Muslims pay for the U.S. imperialistic game

[Darkseid]

it seems the u.s. is up to many different games. among whatever else, this article alleges that it is "bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam and are hostile to America and sympathetic to Al Qaeda."

this is a really long article by seymour hersch, but most interesting as to what the u.s. is up to in the mideast. i don't really have any comments on it other than because i consider seymour hersch more credible than many american journalists, i found this article esp. thought provocative about the complex mess the u.s. has gotten itself (as well as millions of others) into.

because it's so long i'll just post a few excerpts and those interested can read the whole article. link at the bottom.

Annals of National Security
The Redirection
Is the Administration’s new policy benefitting our enemies in the war on terrorism?
by Seymour M. Hersh
March 5, 2007

"To undermine Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, the Bush Administration has decided, in effect, to reconfigure its priorities in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the Administration has coöperated with Saudi Arabia’s government, which is Sunni, in clandestine operations that are intended to weaken Hezbollah, the Shiite organization that is backed by Iran. The U.S. has also taken part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and its ally Syria. A by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam and are hostile to America and sympathetic to Al Qaeda."

"from the Administration’s perspective, the most profound—and unintended—strategic consequence of the Iraq war is the empowerment of Iran."

"Administration officials, influenced by neoconservative ideologues, assumed that a Shiite government there could provide a pro-American balance to Sunni extremists, since Iraq’s Shiite majority had been oppressed under Saddam Hussein. They ignored warnings from the intelligence community about the ties between Iraqi Shiite leaders and Iran, where some had lived in exile for years. "

"The policy shift has brought Saudi Arabia and Israel into a new strategic embrace, largely because both countries see Iran as an existential threat. They have been involved in direct talks, and the Saudis, who believe that greater stability in Israel and Palestine will give Iran less leverage in the region, have become more involved in Arab-Israeli negotiations. "

"“It seems there has been a debate inside the government over what’s the biggest danger—Iran or Sunni radicals,” Vali Nasr, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, who has written widely on Shiites, Iran, and Iraq, told me. “The Saudis and some in the Administration have been arguing that the biggest threat is Iran and the Sunni radicals are the lesser enemies. This is a victory for the Saudi line.”

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...5fa_fact_hersh

It isn't a U.S. Game. I live in the United States, okay? We don't play games, because we are too serious when it comes to money and power. We are a bunch of stiffs to tell you the truth.

Our country wants to remain the top country in the world and it wants to trade (control business) around the world.

But the only Americans you should blame are the neo-conservatives. George Bush is a Neo-Conservative and even though he is our president, he is not our representative. We don't even have a representative. Sure we have a house of represenatives, but we don't have a national representative. But I guess you can say that our Speaker of the House is our national representative.

You have got to understand that the United States's government is under tight pressure and stress from the Democrats in congress and they are under pressure and stress from the people to end this conflict in the Middle-East. They don't want to play games. Playing games is going to get them kicked off of re-election. No one is that stupid except for McCain, because he comes from one of the most pro-white communities in America.

Nevertheless, you should blame Neo-Conservatives. Their whole matter is global control and small government interaction on domestic policies. And guess what that had led towards? Big Dept and a huge hate grudge from everyone around the world. They don't just make matters worse for you guys, they make matters worse for their own people and they don't care. They are the ones you should blame.

Taking out Saddam Hussein made sense. Nation building doesn't make sense.

The United States thought that by not taking charge in nation building they would have another group of people angry at the United States. They thought that the reason why al-Queda truly hates America is because America didn't assist them after kicking out the Soviets in Afghanistan.

 

[snakelegs]

It isn't a U.S. Game. I live in the United States, okay? We don't play games, because we are too serious when it comes to money and power. We are a bunch of stiffs to tell you the truth.

Our country wants to remain the top country in the world and it wants to trade (control business) around the world.

But the only Americans you should blame are the neo-conservatives. George Bush is a Neo-Conservative and even though he is our president, he is not our representative. We don't even have a representative. Sure we have a house of represenatives, but we don't have a national representative. But I guess you can say that our Speaker of the House is our national representative.

You have got to understand that the United States's government is under tight pressure and stress from the Democrats in congress and they are under pressure and stress from the people to end this conflict in the Middle-East. They don't want to play games. Playing games is going to get them kicked off of re-election. No one is that stupid except for McCain, because he comes from one of the most pro-white communities in America.

Nevertheless, you should blame Neo-Conservatives. Their whole matter is global control and small government interaction on domestic policies. And guess what that had led towards? Big Dept and a huge hate grudge from everyone around the world. They don't just make matters worse for you guys, they make matters worse for their own people and they don't care. They are the ones you should blame.



The United States thought that by not taking charge in nation building they would have another group of people angry at the United States. They thought that the reason why al-Queda truly hates America is because America didn't assist them after kicking out the Soviets in Afghanistan.

well, i live in the u.s. also. frankly, i have no use for democrats either so i don't see it as just a problem of neo-conservatives. in a way i find democrats even more revolting.
we will never have a natiional representative as long as we are given a choice between 2 multimillionaires backed by the same corporate interests.
the whole election farce is a game, as is our selling of "democracy" which we don't even have here.

 

[barney]

Baathists told jihadists.... this is hilariuos :laugh:

Got anymore tails to tell?

The influx of Jihadists in 03 wasnt just thousands of ummah running accross the border. It was organised and on arrival they were deployed in several areas, mainly Nasiriya, Afak and Baghdad, under the command of the Iraqi Army (actually the R.G).
I found a link relevent to the above story. (it's Memri, so it was probably penned by a Islamophobic Zionist out of his head on drugs, but it relates a little to what I was told by a US Corpsman. (in a nutshell for those who dont want to follow the link and have Mossad track them!) (thats a joke by the way)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/953726/posts

"Another report mentioned that the "Iraqi Shi'a in the Iraqi capital considered the Arab volunteers to be supporters of Osama bin Laden who they said had nothing to do with us…" [13] Four Arab volunteers who returned home from Baghdad to Damascus and Cairo stated that the Iraqi citizens were directing American forces to the hideouts of the Arab volunteers in exchange for large sums of money. They said that the American forces viewed the volunteers as one of the most important targets because they could carry out martyrdom (suicide) operations against groups of American soldiers."

They were organised into company sized units and fought hard. Very hard.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...13.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/04/13/ixnewstop.html

 

[Darkseid]

well, i live in the u.s. also. frankly, i have no use for democrats either so i don't see it as just a problem of neo-conservatives.

Dude they don't care if you should die from another terrorist attack. You need to wise up.

in a way i find democrats even more revolting.

That is because you are brainwashed or not thinking logically. The only democrat that I find revolting is Hillary, because she is incompetent.

we will never have a natiional representative as long as we are given a choice between 2 multimillionaires backed by the same corporate interests.

Edwards isn't a multimillionaire. Democrats and Republicans don't follow the same interests. Hagel is trying to get Bush out of office. Edwards is trying to establish free healthcare. Obama is trying to end the last bit of problems situated upon minorities. Richardson is trying to establish some executive control for Native Americans. You'd say that is the same plot issued by all politicians. But since when did politicians ever caried about Native Americans, Free Healthcare, and getting corruption out of the government? It seems more likely that you are not on the same page as the reality that is going on. But I can't blame you, hardly anyone is really involved with what is really going on in politics.

the whole election farce is a game, as is our selling of "democracy" which we don't even have here.

Well you are slightly wrong about that. We do have democracy in the election of a congressperson, but we don't have any democracy is the election of our president. Now that latter part is true with what you are talknig about. But we didn't sell our democracy, we never had it to begin with when it came to the presidency. Electors elect the president, not us. But there are some politicians working on getting rid of the electorial college. One of which is a representative from Texas in the House. Eventually we will abolish our electorial college. But who is to say things will get any better. True we need to re-establish our government structure. But I'm the only person who can do that job.

 

[Keltoi]

You're the only person who can do that job?

 

[snakelegs]

hhehehe.....he'll have to change his name first! (altho who would think somebody with a name like schwartzenegger would ever get anywhere?).
darkseid,
you make some valid points and i am being simplistic. yes, i know that technically we are a republic and not a democracy, but we do seem to hold ourselves up as the champion of democracy. (and even export it!)
let's just say that i do not see a large enough difference between republicans and democrats - i don't consider democrats a viable alternative. unfortunately, the way elections are run and the enormous sums of money it takes to advertise the product (oooops, candidate) does not offer much hope for a real alternative.
you are right - the fact that some politicians now have to address issues such as health care is a good thing.

 

[Keltoi]

hhehehe.....he'll have to change his name first! (altho who would think somebody with a name like schwartzenegger would ever get anywhere?).
darkseid,
you make some valid points and i am being simplistic. yes, i know that technically we are a republic and not a democracy, but we do seem to hold ourselves up as the champion of democracy. (and even export it!)
let's just say that i do not see a large enough difference between republicans and democrats - i don't consider democrats a viable alternative. unfortunately, the way elections are run and the enormous sums of money it takes to advertise the product (oooops, candidate) does not offer much hope for a real alternative.
you are right - the fact that some politicians now have to address issues such as health care is a good thing.

I think what you are referring to is the status quo. Both parties have an interest in stopping any other political party from being established.