Muslims, what do you think of Catholicism?

[Zundrah]

Okay, I am Roman Catholic and I have about three great muslim friends at work and we chat non-stop about God and all kinds of religious things all day long!

Is there anything you want to know about Christianity or specifically Rome/ Catholicism? I'd love to talk about it. Ask me anything you wish to. I not going to be offended .

Jesus Christ is a good topic to start on or maybe the Eucharist?

 

[Predator]

Is there anything you want to know about Christianity or specifically Rome/ Catholicism?

Jesus Christ is a good topic to start on or maybe the Eucharist?

When Jesus came down and allegedly sacrificed himself for the sins of those who believe in him, what about those who lived before Jesus , what would be their fate?

 

[Amadeus85]

We already have topic about catholicism, so maybe mods could move this topic there?

 

[Grace Seeker]

When Jesus came down and allegedly sacrificed himself for the sins of those who believe in him, what about those who lived before Jesus , what would be their fate?

They placed their faith in God's promised Messiah. And as with all of the rest of us, God counted their faith as righteousness, indeed they are the model for how we are to have faith. So, no problem, they are saved too.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

... maybe the Eucharist?

Welcome to the forum

I read a real life joke about Eucharist . A non-Catholic boy was going to marry a Catholic girl . Pastor said , as u are not a Catholic , we will have the marraige ceremony without Eucharist .

The poor chap heard : we will have the ceremony without u , Chris. He got really upset lol ;D

U can tell me more about Eucharist . How does it play role in a Catholic marriage ?

 

[Predator]

They placed their faith in God's promised Messiah. And as with all of the rest of us, God counted their faith as righteousness, indeed they are the model for how we are to have faith. So, no problem, they are saved too.

Could you show me any such verse from the bible where God told the people of Noah where he would come down as a messiah and die for them ?

 

[marwen]

Welcome to the forum Zundrah :welcome:
This topic shows that you are a very open minded christian.

I have one question just to understand : Has Jesus told people he is a God ? or they just guessed that he is a God based on his miracles ?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Could you show me any such verse from the bible where God told the people of Noah where he would come down as a messiah and die for them ?

Hebrews 11 lists a number of Old Testament saints (including Noah) and declares that they had faith:

1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. 2This is what the ancients were commended for.... 13All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance.... 39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40God had planned something better for us so that only together with us [who are in Christ (implied)] would they be made perfect.

 

[Zundrah]

Welcome to the forum Zundrah :welcome:
This topic shows that you are a very open minded christian.

That's sweet of you. I have a muslim friend called Hasan, we get along really well.

I have one question just to understand : Has Jesus told people he is a God ? or they just guessed that he is a God based on his miracles ?

Jesus told His people that He was God. Here is the biblical verse where He said it;

John 8:58 (New International Version)


58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

Could you show me any such verse from the bible where God told the people of Noah where he would come down as a messiah and die for them ?

Just before the New Testament, Gods people were promised another prophet (this is exactly where it says that he would come from a virgin). But the Jews never expected that this prophet would claim to be God. This is why they killed Him. His death is because of the passover. I can explain but it would take ages!

Salaam/Peace




Welcome to the forum

I read a real life joke about Eucharist . A non-Catholic boy was going to marry a Catholic girl . Pastor said , as u are not a Catholic , we will have the marraige ceremony without Eucharist .

The poor chap heard : we will have the ceremony without u , Chris. He got really upset lol ;D

:skeleton:

U can tell me more about Eucharist . How does it play role in a Catholic marriage ?

The Eucharist has nothing to do with marriage. If you want to marry a Catholic, you must become Catholic yourself also. No priest would ever allow a marriage with a person who is not Catholic.

 

[Zundrah]

When Jesus came down and allegedly sacrificed himself

......allegedly!?

for the sins of those who believe in him, what about those who lived before Jesus , what would be their fate?

They followed the laws and commandments of the Lord God, they are fine.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace


.

No priest would ever allow a marriage with a person who is not Catholic.

but in the Catholic forum , I met some Catholics who are married to non-Catholics , even with Muslims. Well , I did not ask them where they got married .

 

[freethinking]

Could you show me any such verse from the bible where God told the people of Noah where he would come down as a messiah and die for them ?

There are prohecies in several books of ther old testament such as: Psalms 2:7 (NIV) I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son ; today I have become your Father.

Psalms 2:6 (NIV) "I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill."

Psalms 2:1-2 (NIV) Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? 2 The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the LORD and against his Anointed One.

Psalm 22:7-8 (NIV) All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads: 8 "He trusts in the LORD; let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him."
Psalms 41:9 (NIV) Even my close friend, whom I trusted, he who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me. - Judus!
ALSO - Zechariah 11:12-13 (NIV) I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"--the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.

Psalms 110:1 (NIV) Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

Psalms 78:2 (NIV) I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter hidden things, things from of old"

Psalms 69:9-10 (NIV) for zeal for your house consumes me, and the insults of those who insult you fall on me. 10 When I weep and fast, I must endure scorn;
Psalms 69:4 (NIV) Those who hate me without reason outnumber the hairs of my head; many are my enemies without cause, those who seek to destroy me. I am forced to restore what I did not steal.
Deuteronomy 18:15 (NIV) The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.


Isaiah 7:14 (NIV) Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6-7 (NIV) For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.

Isaiah 50:6 (NIV) I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.

Isaiah 62:11 (NIV) The LORD has made proclamation to the ends of the earth: "Say to the Daughter of Zion, 'See, your Savior comes! See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him.'"

Isaiah 61:1-2 (NIV) The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners, 2 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn"

Isaiah 53:9 (NIV) He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.

Isaiah 53:12 (NIV) Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

ON the Crucifixion:
Zechariah 12:10 (NIV) "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
Psalms 22:16 (NIV) Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.
Psalms 69:21 (NIV) They put gall in my food and gave me vinegar for my thirst.
Psalms 34:20 (NIV) he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken.
Isaiah 53:9-12 (NIV) He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. 11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Matthew 27:38 (NIV) Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left.
Luke 22:37 (NIV) It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
​

Isaiah 53:5-7 (NIV) But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
there are many more and the NT confirms enourmous amouts of Jesus life. Jeus himself as a man used the OT in the wilderness when he was being tempted by Satan all three quotes from the book of dueteronony
Peace and Blessings to you

 

[غزالی]

you says juses died for your sins. have you any sense like things... A Person committ murder and we give punishment to a non associated person..
what the childish and fantasy stories you have. you have made fun with the religion that only belief on juses is required for salvation.
You have no proof for juses crucifixion. it is cruici fiction.. you can read the story of johna miracles when he save after 3 days and 3 night. The juses had told that he will resemmbles with him and your 3 days of easter also due to this. but when you investigate the juses 3 days you will find the reality that he had no likeness with the Prophet Johna.
you have more than 73 version of Bible and no two of them are identical.You people just have belief on fantasy stories and fabrications..

if you are an open minded person and want to seriously learned reality. i suggest you to see the vedio and books of ahmed deedat . they are freely available on the net and all vedios are available on the youtube.
i am not praising him because he was muslim but actually He was the legend. When you start seeing with non biasly his debates with your main scholars like jimmy swagart etc and speeches on your all topics, you will inclined to accept the facts he presents.., He was more learned and intresting man..

 

[Zundrah]

Salaam/Peace


.


but in the Catholic forum , I met some Catholics who are married to non-Catholics , even with Muslims. Well , I did not ask them where they got married .

Their husband/ wife must have lied to the priest when they made their vows. They have pretended to go along with it just for the marriage.

 

[Zundrah]

you says juses died for your sins...

We believe that Jesus was God, and that He took the place of the animal that usually would be sacrificed to pay for sins. Jesus, being God, was enough to pay for all sins until the end of the world/ His second coming.

have you any sense like things.A Person committ murder and we give punishment to a non associated person..

We must obey the laws of the country we live in. If they must go to jail or be hung, then we must allow that.

what the childish and fantasy stories you have. you have made fun with the religion that only belief on juses is required for salvation.

Of course, Jesus (being God) will forgive our sins no matter what we do, becuase when he sacrificed Himself on the cross no sin was ever too much for Him to pardon. The same goes for any sin commited today or tomorrow.

You have no proof for juses crucifixion. it is cruici fiction..

Crucifixion, was a very common way to execute a criminal back in Rome. Jesus commited a crime by saying that He was God, so He was executed for it. It is only logical to believe that He was crucified.

you can read the story of johna miracles when he save after 3 days and 3 night. The juses had told that he will resemmbles with him and your 3 days of easter also due to this. but when you investigate the juses 3 days you will find the reality that he had no likeness with the Prophet Johna.

Elaborate some more.

you have more than 73 version of Bible and no two of them are identical.You people just have belief on fantasy stories and fabrications..

There are protestant bibles that were deliberately written in a corrupt manner.

if you are an open minded person and want to seriously learned reality. i suggest you to see the vedio and books of ahmed deedat . they are freely available on the net and all vedios are available on the youtube.

I did once watch a DVD on a sermon about Islam. The teacher was a muslim of course.

i am not praising him because he was muslim but actually He was the legend. When you start seeing with non biasly his debates with your main scholars like jimmy swagart etc and speeches on your all topics, you will inclined to accept the facts he presents.., He was more learned and intresting man

I am sure he is very well educated. I will keep an open mind.

 

[crackz]

why paul said this, "IF JESUS was not resurrected our preaching is vain and our faith is vain". I ask you why he has to say this. Why? Is there any doubt? Why Mary Macdelin was overjoyed when she saw a live Jesus whereas his disciples were all afraid. What is the reason behind two sharply contradicting reaction on seeing a live Jesus. Open you mind I hope you would agree crucifixion is a hoax. Jesus is god is also a Hoax.


Before Abraham was born, I am! does not mean anything. It should be "Before Abraham was born, I was (in their books)".before John the bapptist and Jesus was born, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was (in their books). Read prophecy of Prophet Muhammad in the book of Moses (PBUH) in the orld testimony. NOTE THAT PAST, FUTURE, AND PRESENT are identical to the creator of time.

 

[crackz]

John 8:58 (New International Version)

Before Abraham was born (i.e., preAbrahamic faiths), I am (prophesied in their books).

This verse clearly indicate preabrahamic faiths contained prophecies of coming prophets. This is true because ALLAH (SWT) said in the KORAN," We have send every nations prophets and messengers to warn them". Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was also prophesied before christian faith was born in their books. Therefore I can say
John 8:58 (New International Version)
Before JESUS was born (i.e., prechristian faiths), I am (prophesied in their books).

AND THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TURE. READ the prophecy of Prophet Muhammad in http://unveiling-christianity.com, www.islamreligion.com, www.jews-for-allah.com

 

[crackz]

John 8:58 (New International Version)

Before Abraham was born (i.e., in preAbrahamic faiths), I am (prophesied in their books).

This verse clearly indicate preabrahamic faiths contained prophecies of coming prophets. This is true because ALLAH (SWT) said in the KORAN," We have send every nations prophets and messengers to warn them". Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was also prophesied before christian faith was born in their books. Therefore I can say
John 8:58 (New International Version)
Before JESUS was born (i.e., in prechristian faiths), I am (prophesied in their books).

AND THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TURE. READ the prophecy of Prophet Muhammad in http://unveiling-christianity.com, www.islamreligion.com, www.jews-for-allah.com

 

[Zundrah]

why paul said this, "IF JESUS was not resurrected our preaching is vain and our faith is vain". I ask you why he has to say this. Why? Is there any doubt?

Paul said this because some people doubted the fact that at the end of the age, there will be a ressurrection.

Why Mary Macdelin was overjoyed when she saw a live Jesus whereas his disciples were all afraid. What is the reason behind two sharply contradicting reaction on seeing a live Jesus.

She adored Him. I do also. Her faith was obviously greater than that of the apostels.

Before Abraham was born, I am! does not mean anything. It should be "Before Abraham was born, I was (in their books)".before John the bapptist and Jesus was born, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was (in their books). Read prophecy of Prophet Muhammad in the book of Moses (PBUH) in the orld testimony. NOTE THAT PAST, FUTURE, AND PRESENT are identical to the creator of time

Yahweh revealed His name to Moses. Jesus used the formula "I am" because that was Gods name revealed to Moses.

John 8:58 (New International Version)

Before Abraham was born (i.e., preAbrahamic faiths), I am (prophesied in their books).

This verse clearly indicate preabrahamic faiths contained prophecies of coming prophets. This is true because ALLAH (SWT) said in the KORAN," We have send every nations prophets and messengers to warn them". Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was also prophesied before christian faith was born in their books. Therefore I can say
John 8:58 (New International Version)
Before JESUS was born (i.e., prechristian faiths), I am (prophesied in their books).

AND THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TURE. READ the prophecy of Prophet Muhammad in http://unveiling-christianity.com, www.islamreligion.com, www.jews-for-allah.com

....there is a problem here. You are quoting from the Koran to tell me what is wrong with my faith in Christ.

We have send every nations prophets and messengers to warn them".

I know that you believed Christ to be one of those prophets that were to convert all nations they went to.

John 8:58 (New International Version)
Before JESUS was born (i.e., prechristian faiths), I am (prophesied in their books).

Christians are the advancement of the Jews. The Jews knew that "I am" was the name of God. When Jesus said to the Jews "before Abraham was I am" they threw stones at Him only because "I am" was the name of God, they knew He was claiming to be God.

 

[غزالی]

We believe that Jesus was God, and that He took the place of the animal that usually would be sacrificed to pay for sins. Jesus, being God, was enough to pay for all sins until the end of the world/ His second coming.



We must obey the laws of the country we live in. If they must go to jail or be hung, then we must allow that.



Of course, Jesus (being God) will forgive our sins no matter what we do, becuase when he sacrificed Himself on the cross no sin was ever too much for Him to pardon. The same goes for any sin commited today or tomorrow.



Crucifixion, was a very common way to execute a criminal back in Rome. Jesus commited a crime by saying that He was God, so He was executed for it. It is only logical to believe that He was crucified.

Brother you have to prove what you are saying on the basis of those fabricated statements of bibles, many of which has been thrownout in modern king james version and revised standard version.
here i am posting from your bible, your open required to understand these.

IS JESUS GOD: WHAT BIBLE SAYS ABOUT ITS REALITY ? (SEE DETAIL)
1. Bible says that God is not Man
The Bible says:
Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man…”
Hosea 11:9 “...For I am God, and not man...”
Jesus is called a man many times in the Bible:
John 8:40 “…a man who has told you the truth…”
Acts 2:22 “Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.”
Acts 17:31 “He will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom He has appointed”
1. Tim. 2:5 “…the man Christ Jesus.”
God is not a man, but Jesus, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, was a man, therefore, Jesus was not God.

2. The Bible Says that God Is Not a Son of Man
Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man...nor a son of man…”
The Bible often calls Jesus “a son of man” or “the son of man.”
Matthew 12:40 “…so will the son of man be…”
Matthew 16:27 “For the son of man is going to come…”
Matthew 28 “…until they see the son of man coming in His kingdom.”
Mark 2:10 “But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authori-ty…”
John 5:27 “…because He is the son of man.”
In the Hebrew Scriptures, the “son of man” is also used many times speak-ing of people (Job 25:6; Psalm 80:17; 144:3; Ezekiel 2:1; 2:3; 2:6; 2:8; 3:1; 3:3; 3:4; 3:10; 3:17; 3:25).
Since God would not contradict Himself by first saying He is not the son of a man, then becoming a human being who was called “the son of man”, he would not have done so. Remember God is not the author of confusion. Also, human beings, including Jesus, are called “son of man” specifically to distinguish them from God, who is not a “son of man” according to the Bible.

3. The Bible says that Jesus Denied He is God
Luke 18:19 Jesus spoke to a man who had called him “good,” asking him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.”
Matthew 19:17 and he said to him, “Why are you asking me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
Jesus did not teach people that he was God. If Jesus had been telling people that he was God, he would have complimented the man. Instead, Jesus rebuked him, denying he was good, that is, Jesus denied he was God.

4. The Bible says that God is Greater than Jesus

John 14:28 “My Father is greater than I.”
John 10:29 “My father is greater than all.”
Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.

5. Jesus Never Instructed His Disciples to Worship Himself or the Holy Ghost, but God and God Only

Luke 11:2 “When you pray, say Our Father which art in heaven.”
John 16:23 “In that day, you shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever you ask of the Father in my name.”
John 4:23 “The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him.”
If Jesus was God, he would have sought worship for himself. Since he didn’t, instead he sought worship for God in the heavens, therefore, he was not God.

6. The Bible Says that Jesus Recognized, Prayed, & Worshipped the Only True God
Jesus prayed to God with the words:
John 17:3 “…that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Chr-ist whom you have sent.”
Jesus prayed to God all night:
Luke 6:12 “he continued all night in prayer to God.”
…because:
Matthew 20:28: Just as the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve.
How did Jesus pray to God?
Matthew 26:39 ‘…he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, How did Jesus pray to God?‘

WAS HE SAY "My Father…” ?
Even Paul said:
Hebrews 5:7 “During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.”
Who was Jesus praying to when he fell on his face with loud cries and petitions? Was it himself? Was Jesus crying in tears to himself pleading to be saved from death? No man, sane or insane, prays to himself! Surely the answer must be a resounding ‘No.’ Jesus was praying to “the only true God.” Jesus was the servant of the One Who sent him. Can there be a clearer proof that Jesus was not God?
The Quran confirms that Jesus called for the worship of the Only True God:
“Truly, God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (alone). This is the straight path.” (Quran 3:51)

7. The Bible says that the disciples did not believe Jesus was God.

The Acts of the Apostles in the Bible details the activity of the disciples over a period of thirty years after Jesus, may God praise him, was raised to heaven. Throughout this period, they never referred to Jesus as God. For instance Peter stood up with the eleven disciples and addressed a crowd saying:
Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man ac-credited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.”
For Peter, Jesus was a servant of God (confirmed in Matthew 12:18):
Acts 3:13 “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.”
Acts 3:26 “God raised up his servant...”
When faced by opposition from the authorities, Peter said:
Acts 5:29-30 “We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus...”
The disciples prayed to God just as they were commanded by Jesus in Luke 11:2, and considered Jesus to be God’s servant,
Acts 4:24 “...they raised their voices together in prayer to God. ‘Sovereign Lord,’ they said, ‘you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and eve-rything in them.’”
Acts 4:27 “...your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.”
Acts 4:30 “…of Your holy servant Jesus.”
This is exactly what the Quran states of Jesus:
Quran 19: 30 “…I am indeed a servant of God.”

8. The Bible says that Jesus was God’s servant, chosen one, and beloved.

Matt. 12:18 “Behold, My servant, whom I have chosen, in whom My soul is well pleased.”
Since Jesus is God’s servant, Jesus can not be God.

9. The Bible says that Jesus could not Do Anything by Himself.
John 5:19 “The son can do nothing by himself; he can only do what he sees his Father doing.”
John 5:30 “I can of mine own self do nothing.”
Jesus did not consider himself equal with God; rather he denied doing anything by himself.

10. The Bible says that God performed miracles through Jesus & Jesus was limited in what he could do.

Matt. 9:8 “But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glori-fied God, who had given such authority to men.”
Acts 2:22 “a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst.”
Acts 10:38 “…he went about doing good and healing all who were op-pressed by the devil, for God was with Him.”
If Christ was God, the Bible would simply say that Jesus did the miracles himself without making reference to God. The fact that it was God supply-ing the power for the miracles shows that God is greater than Jesus.
Also, Jesus was limited in performing miracles. One time when Jesus tried to heal a blind man, the man was not healed after the first attempt, and Jesus had to try a second time (Mark 8:22-26). Once a woman was healed of her incurable bleeding. The woman came up behind him and touched his cloak, and she was immediately healed. But Jesus had no idea who touched him:
Mark 5:30 “At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, ‘Who touched my clothes?’”
Mark 6:5 “He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.”
Quite obviously, someone with such limitations can not be God. The pow-er of miracles was not within Jesus.

11. The Bible says that at times of weakness angels strengthened Jesus; God, however, does not need to be strengthened.
Luke 22:43 “An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him [in the garden of Gethsemane].”
Mk. 1:13 “Then the devil left him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.”
Mark 1:13 “And he was in the wilderness forty days being tempted by Satan; and he was with the wild beasts, and the angels were ministering to him.”
Men need to be strengthened; God does not because God is All-Powerful. If Jesus had to be strengthened, he must not be God.

12. The Bible says that Jesus wanted God’s will to be done, not his own.
Luke 22:42: “not my will but Yours be done.”
John 5:30 “I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.”
John 6:38 “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.”
Are some members of the coequal Trinity subservient, and less than equal, to other members? Even though they have different wills (“I do not seek my own will”), do they obey without question the others’ commands (“the will of Him who sent me”)? Jesus admits to subordinating his own distinct will, yet according to the Trinitarian doctrine they should all have the same will. Should one of the triune partners have to forgo his own will in favor of the will of another member of the Trinity? Should not they all have the exact same will?

13. The Bible says Jesus regarded God’s testimony as separate from his own.

Jesus regarded himself and God as two, not “one.”
John 8:17 and 18: “I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father.”
John 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.”
If Jesus was God, He would have not have regarded God’s testimony as separate from his own.

14. Bible says that Jesus had limited knowledge, but god’s knowledge is infinite

Mark 13:32 “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the son, but only the Father.”
Since Jesus, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, did not know, he was not all-knowing, and therefore, he cannot be the God whose knowledge is all-encompassing.

15. Bible says that Jesus was tempted, but God cannot be tempted
Heb. 4:15 “tempted in every way—just as we are”
James 1:13 “for God cannot be tempted by evil”
Since God can not be tempted, but Jesus was, therefore, Jesus was not God.

16. Bible says that Jesus died, but God cannot die
The Bible teaches that Jesus died. God cannot die. Romans 1:23 and other verses say that God is immortal. Immortal means, “not subject to death.” This term applies only to God.
20. Bible says that Jesus lived because of God
John 6:57 “I live because of the Father.”
Jesus cannot be God because he depended on God for his own existence.

17. Bible says that Jesus was lower than angels
Hebrews 2:9 “But we do see him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus.”
God, the Creator of angels, can not be lower than His own creation, but Jesus was. Therefore, Jesus was not God.

18. Bible says that Jesus called the GOD “my God”
Matt. 27:46 “My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?”
John 20:17 “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.”
Rev. 3:12 “… the temple of my God… the name of my God… the city of my God… comes down out of heaven from my God.”
Jesus did not think of himself as God, instead Jesus’ God is the same as ours.
26. Bible says that God cannot be seen, but Jesus was
John 1:18 “no man has seen God at any time.”






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