Muslims urged to vote to keep out extremist parties

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Zafran said:
No but as i said Debates are allowed and the Islamic Governace can and has tolerated multiculturalism and diversity fro over 1000 years in History - as bro Dorster said produce the hadiths about arabia?
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ottoman Dhimmis had towear special clothes, couldn't ride a horse, couldn't marry a Muslim woman, couldn't inherit from Muslims, couldn't testify against a Muslim, couldn't inherit from Muslims, payed special taxes etc. In my book, that's not exactly multiculturalism.
 
These hadiths are in the context of Treason in war against the small muslim forces. Furthermore Umar ibn Khttab (ra) tolerated christains and Jews in Jerusalem and the coptic christains in Egypt - these hadith are only for the punishment of treason - now there are no minorities in Arabia anway who want to go there.
 
Zafran said:
These hadiths are in the context of Treason in war against the small muslim forces. Furthermore Umar ibn Khttab (ra) tolerated christains and Jews in Jerusalem and the coptic christains in Egypt - these hadith are only for the punishment of treason - now there are no minorities in Arabia anway who want to go there.
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there are millions of non-Muslims in Arabia, The Saudis are the only one who won't let them build religious objects.
 
Whatsthepoint said:
ottoman Dhimmis had towear special clothes, couldn't ride a horse, couldn't marry a Muslim woman, couldn't inherit from Muslims, couldn't testify against a Muslim, couldn't inherit from Muslims, payed special taxes etc. In my book, that's not exactly multiculturalism.
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what book

and the ottomans did have a good system in that they allowed the non muslims to gocvern themselves and live there own lifes the way they wanted

coulndt testify against Muslims is a lie as many Jews and christains found the Ottoman courts more just then there own courts - furthermore Byzed the second accepted the Jews after they were thrown out of spain due to the Inquistion. Taxes - lower as you said in your own statement. The rest maybe for there own reasons i'm sure the Quran sunnah does not allow for the different clothes - the ottomans were far more tolerant then anything europe had at the time.
 
Whatsthepoint said:
there are millions of non-Muslims in Arabia, The Saudis are the only one who won't let them build religious objects.
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are there why are they there anyway? millions how many? and where did you get this from - arabi isnt exacly the best model it is a regime - its a tyranny.
 
Ultimatley it was the best system around in the past atleast if you campare it to other places at the time - There is no reason why cannot be the best in the future - a multicultural and tolerant system under the shraiah just as non muslim came to the courts of the Muslims becasue they were fairer and more Just - it can happen again.
 
Whatsthepoint said:
Book 019, Number 4366:

It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.

Volume 3, Book 39, Number 531:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Umar expelled the Jews and the Christians from Hijaz. When Allah's Apostle had conquered Khaibar, he wanted to expel the Jews from it as its land became the property of Allah, His Apostle, and the Muslims. Allah's Apostle intended to expel the Jews but they requested him to let them stay there on the condition that they would do the labor and get half of the fruits. Allah's Apostle told them, "We will let you stay on thus condition, as long as we wish." So, they (i.e. Jews) kept on living there until 'Umar forced them to go towards Taima' and Ariha'.
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Ah! finally.

^^sam shamoun and other kafir run-hate sites often quote these to contradict Quran 29:46
http://islamawakened.com/Quran/29/46/

"And do not argue with the followers of earlier revelation otherwise than in a most kindly manner - unless it be such of them as are bent on evildoing [Sc., "and are therefore not accessible to friendly argument": the implication being that in such cases all disputes should as priority be avoided. As regards religious discussions in general, **see 16:125.] - and say: "We believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, as well as that which has been bestowed upon you: or our God and your God is one and the same, and it is unto Him that We [all] surrender ourselves."

problem for me here is 2 or 3fold
1) I need to gather all Ahadees on a given subject (I never had capacity or will to memorize all or even many) thus any quoted in English may be distortions either by kuffar like yourself or by deviants and monafiq infilterators within us)
2) that people in charge here will NOT give me a freehand to post as I need to, to defend the Holy Quran, last time I tried I got in to heap big trouble (one of them as per his sect, even said to me that a hadees can abrogate an ayat) so rather than be disabled from posting permanently, I'll leave it for one of "ahl-e-hadees" to writhe and wriggle explaining those (unless you can point me to a page number in an Arabic collection)

theses threads might be useful in explaining Islam based on Quran and Sahih (true) Sunnat e Rasul


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Closed: Facts about the association of Islam with violence

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Closed: Islam: The Middle Path

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Faith and Morality: Two Interconnected Aspects of Islam

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**16:125 CALL THOU (all mankind] unto thy Sustainer's path with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and argue with them in the most kindly manner- for, behold, thy Sustainer knows best as to who strays from His path, and best knows He as to who are the right-guided.
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in other words it is not our job to make you Muslim, you either takes it or leaves it as per Surat alkafiroon (The Rejecters/Hiders of Truth)
 
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Zafran said:
what book

and the ottomans did have a good system in that they allowed the non muslims to gocvern themselves and live there own lifes the way they wanted

coulndt testify against Muslims is a lie as many Jews and christains found the Ottoman courts more just then there own courts - furthermore Byzed the second accepted the Jews after they were thrown out of spain due to the Inquistion. Taxes - lower as you said in your own statement. The rest maybe for there own reasons i'm sure the Quran sunnah does not allow for the different clothes - the ottomans were far more tolerant then anything europe had at the time.
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they counquered countries, it was the only plausible way to keep them though people still revolted all the time. On the other hand I'm not sure they'd let new churches built in their pricipal territories.
Yes I said that but I my have been wrong. And apparently the quran doesn't prohibit dress codes for minorities.
They may have been, but modern multicultural Britain is more tolerant.
 
Zafran said:
Ultimatley it was the best system around in the past atleast if you campare it to other places at the time - There is no reason why cannot be the best in the future - a multicultural and tolerant system under the shraiah just as non muslim came to the courts of the Muslims becasue they were fairer and more Just - it can happen again.
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It was undoubtedly better than medieval Europe.
I don't want it happening in europe, that's all. You can have Somalia and the Swat valley.
 
doorster said:
Ah! finally.

^^sam shamoun and other kafir run-hate sites often quote these to contradict Quran 29:46
http://islamawakened.com/Quran/29/46/

"And do not argue with the followers of earlier revelation otherwise than in a most kindly manner - unless it be such of them as are bent on evildoing [Sc., "and are therefore not accessible to friendly argument": the implication being that in such cases all disputes should a priori be avoided. As regards religious discussions in general, see note on 16:125.] - and say: "We believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, as well as that which has been bestowed upon you: or our God and your God is one and the same, and it is unto Him that We [all] surrender ourselves."

problem here that people in charge here will NOT give me a freehand to post as I need to, to defend the Holy Quran, last time I tried I got in to heap big trouble so rather than be disabled from posting permanently, I'll leave it for one of "ahl-e-hadees" to writhe and wriggle explaining those (unless you can point me to an a page number in an Arabic collection)

theses threads might be useful in explaining Islam based on Quran and Sahih (true) Sunnat e Rasul


subscribed-1.gif
Closed: Facts about the association of Islam with violence

subscribed-1.gif
Closed: Islam: The Middle Path
doorster

​
subscribed-1.gif
Faith and Morality: Two Interconnected Aspects of Islam
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Were they expelled or not?
 
Whatsthepoint said:
they counquered countries, it was the only plausible way to keep them though people still revolted all the time. On the other hand I'm not sure they'd let new churches built in their pricipal territories.
Yes I said that but I my have been wrong. And apparently the quran doesn't prohibit dress codes for minorities.
They may have been, but modern multicultural Britain is more tolerant.
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The tax is lower preety clearly - secodnaly most of things the Ottoman did were Far more tolerant and multicultural then anything in europe - people ran to Muslim courts - if that happend in the past it can easily happen in the future but far better - Its one of the reasons why Islam has a relatively tolerant and multicultureal history -Europe historcally has been less tolerant its a very modern phenomana for them (tolerance) the muslim lands were more tolerant.
 
Whatsthepoint said:
Were they expelled or not?
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It was under treason and war - but what about the Jewsih minorities in Jerusalem or coptics in Egypt - You cant just pick and choose - you have to see the whole context - far more tolerant in the past - can happen in the future atleast for its time.
 
Whatsthepoint said:
It was undoubtedly better than medieval Europe.
I don't want it happening in europe, that's all. You can have Somalia and the Swat valley.
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If the muslims were the most tolerant for over 1000 years - they can be the most tolerant again. - Not just in the medieval period but for over 1000 years.
 
Zafran said:
The tax is lower preety clearly - secodnaly most of things the Ottoman did were Far more tolerant and multicultural then anything in europe - people ran to Muslim courts - if that happend in the past it can easily happen in the future but far better - Its one of the reasons why Islam has a relatively tolerant and multicultureal history -Europe historcally has been less tolerant its a very modern phenomana for them (tolerance) the muslim lands were more tolerant.
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Why is it lower pretty clearly?
Europe in the past was bad but it got significantly better, the courts, everything and IMHO its the best the world has seen so far, but that's just an opinion.
the roman empire was multicultural as well at one point everyone residing in the empire was granted roman citizenship, making them equal to Romans, which was never the case in the ottoman empire where Muslims and Islam were favored no matter what you say. I don't see anything wrong in favoring the dominant culture or religion anyway.
 
Im afraid that this interesting topic is going too far from the subject.
 
Zafran said:
It was under treason and war - but what about the Jewsih minorities in Jerusalem or coptics in Egypt - You cant just pick and choose - you have to see the whole context - far more tolerant in the past - can happen in the future atleast for its time.
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Did they expell the entire people or just those proven guilty of treason etc?
 
Whatsthepoint said:
Why is it lower pretty clearly?
Europe in the past was bad but it got significantly better, the courts, everything and IMHO its the best the world has seen so far, but that's just an opinion.
the roman empire was multicultural as well at one point everyone residing in the empire was granted roman citizenship, making them equal to Romans, which was never the case in the ottoman empire where Muslims and Islam were favored no matter what you say. I don't see anything wrong in favoring the dominant culture or religion anyway.
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Thats not actually true the Romans didnt give citizenship to everybody - people had to revolt against them - they also had grades of citizenship - the Greeks were far worse also.

why is it lower becasue Muslims have to pay far more - Sadaqa, Zakat, normal tax etc

the non muslims only pay Jizya - thats it.

Yes your right the shariah was favoured Just like certain agendas or supprted in any civilisation/nation

All i'm saying is that the muslims were the most tolerant for 1000 years - europe doesnt have that history - its preety modern for them - The muslims could be the most tolerant once again.
 
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