Muslims pay tribute to UK's armed forces.

[marwen]

I'm afraid I can't do anything about your ignorance. Innocents were murdered in cold blood in Vietnam and no doubt in Afghanistan as well (by all sides - check the source below), but the vast majority of operations by both sides are combat related. Civilians die, usually by mistake, however sophisticated your weapons and intelligence - that's an inevitability of war. The 'knives and old guns' stuff is BS in the context of this sort of war, just as it would have been talking about the Vietcong or any similar guerilla or partisan group.

Supposing civilian casualties is an inevitability of war, there is a big difference between risking innocent people's lives for a noble purpose, and killing them for nothing.

Your second sentence is abject nonsense, as obviously whether a purpose is 'despicable' or not is purely subjective.

purely subjective IS despicable when we risk other peoples/countries safety.

nobody would seriously claim their troops were devoid of courage, honour, and made no sacrifices. Go read up on Stalingrad or Okinawa.

I can't understand your way of thinking. If your are emotionally declined to these troops, then you can sympathize with them even when they are wrong. But you can't claim they have courage, or honour or SACRIFICE. Do you know what is sacrifice ? It's derived from the word SACRED, it's something done for a "sacred" purpose, which I can't find in this war.

Sorry, no fairy stories HERE. While you are there you might want to read up on who exactly all those Taliban IEDs are killing and maiming, as well.

Let's assume resistance groups are making more civilian losts. Is that gonna justify the numbers killed by the troops. The big number of deaths is due to the available rough fighting techniques used by these groups, and I'm not supporting them. Another reason is the presence of the troops. I can't believe that taaliban or whatever other group is directly targeting civilians. They are trying to fight the invading troops. If there was no war, there won't be these resistance operations : Troops out = no victims.
Also keep in mind that not all IEDs are done by taaliban.

 

[Scorpian]

I would just like to clairify my post.
I don`t agree with the war in iraq or afghanistan, i just feel that these muslims saying they agree with it,is giving islam some good press for a change,cause all you here is the bad stuff.

 

[Trumble]

Supposing civilian casualties is an inevitability of war, there is a big difference between risking innocent people's lives for a noble purpose, and killing them for nothing.

Is there? Who has the right to decide what is 'noble' and what is not? Everyone thinks they are right and 'noble' and the other guy is wrong; so somebody is going to be in the firing line either way according to that reasoning.

purely subjective IS despicable when we risk other peoples/countries safety.

The purely subjective is inevitable. It is WAR that is despicable. Legal, illegal, right, wrong, it makes no difference to those caught up in the middle, whether civilian or military.

I can't understand your way of thinking. If your are emotionally declined to these troops, then you can sympathize with them even when they are wrong. But you can't claim they have courage, or honour or SACRIFICE. Do you know what is sacrifice ? It's derived from the word SACRED, it's something done for a "sacred" purpose, which I can't find in this war.

I can, and do. It is ridiculous to suggest that a member of side 'A' who, for example, died single-handedly charging and capturing a position from which fire was raining down on his comrades was acting with courage, honour and (self-)sacrifice, when a member of side 'B' who does exactly the same thing is showing none of those qualities.

Let's assume resistance groups are making more civilian losts. Is that gonna justify the numbers killed by the troops.

No. But that is not the point I am making.

I can't believe that taaliban or whatever other group is directly targeting civilians. They are trying to fight the invading troops. If there was no war, there won't be these resistance operations : Troops out = no victims.

And here, with all due respect, is that fantasy world again. I agree with the first part, in that I don't think EITHER side deliberately targets civilians. Where I disagree is with the bit about 'resistance operations', which is just as much nonsense in regard to Afghanistan as it was Iraq. The Taliban are not resisting foreign 'invaders' on behalf of the Afghan people, they are - as they were before - a distinct power group within Afghanistan supported by some and hated by others. Just as in relation to NATO and Afghan government troops, the majority just wish both combatant sides would just go away and leave them alone. But the sad fact is, the NATO troops could go home tomorrow and the body count would not stop.

 

[Cabdullahi]

We're not just talking about the dead 'muslim' soldiers, how about the imams and muslim groups that can come on tv infront of the whole world and give 'tribute' to soldiers waging wars against muslims. When muslims can do that, I don't think it longer matters whats in their 'hearts' as their actions have spoken loud enough, they're sinning openly so they are faasiqs.

aadil a fiery pokora as usual mash'Allah

 

[Jedi]

Is that another pathetic excuse to justify a war, like the one about women not being able to go to school? Although I don't believe that statement in the slightest (unless you're including ANA and NA deaths), even if it were true it - it would be as a result of the foreign illegal invasion, wouldn't have happened if people had minded their own business



Theres no courage in terrorism and fighting illegal wars - its no sacrifice - just a waste



If innocents die for an unjustified illegal war, then it does make a difference cause they died for absolutely nothing, if they die in the process of justified war then atleast their sacrifice meant something and was for something positive in the end. Religion does make a difference to us, especially if its non-muslims that invade our countries, thats when jihad in self defence becomes obligatory.

What happens when a muslim country invades another muslim country?
i.e. iraq v iran, iraq v kuwait, iran v iraq etc!
Who are the true muslims then?
And if and when the western powers leave iraq, will the muslims be at peace?
Or will they need another 'butcher of baghdad' type tyrant to keep them down?
"thats when jihad in self defence becomes obligatory."
And does this jihad mean attacking non combatants in western nations?

 

[Imaan]

Utterly disgraceful, brainwashed..... God know what?

 

[Jedi]

aadil a fiery pokora as usual mash'Allah

''You copy the west in the exact manner monkeys imitate others '' - Ibrahim alkhouly

Why have muslim countries taken help from non muslim western nations, whether it be in times of war, or natural disaster, or exchange of technology/trade or aid?

 

[Jedi]

pretty sad to see Muslims supporting the armies.

But, it was ok for muslim divisions of the Nazi SS to support hitler???????

By the way I do not support war!

 

[Life_Is_Short]

Ever wonder why the media pays so much attention to news stories like these? hmmm .. <_<

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

Zeehan said he thought it was positive for Muslims to show their support for the British armed forces

it's so shocking . I cant' believe that Muslims can show ' support ' for British troops who are killing our thousands and thousands innocent brothers & sisters. So pathetic.

 

[Dagless]

That makes no sense !

Here is an example : If you see a killer in the street who is murdering an old innocent lady. But because the lady was defending herself, it took him 2 hours to finish her. Would you say : "oh, that man was very brave and courageous, It took him tow exhausting hours to finish his job". Yes you're not supporting his act but you support his courage ?! how ridiculous is that !

This is a great example and exactly correct. The US attacked without just cause, therefore they are the aggressors. The Afghans are simply defending (which is what any nation would do). If there was no attack there would be no casualties. It's that simple.

In Afghanistan far more muslims have been killed BY muslims than by anybody else.

This is just wrong. I looked at your link, 2006? 2009? Do you realise the war started in 2001! There have been up to 30,000 civilian deaths caused by the US, and that's before you count the deaths classed as "combatants". Are you seriously saying the Afghans have killed 30,000+ of their own people? What rubbish.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

Why have muslim countries taken help from non muslim western nations, whether it be in times of war, or natural disaster, or exchange of technology[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]/trade or aid?

why ? what's the problem with exchange of technology or helping each other in disaster time ? Muslims are not allowed to hate non-Muslims . What's ur point here ?

 

[Jedi]

Salaam/Peace



why ? what's the problem with exchange of technology or helping each other in disaster time ? Muslims are not allowed to hate non-Muslims . What's ur point here ?

Please re-read:

''You copy the west in the exact manner monkeys imitate others '' - Ibrahim alkhouly

Why have muslim countries taken help from non muslim western nations, whether it be in times of war, or natural disaster, or exchange of technology/trade or aid?

I might be hairy, but I'm no monkey:smile:

 

[Trumble]

This is a great example and exactly correct. The US attacked without just cause, therefore they are the aggressors. The Afghans are simply defending (which is what any nation would do). If there was no attack there would be no casualties. It's that simple.

You refer to 2001 and yet you seem utterly clueless as to what happened then. Most of the fighting to oust the Taliban was done by MUSLIM 'Northern Alliance' forces continuing a war that had begun five years or so earlier; US support just put them in a position to win it. As to 'the Afghans', please refer to my previous post.

Are you seriously saying the Afghans have killed 30,000+ of their own people? What rubbish.

No it is not rubbish, and yes am saying it. It's just easier to accept the fairy stories, though, isn't it?

 

[Dagless]

You refer to 2001 and yet you seem utterly clueless as to what happened then. Most of the fighting to oust the Taliban was done by MUSLIM 'Northern Alliance' forces continuing a war that had begun five years or so earlier; US support just put them in a position to win it. As to 'the Afghans', please refer to my previous post.

So you're saying the US DIDN'T kill Afghans by bombing supply lines in October 2001? So the US killed no Afghans until 2007 according to you? This is the exact opposite of what human rights groups and the US themselves say. Do we believe the US and human rights groups or Trumble? Who's clueless now?

No it is not rubbish, and yes am saying it. It's just easier to accept the fairy stories, though, isn't it?

Erm... who is the one here who is not providing any proof for his statements? Please show me any source other than yourself which shows 30,000+ civilians were killed by Afghans. Of course you can't show it because its not true.

 

[Dagless]

Please re-read:

''You copy the west in the exact manner monkeys imitate others '' - Ibrahim alkhouly

Why have muslim countries taken help from non muslim western nations, whether it be in times of war, or natural disaster, or exchange of technology/trade or aid?

I might be hairy, but I'm no monkey:smile:

1) Have you read the entire statement? Do you understand what was being said and the context? How do you know he was not just referring to one event or some bad practices?
2) How is exchange of information or aid a form of imitation? If someone falls down and I help them up are they imitating me?
3) Why don't you troll elsewhere?

 

[Jedi]

1) Have you read the entire statement? Do you understand what was being said and the context? How do you know he was not just referring to one event or some bad practices?
2) How is exchange or information or aid a form of imitation? If someone falls down and I help them up are they imitating me?
3) Why don't you troll elsewhere?

I'm here for adult debate/discussion!
I'm no troll!

See you have ganged up and joined in the troll accusation!
Hope that's not me going ape!

 

[جوري]

Please re-read:

''You copy the west in the exact manner monkeys imitate others '' - Ibrahim alkhouly

Why have muslim countries taken help from non muslim western nations, whether it be in times of war, or natural disaster, or exchange of technology/trade or aid?

I might be hairy, but I'm no monkey:smile:

good question.. why not ask that of your leaders when they beg for :

KUWAIT CITY (AFP) – The United States has asked four oil-rich Gulf states for close to 300 billion dollars to help it curb the global financial meltdown, Kuwait's daily Al-Seyassah reported Thursday.
Quoting "highly informed" sources, the daily said Washington has asked Saudi Arabia for 120 billion dollars, the United Arab Emirates for 70 billion dollars, Qatar for 60 billion dollars and was seeking 40 billion dollars from Kuwait.
Al-Seyassah said Washington sought the amount as "financial aid" to face the fallout of the financial crisis and help prevent its economy from sliding into a painful recession.
The daily said the United States plans to use the funds to help the ailing automobile industry , banks and other companies suffering from the global financial turmoil.
The four nations, all members of OPEC, produce together 14 million barrels of oil per day, around half of the cartel's production and about 17 percent of world supplies.
The four states are estimated to have amassed close to 1.5 trillion dollars in surplus in the past six years due to high oil prices that rocketed above 147 dollars in July before sliding to just above 50 dollars.
The daily also said that the United States has asked Kuwait to forgive its Iraqi debt estimated at around 16 billion dollars.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081120...JOoU6Ff0es0NUE

also pays to read before you write (as a general rule)

we can only hope more of your troops come back in body bags insha'Allah..

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

I'm here for adult debate/discussion!
I'm no troll!

See you have ganged up and joined in the troll accusation!
Hope that's not me going ape!

U are going off topic. If u want to know if Muslims are allowed to take help from non Muslims or should exchage info / technology , then pl. start a thread. Thanks.

 

[Jedi]

good question.. why not ask that of your leaders when they beg for :

KUWAIT CITY (AFP) – The United States has asked four oil-rich Gulf states for close to 300 billion dollars to help it curb the global financial meltdown, Kuwait's daily Al-Seyassah reported Thursday.
Quoting "highly informed" sources, the daily said Washington has asked Saudi Arabia for 120 billion dollars, the United Arab Emirates for 70 billion dollars, Qatar for 60 billion dollars and was seeking 40 billion dollars from Kuwait.
Al-Seyassah said Washington sought the amount as "financial aid" to face the fallout of the financial crisis and help prevent its economy from sliding into a painful recession.
The daily said the United States plans to use the funds to help the ailing automobile industry , banks and other companies suffering from the global financial turmoil.
The four nations, all members of OPEC, produce together 14 million barrels of oil per day, around half of the cartel's production and about 17 percent of world supplies.
The four states are estimated to have amassed close to 1.5 trillion dollars in surplus in the past six years due to high oil prices that rocketed above 147 dollars in July before sliding to just above 50 dollars.
The daily also said that the United States has asked Kuwait to forgive its Iraqi debt estimated at around 16 billion dollars.




also pays to read before you write (as a general rule)



we can only hope more of your troops come back in body bags insha'Allah..

Can't get your link to work.
And the western leaders are not my leaders!
And the point of my question, is why would muslims take help/aid from the kuffar!
Where is the help/aid from the ummah?

''You copy the west in the exact manner monkeys imitate others '' - Ibrahim alkhouly

Seems to be an all encompassing statement!