Muslims grooming White girls

[Salahudeen]

Are these actual verses from the Quran? Please tell me these are fabrications. If they are real, why would it suprise you that non-muslims would react negatively?



So, women are to be obedient to men and if a man fears his woman may leave him (it doesn't say wife?), he is to adminish her, abandon her, and beat her? How is that NOT the OK to beat women? It actually tells you to do it? As in if you don't beat your disobedient woman you're acting against God?

Incidentally, if this was a Christian board you came from you'd have wanted to show them the parts of the bible telling you how to beat slaves. Its no better.

This is all a good example of how ethics change over time. In the times these books were written these things were considered ok (slavery, beating women, etc). We've come quite a way since then.



This one appears to be specific to Job, so not applicable to modern men.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/beating_no.htm may be helpful to you.

 

[GuestFellow]

I know that I always carry a hairbrush with me so I that can groom the hair of random white girls. ;D

Salaam,

How nice. O_O

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

I have looked at the link given by brother Salahudeen and I think it is clear enough about the question of wife-beating in Islam. Unless Pygocelis sees something in it that I don't. In which case, I will wait for Pygocelis to tell us what it is that he still does not understand about this issue.

As an attention-getter, the title of this thread should be in line for some kind of award. Brother Uncle Jee does not happen to be in the advertising industry, does he?

Personally I think Islam is the only religion that has accorded women the proper respect due to them as our mothers, sisters and aunts. Anyone who thinks that Islam demeans women either (a) does not know anything about Islam or (b) does not want to know anything good about Islam. Whatever, please feel free to ask so that our learned brothers and sisters here can know exactly what it is that makes a person think that Islam is unfair to women.

Ya Allah, ya Rabbi, please bless all of us with your hidayat and help us to stay strong and steady on the true path of Islam. Ameen.

 

[Tyrion]

http://www.answering-christianity.com/beating_no.htm may be helpful to you.

Interesting article... Can anyone who has a working knowledge of Classical Arabic confirm that those alternate translations of the word used in that verse are accurate? Is that really a possible translation? If it is, it definitely seems to fit within the context of the surah, and of the Quran as a whole a bit better... But then I'm forced to wonder why so many translators and Muslims stick with the translations that seem to speak of beating... Can someone clarify further?

 

[DippedinJannah]

'No more Muslamic rayguns!'

Really, they're not giving those out any more? I got a beautiful X-9000 Phaser Pistol when I reverted.

 

[May Ayob]

Interesting article... Can anyone who has a working knowledge of Classical Arabic confirm that those alternate translations of the word used in that verse are accurate? Is that really a possible translation? If it is, it definitely seems to fit within the context of the surah, and of the Quran as a whole a bit better... But then I'm forced to wonder why so many translators and Muslims stick with the translations that seem to speak of beating... Can someone clarify further?

Salaam
I think they stick to translation of beating because they do not understand the Quran very well, and they also beleive that Islam is male dominated religion, I also think it is because of culture.. and they see it normal to fix a woman by beating her..I guess
But the translation is correct, The word has many meanings , because the Word -Darab in Arabic comprehends alot of meaning such as Give,or Multiply..etc
Salaam


Peace be to you:
Please Read the verse again, Also Read it in an accurate Translation.
the

So, women are to be obedient to men and if a man fears his woman may leave him (it doesn't say wife?), he is to adminish her, abandon her, and beat her? How is that NOT the OK to beat women? It actually tells you to do it? As in if you don't beat your disobedient woman you're acting against God?

Maintainers is not the right translation--Qiyam is the word and Qiyam means literally Standing
I would say the better definetion is Men are the Defenders of Women.
The Prophet Never beated anyone with his hand it is Forbidden.
How can you say his Woman while you should know by now that Islam Prohibits any relationships with the opposite gender except with strict restrictions any man who befriends a woman and claims that she is his woman is commiting a sin and probably fornication as well.

As in if you don't beat your disobedient woman you're acting against God?

You said "As in" so it is a pre-assumption I guess if you were a Muslim you would be one of these men claiming that God has ordained you to beat your wife It really only shows your true inner reflection.It doesn't say you are acting against God, Why do you have to make such a bad-opinion about a case before it is confirmed?

 

[May Ayob]

It was an amazing experience. Considering the place is for motoring enthusiast the amount of Islamiphobic comments on the site are astronomical. The mods even seem to allow people to get away with inflammatory comments like Mosques teach 'Adultery is not the man's fault, the devil works through the woman to ensnare the man.'. I was the only Muslims who spoke up to the idiots and apparently i'm the one that offends. The worst thing is that the forum was populated by educated people too.

Salaam
I don't think Forums like these are good to visit, because they are simply lies, and I see no benfit in them as they don't want to build bridges or anything they rather builder higher and taller walls made of iron ...If that makes sense.
We shouldn't be arguing with non-Muslims much , It is not a healthy thing to do, If some one sincerely wants to know what Islam is then it is okay I guess but otherwise I wouldn't recommend to do so.
P.S- Sorry for the Marriage thing , I guess i mis-understood your first post

Salaam

 

[Futuwwa]

Are these actual verses from the Quran? Please tell me these are fabrications. If they are real, why would it suprise you that non-muslims would react negatively?

I remember an earlier discussion about it in another thread, so I'll link to it rather than repost it here.

 

[aamirsaab]

Islamically, if you beat the **** out of your wife, she has every right to phone the police and have you locked up.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Salaam
I think they stick to translation of beating because they do not understand the Quran very well, and they also beleive that Islam is male dominated religion, I also think it is because of culture.. and they see it normal to fix a woman by beating her..I guess
But the translation is correct, The word has many meanings , because the Word -Darab in Arabic comprehends alot of meaning such as Give,or Multiply..etc

It could be that the Quran was a more woman-friendly book when written and then later generations of muslims (who translated it to this understanding) had a different less woman-friendly and more mysogonist culture. It is interesting to see the difference between this translation and what you say is the original (I can't speak that language so I can not know for sure).

You said "As in" so it is a pre-assumption I guess if you were a Muslim you would be one of these men claiming that God has ordained you to beat your wife It really only shows your true inner reflection.It doesn't say you are acting against God, Why do you have to make such a bad-opinion about a case before it is confirmed?

If a holy book gives you instructions and you fail to follow them, why is it so odd that I'd say that is going against those instructions, and thus against the one who gave them? If God tells you to pray and you don't, it seems to me that'd be going against God. Same here.

It says nothing of my "true inner reflection", since I wouldn't follow it either way (it isn't a holy book to me). It may say something about my reading comprehension of the english language (which is very good), or that the passage is ambiguous (it really isn't), or means what I read it to mean (possible, and scary, hence the question being asked), or points to another flaw in the translation (quite possible and seems to be the case as per what has been stated above).

 

[Starrynight]

I studied this topic a while back. I heard a scholar (I don't remember his name) say that the translation is not "beat" like Americans think. It means you cannot hit her hard enough to leave a mark, and it is simply a light tap. This was a common belief in the texts I read and video's I watched.
That being said, I still wouldn't be cool with a guy hitting at me even if it didn't hurt.

 

[May Ayob]

It could be that the Quran was a more woman-friendly book when written and then later generations of muslims (who translated it to this understanding) had a different less woman-friendly and more mysogonist culture. It is interesting to see the difference between this translation and what you say is the original (I can't speak that language so I can not know for sure).

Peace be to you:
I speak that language, but you have to understand that it was more acceptable at time esp. and no one would have questioned the meaning of these verses as it is infamous that it was male trait to beat you wife and treat her like garbage.. this is a point, Non of the Sahabas(Companions of the Prophet ) denied that woman were treated worse than they would treat trash..So in this case even if you are NOT a Muslim and you were living in these centuries you wouldn't be seeing something wrong with that.
The word used in the Holy Quran : was Daraba--
Daraba As i said before comprehends a lot of other meanings as in Give, Multiply...etc
It is a mis-understanding of the verse.
But the Quran was not changed or written by Muslims, If there is any thing that seems biased it would be because the interpreters and the translators did not pay much effort into seeking it's true meaning.

If a holy book gives you instructions and you fail to follow them, why is it so odd that I'd say that is going against those instructions, and thus against the one who gave them? If God tells you to pray and you don't, it seems to me that'd be going against God. Same here.

No , Not really, because Praying and fasting are acts of Worship and they are essential in Islam.
I don't see where it tells you that God s.w.t commands the man to beat the woman if not the man is going against God..
God does not encourage violence In every Surah(Chapter) it begins with His names the Most-Merciful, The Most-Compassionate.
Please note that your words are kind of advocating violence against woman if any Muslim man that is ignorant about their religion read what you said about this then I don't really think he will hesistate in beating his wife because he is "Acting against God's commands"

It says nothing of my "true inner reflection"

Well the way you explain things ( Me you and Everyone else) does actually reflect our true inner whole, This is why I am saying what I am saying and You are saying what you are saying.. It was one verse you gave an explanation , I gave an explanation and we came out with different opinions does it not say a lot about our true inner self, to you it may not , to me it does.

I wouldn't follow it either way (it isn't a holy book to me). It may say something about my reading comprehension of the english language (which is very good), or that the passage is ambiguous (it really isn't), or means what I read it to mean (possible, and scary, hence the question being asked), or points to another flaw in the translation (quite possible and seems to be the case as per what has been stated above).

You don't know the future as unfortunate and unpleasant it might seem to you I will remind you again you never know what will happen to you in the future. May be the points you brought up are true , and maybe not .. the questions you asked were not what would be considered as a question that needs an answer.. You were literally answering your own questions by yourself.
Peace be to you

 

[ardianto]

Islamically, if you beat the **** out of your wife, she has every right to phone the police and have you locked up.

This is a true story that happened to my wife's friend who has black belt in karate.

She married a man who looked like a good person. However, after married, she knew if her husband is a man who easy to beat her when he's angry. But she tried to keep in patience.

One day her husband beat her again, but now she lost her patience, and hit him back with karate. Her husband knocked out and later reported it to KUA (sharia office) as "Domestic Violence by the wife to the husband". ;D

She got divorced after that. But now she has married again and I think she is happy. I have meet her new husband few times, he is a kind and religious Muslim.

 

[Perseveranze]

I studied this topic a while back. I heard a scholar (I don't remember his name) say that the translation is not "beat" like Americans think. It means you cannot hit her hard enough to leave a mark, and it is simply a light tap. This was a common belief in the texts I read and video's I watched.
That being said, I still wouldn't be cool with a guy hitting at me even if it didn't hurt.

Actually, some people don't really understand why that verse was revealed and under what context.

This guy explains it well,

(please skip to 6:10 in the video).

Now if people don't want to accept or understand that, then it's their fault/ignorance. Given the hadiths on women etc. Practicing Muslim men certainly treat their wives better then non muslims do or can imagine to do.

 

[Zafran]

salaam

You mean 14.00 on the video

peace