaism first. The early church leaders felt that it wasn't necessary, so the rather large list of dietary laws which applied to Jews did not apply to non-Jews.

This isn't a matter of Paul or any other church leader purposely giving up God's laws which applied to the people of Israel. Gentiles are not Jews, and it seemed rather pointless to force them to convert to Judaism before accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior.
 
i don't think they would have gotten very many converts if they had obligated them to follow 613 laws!
 
snakelegs said:
i don't think they would have gotten very many converts if they had obligated them to follow 613 laws!
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I'm not so sure when one takes into account the number of Christians being fed to lions for the joy of the Roman crowd. When one has that level of faith, the number of laws would probably be a minor annoyance.
 
snakelegs said:
i've never heard that! - 2 types of proselytes. i guess it was a temporary thing? do you have a link?
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here is an extract from a rather dry article on jewishencyclopediaonline

"......In order to find a precedent the Rabbis went so far as to assume that proselytes of this order were recognized in Biblical law, applying to them the term "toshab" ("sojourner," "aborigine," referring to the Canaanites; see Maimonides' explanation in "Yad," Issure Biah, xiv. 7; see Grätz, l.c. p. 15), in connection with "ger" (see Ex. xxv. 47, where the better reading would be "we-toshab"). Another name for one of this class was "proselyte of the gate" ("ger ha-sha'ar," that is, one under Jewish civil jurisdiction; comp. Deut. v. 14, xiv. 21, referring to the stranger who had legal claims upon the generosity and protection of his Jewish neighbors). In order to be recognized as one of these the neophyte had publicly to assume, before three "ḥaberim," or men of authority, the solemn obligation not to worship idols, an obligation which involved the recognition of the seven Noachian injunctions as binding ('Ab. Zarah 64b; "Yad," Issure Biah, xiv. 7).The application to half-converts of all the laws obligatory upon the sons of Jacob, including those that refer to the taking of interest, or to retaining their hire overnight, or to drinking wine made by non-Jews, seems to have led to discussion and dissension among the rabbinical authorities.

The more rigorous seem to have been inclined to insist upon such converts observing the entire Law, with the exception of the reservations and modifications explicitly made in their behalf. The more lenient were ready to accord them full equality with Jews as soon as they had solemnly forsworn idolatry. The "via media" was taken by those that regarded public adherence to the seven Noachian precepts as the indispensable prerequisite (Gerim iii.; 'Ab. Zarah 64b; Yer. Yeb. 8d; Grätz, l.c. pp. 19-20). The outward sign of this adherence to Judaism was the observance of the Sabbath (Grätz, l.c. pp. 20 et seq.; but comp. Ker. 8b).
 
snakelegs said:
when you look at it that way - you definitely have a point. :giggling:
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did they not stop feeding them to lions after blending Paulism and Roman Paganism (Perhaps Romans were running out of Christians who followed mosaic laws)?:confused::hiding:
 
Talha777 said:
There's no question Paul is the man behind this worldwide deception which has made billions into ignorant victims of the poisonous theology of a "triune God" (God forbid).

The Book of Revelation warns about a 666, this has been proven to refer to Paul of Tarsus:

The Hebrew letter taw = 400
the letter resh = 200
Samek = 60
waw = 6

taw-resh-samek-waw (Tarsaw) = 666 (!)
Click to expand...
Oh please...
___________

טרסוס
The first letter is a teth, not a waw. and even if it were vaw, it would not necessarily mean Paul is the antichrist. You cannot imagine how many people, organisation or churches have a gematrical value of 666.
 
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It seems that the number 666 plays an important role in Islam. So Paul must have been a good guy.:okay:

http://www.universalunity.org/6.html

It could also mean that Islam is the beast the book of Revelation speaks of...

Or it can mean anything else...depending on your religious affiliation.
 
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