Muslims converting to Christianity

[NoName55]

^^ all I can say is that you are dangerous (and take people out of context) and should be avoided (and will be avoided by me until next week)!

 

[MadeenJibreel]

^^ all I can say is that you are dangerous (and take people out of context) and should be avoided (and will be avoided by me until next week)!

If it's for life - no problem. It's sad that you would say that to your brother in Deen when he's only trying to help you see the Truth. Please try to learn more about this Deen, may Allah (swt) help you and give you better taqwa and adab.

And again, I'll repeat, coz it's very important that we all have this clear in our minds:

ALLAH (swt) never calls us Mohammedans - He (swt) calls us Muslims. No sane Muslim will go against that.

 

[Keltoi]

i can't comment on what jesus taught them, but i think you are right - that the trinity was invented long after his death. as a jew, he would've found the concept blasphemous and quite foreign.
and you have a point in the 2nd statement. in fact, this is one thing that makes the tanakh quite interesting - the way the people are portrayed - they are anything but loveable! and people do not portray themselves so unfavourably. yes, they were a rather dreadful bunch! ;D
but it makes you wonder - if they altered the tanakh, why didn't they portray themselves in a better light - obedient and chaste, pious and understanding, virtuous, long suffering and full of good deeds?
my original statement was that pride was not the reason that the jews rejected jesus.

I would have to disagree with your assessment. Of course Christ didn't call anything a "Trinity", that is a rather new term in the scheme of things. Christ did refer to The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit as being manifestations of the One God. So stating that Christ didn't teach a "Trinity" would be correct as He never used that word as far as we know, but to suggest Christ's teachings do not point to the Triune nature of God would be incorrect as well. Just my two cents worth.

 

[snakelegs]

I would have to disagree with your assessment. Of course Christ didn't call anything a "Trinity", that is a rather new term in the scheme of things. Christ did refer to The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit as being manifestations of the One God. So stating that Christ didn't teach a "Trinity" would be correct as He never used that word as far as we know, but to suggest Christ's teachings do not point to the Triune nature of God would be incorrect as well. Just my two cents worth.

ok. point taken, though i am surprised.
this is really over my head. i don't know much about christianity, don't really understand the trinity and have never read the NT.

 

[NoName55]

If it's for life - no problem. It's sad that you would say that to your brother in Deen when he's only trying to help you see the Truth. Please try to learn more about this Deen, may Allah (swt) help you and give you better taqwa and adab.

And again, I'll repeat, coz it's very important that we all have this clear in our minds:

ALLAH (swt) never calls us Mohammedans - He (swt) calls us Muslims. No sane Muslim will go against that.

I wanted to wait for a wiser brother who is away, to come back to help me with cooking your goose as I am not at all good at that on my own and will end up on the wrong side of some mod or admin.

suffice it to say that:

I am not follower of Muhammed Peace be upon him in the same sense as Christians follow Hazrat Eesa Alahi Salam or Budhists are followers of Budha as I am NOT in direct contact with him as those people were during his lifetime.

I am follower of Islam as taught by Quraan and Sunnah (I am follower of the message that he left).

 

[MadeenJibreel]

I wanted to wait for a wiser brother who is away, to come back to help me with cooking your goose as I am not at all good at that on my own and will end up on the wrong side of some mod or admin.

suffice it to say that:

I am not follower of Muhammed Peace be upon him in the same sense as Christians follow Hazrat Eesa Alahi Salam or Budhists are followers of Budha as I am NOT in direct contact with him as those people were during his lifetime.

I am follower of Islam as taught by Quraan and Sunnah (I am follower of the message that he left).

You know what the problem is akhi?
The problem is that I never ever mentioned "following Rasulullah (saws) like some Christians are following Isa (as)", it was you who mentioned this, I only replied. My statements on the fact that we must follow Rasulullah (saws) was very clear. Ya meded and similar was your direct response? Why? As I never ever implied such a thing.

I, alhamdulillah, am in a direct contact with Rasulullah (saws): every salawat that I say is a direct contact, every part of Sunnah that I do daily is a direct contact, every Hadith that I read is a direct contact, every Ayah that I read where Allah (swt) mentiones Rasulullah (saws) or orders something to him, or explains something to him, is a direct contact.

But that doesn't mean I say "Ya meded" or similar. Of course not.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Yes, this is the Christian point of view. When one looks at scripture through the lense of their own personal belief and bias, he interprets prophetic statements according to this background.

writing from memory---Jesus (p) also said, comforter won't come till i go away...so it's better if i go etc.

Holy Spirit was always there during the time of Jesus ( p ) & before him . So , i don't understand how holy Spirit fits here. ^o)

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salam/peace;

....but it makes you wonder - if they altered the tanakh, why didn't they portray themselves in a better light - obedient and chaste, .

may be they wanted to show others that look , it does not matter what we do , God will always forgive us as He did in the past....may be , may be that could be the reason.

 

[MustafaMc]

actually...we are followers of Resulullah (saws), direct order to obey him (saw) is in the Qur'an on many places.

I agree with you, akhi. We do in fact follow Prophet Muhammad (saaws) as our example for how to worship Allah and how to live our everyday lives. This concept is reflected in the second part of the Shahada, "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Servant and Messenger of Allah." The difference is that we Muslims do not worship Prophet Muhammad (saaws) rather we worship Allah (swt) and do not associate partners or equal with Him. The term Mohammedan implies a worship of Muhammad (saaws) rather than following him in the worship of the Creator.

According to Wikipedia: Muhammedan is a term used as both a noun and an adjective meaning belonging or relating to either the religion ofIslam or to that of the prophet Muhammad.....Muslim is more commonly used today than Moslem, and the term Mohammedan is generally considered archaic or in some cases even offensive...Still other Middle Ages European literature often referred to Muslims as "pagans", or by sobriquets such as the paynim foe. These depictions such as those in the Song of Rolaand represent Muslims worshipping Muhammad as a god, and depict them worshipping various deities in the form of "idols"....

This illustrates the monumental difference between the term Muslim and Mohammedan. I am a Muslim who follows the the Word of Allah, the Quran, and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (saaws).

 

[NoName55]

.....if they altered the tanakh, why didn't they portray themselves in a better light - obedient and chaste, pious and understanding, virtuous, long suffering and full of good deeds?
.....

Questions:

1. was every Jew able to read and write?
2. did every jew had access to the scrolls?
3. or was it the Rabbis who were in control of books?
4. did they read it to people word for word or read out something that was not there?

some body, any body show me where in Quraan it says that Jews changed the written Torah rather than misreading it (as I have very bad memory and also no one is around to help me me look it it up in Quraan)?

 

[NoName55]

@ MustafaMc

would it be a great idea if we swap kitaab-at-Tawhid with wikipedia?

saying we follow the example of is same as following the Sunnah!

trouble and slippery slope starts when we get used to saying we follow the MAN, can any one see where following the Man instead of his message took Christians to?

in some Pakistani and Indian circles it is getting so bad, that If I referred to Prophet as man, I would be lynched for blasphemy.

 

[barney]

I cant understand what numbers have got to do with it. Elevendy billion squillion makes no difference.
The Jews had Moses, Elija and all the others first. They are their prophets and can really do as they like with them. Their assertion is that their history books were right and the adoption of their prophets by other religions is, although flattering, wrong.

 

[snakelegs]

Questions:

1. was every Jew able to read and write?
2. did every jew had access to the scrolls?
3. or was it the Rabbis who were in control of books?
4. did they read it to people word for word or read out something that was not there?

some body, any body show me where in Quraan it says that Jews changed the written Torah rather than misreading it (as I have very bad memory and also no one is around to help me me look it it up in Quraan)?

i have no idea.
a quick search of usc under torah, turned up nothing about the text being changed. (i haven't much time - i'm supposed to be cleaning house, lol)
more than one muslim has said that the text of both the torah and the injil had been corrupted. maybe that is a misunderstanding? (on their part or mine - either is entirely possible)
i am thinking now that what is meant (at least re: the torah) is that the rabbis changed it through interpretation. (this is actually true = the talmud)
personally, i don't have any Position on this suject because i don't know and from my standpoint, it doesn't matter.

in some Pakistani and indian circles it is getting so bad, that If I refered to Prophet as man, I would be lynched for blasphemy.

i find that shocking!

 

[snakelegs]

Salam/peace;




may be they wanted to show others that look , it does not matter what we do , God will always forgive us as He did in the past....may be , may be that could be the reason.

yeah - who knows? i just always thought it was kind of interesting.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

I would have to disagree with your assessment. Of course Christ didn't call anything a "Trinity"........

glad to know that u understand it




Now , pl think ---no Prophet (pbut) before Jesus (p) ever taught about Trinity . No one even gave any hint of Triune God. Always they taught God is One without partner.



If Jesus (p) was always God , how come Adam , Abraham , Moses , Solomon--the most wise person ever regarding Bible (???) did not know about that ???

How come , Jesus (p) suddenly taught people about a total different matter that goes against the main concept of all major holy books ? Jesus (p) taught u , God is greater than ALL . Why u think , All excluded Jesus (p) when he himself said that My Father is greater than I.

Bible, John 14:28

 

[MustafaMc]

wouldn't it be a great idea if we swap kitaab at Tawhid with wikipedia?

??? I use Wikipedia as an unbiased source of information.

saying we follow the example of is same as following the Sunnah!

I believe that we agree on this point.

trouble and slippery slope starts when we get used to saying we folow the MAN, can any one see where following the Man instead of his message took Christians to?

in some Pakistani and indian circles it is getting so bad, that If I refered to Prophet as man, I would be lynched for blasphemy.

I certainly see that when one praises Muhammad (saaws) excessively that one is approaching shirk. The focus should always be on Allah (swt).

 

[جوري]

I cant understand what numbers have got to do with it. Elevendy billion squillion makes no difference.
The Jews had Moses, Elija and all the others first. They are their prophets and can really do as they like with them. Their assertion is that their history books were right and the adoption of their prophets by other religions is, although flattering, wrong.

perhaps you should read what the Jews did to Moses before deciding who calls it 'dibs'--

Now, now

-Muezzin

 

[snakelegs]

Their assertion is that their history books were right and the adoption of their prophets by other religions is, although flattering, wrong.

where did you get this info?

 

[جوري]

where did you get this info?

from his crypts of morgagni.. it almost becoming pustular now ^o)


peace!

 

[barney]

From talking to Jews!

I often find that these questions about "who's religion came first" are similar to Gluconeogenisis.
The vast majority of gluconeogenesis takes place in the liver and, to a smaller extent, in the cortex of kidneys. This process occurs during periods of fasting, starvation, or intense exercise and is highly endergonic. Gluconeogenesis is often associated with ketosis.