Are you talking about the Quran?
What I wanted is some other, reliable historical source that could prove Moses believed in islamic concepts not mentioned in the Torah. And I kinda thought you were gonna provide biblical evidence, as you always do.:sunny:
Well no, I would not believe in Moses through a historical source, but through a source which I deem to be reliable. I guess you don't, so the next step would be to agree on that, if ever possible.
In my opinion, god, if it exists, is not particulary just...just look at the world around you... And if it were just, in my opinion, it would reveal in a completely obvious way, in a way that would allow everyone, regardless of tehir previous religion, their psychological state, their culture, their charachter etc, to realize the "truth".
I want you to be objective though, what it feels like you are doing, I might be wrong, is saying that since
my perception of this world is that it is unjust it indicates that God is not alive or not just.
The key part being
our perception. Imagine you manufactured a new item for cleaning your teeth, it was perfect for the job. But someone came along and said, 'nah, this cannot be something designed by someone, its junk, I mean how could I use this as a door stop!'
What am trying to potray in the above example is that the second person judged the amount of work gone into to make your product through his view. His view being flawed.
We would need, being objective, to take into account different possabilities for God's plan of the earth and also take into account any information which he might have that we don't. Sometimes a family friend does something we deem stupid, but only until we are told some extra information that we realise that this friend done the right thing.
I understand your point on allowing everyone to see the truth, but what is the point in that? Let us speculate, would the point be so that they can make their desicion? I think we'd need another thread to speak on this matter.
Islam does teach we have free choice, and this is what we are to be judged upon, the choices we make within the peramaters we are given and not why we didnt make another path.
I don't find a couple of dubious verses that happen to have paralels with modern science (and are found in all sacred writings) to be eveidence of anything. Nor a few interesting number repetitions or codes, (which are found in all religions). And claims about Quran having no mistakes...I don't buy them. It has less mitakes than the Bible, which (to a non believer) only shows that Mohammed planned it carefully. That doesn't eman there are no mistakes. There are and can eb found on many sites. Sure, you explained them, interpretated them, add something about Arabic being required to understand it... Just like in Christianity. A Bible believeing christian will be able to explain and justify all suppossed contradictions and mistakes. they will use hebrew or greek. They even have evidence for creationism and against evolution...
Have you systematically looked at this, assessing all the actual evidence and then the possible interpretations of those, stacked those against the different interpretations of other evidences.
I would find a repetition in a book written before a time where such could be checked easily, which fits into the text nicely, which was not mentioned for a long time after the writing of the book (maybe indicating that people did not know about it) etc. to be pretty interesting.
But more interesting what would be the good of such a 'miracle'
Further you mention about mistakes in religions, I do agree, alot of muslims and christians talk about mistakes in each other's books, but we have to again be reasonable, interpret the evidence in the most probable way.
It takes time and sacrafise but hey it's worth it.
eace:
Belief always finds a way.
eace:
PS: I'm not in the mood to argue about the Quran. And even if I did it probably woudn't change my opinion. I guess Allah sealed my heart or whatever muslims say..
However, I would appreciate your answer on the Moses question.
I wouldn't argue much either, only if it felt genuine.
I hope the answer to Moses has happend? I am rather long winded sometimes.
kay: