My Brother's Girlfriend

[//-Asif-\\]

I want to discuss an issue that has been wracking my brain and has kept me up nights at times and it has to do with my younger brother. I am the oldest (22) of three American born brothers (20 and 17). We've grown up and went through a lot of the same experiences in public school, the same exposure and the like. And we have all went through phases where Islam had drifted from us and we've struggled to improve ourselves. In my high school years I really started to focus on the deen and as I got older and progressed in knowledge, I've really become a better Muslim and a better human being mentally and the like. My brothers, specifically my youngest one still needs to get into the act of taking Islam seriously, acquiring more knowledge and letting Islam direct his life and all.

I know that high school has really affected my brother, friends and the like. And I know that he's been messing with girls, most were not serious til about a year ago when I realized that he had a girlfriend. Once I found out about it, I talked with my brother nicely about the fact that bf/gf are not allowed in Islam, something he already knew. I told him that he needs to let this girl know that it can't work out and that he can't be with her and to get around to it. Instead, he took no action. I became more assertive with the issue and even gave him some Islamic articles to read on dating in Islam and videos on it by Baba Ali and scholars and the like that make it clear that it is a big no-no and very logical reasons why. Yet still there was no action taken pretty much in one ear and out the other.

Time goes by and I notice that they were getting really "lovey dovey" with facebook/myspace messages to one another, saying that they're in love to their friends and pictures of them kissing and hugging all over for all to see. I got a bit more stern with him saying that this isn't a joke and that he's trudging along on a very risky and dangerous path. I tell him that shaitan is the third party and that he will do whatever it takes to corrupt you. That having a girlfriend and this lovey stuff feels nice and attractive but it will end up hurting you in this life and DEFINITELY in the next. He would come home late after school and it's obvious that he's with her since she lives directly beside the school. Whenever I talk to him, though, he just quietly listens but never gives any feedback even when I ask him to respond. Our parents know about this girl and have done yelling and demanded that this cease and that's it. Not much action beside yelling at him which seems to not do much or anything. It's gotten to the point where my parents have kinda given up because they feel its hopeless and they feel powerless, which I'm saddened by. I've even told him that he needs to make more time for studying his deen and gaining fear of Allah cause he seems to not have much fear if he's doing this all openly. I know he talks about what I say to him to his girlfriend because I've stumbled upon chat msgs they've sent one another. His girlfriend views this as a challenge and a Romeo and Juliet story that intrigues her!

I went as far to even talk to his girlfriend via email and tell her that this isn't right and even kinda give Dawah to her and let her know the reasons why my brother can't be with her or any other girl. She would respond back nicely saying she respects the religion and all but it's up to my brother and says that they love eachother a lot and blah blah blah. She's a christian by the way. I've had talks off and on with my brother for a whole while and they seem counterproductive because he gets deeper and deeper into this relationship. They talk on the phone for hours, text eachother, and SHE buys him stuff. She spoils my brother silly, buying him clothes, food, and going as far as to buy a Playstation 3 for his birthday and of course he's loving it and it's infuriating me because he's ignoring Islam and Allah and the consequences and continuing on this haram path as if he hasn't a care in the world.

Its even gone as far as me seeing photos that he has stored in his folder on my computer of her naked! Nude pictures of her that I stumbled across just today! Now all I'm thinking is what could they possibly be doing? I'm going to have a talk with him today but really what approach should I take. I've made countless duas and all and Allah has exposed him now when he has said that what they are doing is innocent. What needs to be done to someone that isn't budging from talks i've had with him. I've tried every approach: informative, helpful, friendly, stern, aggressive, angry and all have failed. Things are looking worse and worse. What can be an effective way to get him out of this foolishness and take a turn for the better.

What advice can you guys give me?

Thank you

Salaam

 

[farhan2]

Assalamualalykum.

subhanAllah I thought what can you really do until i read the last part. It is now getting to the point that its extremely a huge issue. It is very problematic as to the relationship going so far as nudity. Allahu Alam. if all paths you have taken to get through to him have not worked, then I am thinking, are there any other people that are close to him. maybe you can speak to them.
I am seriously puzzled.
Do your parents know about the last part yet??
im guessing not as your little brother doesnt know you know of this yet.
My advice to you, in acting towards this unsightly stuff is that please do not go barmy on him. AS MUCH AS I FEEL AND KNOW YOUR PAIN and would probably want to hit the roof and go all out on him, it wont be the right way to go about it. as youve said shouting wont do anything.

I am seriously baffed. as to what approach can be taken now..
I think you should maybe speak to a senior that is understanding and of knowledge. Not an uncle type imam that will go barmy on you but to one that can give you honest advice and who has experiance in dealing with this issue.

If your brother is not going to listen to you or your parents then who will he listen to. Im guessing his friends who he keeps close to him. so thats the real and only viable route i can think of right now.

may I ask a favour. can I take your post and post it on a forum 'annoymously' and see what type of reply i can get. I know many of the bros and sisters on it and alhamdulillah they always give decent advice.
we have a user account that is accesible to all members which is kept annonymous. so no one knows who it is.?

only with your permission shall I proceed and then inshAllah get back to you.

 

[//-Asif-\\]

Yeah sure, go ahead, I need all the opinions I can get. No my parents do not know yet. My middle brother and I both know about the pictures, he actually saw them first so us two older brothers are going to sit an talk this out with my youngest bro without involvement from my parents yet cause my parents would definitely go nuts.

I've thought the same thing. What the heck else can be done about this. I know my brother means well but he's really in the wrong crowd. His friends opinions or more importantly his girlfriends opinion means more than the advice the family gives. He even admits to being lazy when it comes to the deen and admits that he really isn't learned enough about the deen than he should be. I know that he's tried to talk to his girlfriend about Islam kinda like in hopes that she'll convert but that won't make things any better.

I'm aware this is a very difficult situation. I don't think a scholar or some learned elder will help much either. I'm just hoping that us being aware of the photos scares the daylights out of him, humiliates and humbles him. I can let him know that Allah just exposed him when he thought that he was fooling everyone with innocent intentions. I really think that this girl has such a grip on him that he can't think straight.

 

[Humbler_359]

:wa: Brother Asif,

It must be very tough situation as I can imagine how I would react to this problems. Alot of teenagers these days are having fun and would say to grab everything whatever they want so called "Life is Short."

Does it help your bro to learn about you and your wife as role model?

I can see, he goes too far with pre-martial relationship, he have to understand the fact, his "girlfriend" is not permanent relationship. What will happen to him if his gf gone to other guy another years? What will happen he will find another second gf or even third? It will create a huge problems.

Few options here I can think:

I would say, disown him if your parent have a gut. Let him know, 'we want you a happy life, not this kind of temporary relationship.' Let him decide. I know, it is difficult to say but overall he didn't do right things at all without listening or mutual respects to you or your parents.

I would say, move to different locations as far as possible away from these bad crowds. Maybe it will scared him, maybe he will do something better.

Best possible, invite your little brother to go Mosque regularly with you and develop good relationship and keep more laugh, he will realize what a wonderful family you have. It is better to avoid confrontation, yelling, and beating up that are all useless. Time will goes pass, he will grow up more and will look back, saying "friends (including gf) are always changing every year, but real family is stable and strong bond relationship, not change." He will start first step on learning the meaning of life in Islam.

I hope I can help a bit. I understood parents are affected by this emotionally and physically.

 

[//-Asif-\\]

I've talked to him about how I've handled things with my wife and the right way to do things. I don't think disowning him will happen or moving away will help any nor is it possible for us to do.

He's just going to have to learn his lesson the hard way by being exposed to the whole family. The girl is also going to know that our family knows about the pictures she's sent and may not want to put up with that type of embarrassment and humiliation and may just want to end the relationship there. Either way I believe once we confront him on it the relationship will go downhill but the main thing that needs to occur is him learning from this exposure and turning back to Allah in repentance and reforming himself as a better Muslim.

 

[glo]

Greetings, Asif

I am not a Muslim, so perhaps my opinion and advice is of no help or relevance to you. I let you be the judge of that.

I understand that your brother's behaviour is of grave concern to you, and that you want what you believe is best for him.

... But your brother does have the right to some privacy - and at the moment you are invading his privacy quite seriously!
Should you and your other brother really have looked at the pictures of the girlfriend in the nude?
How will your brother feel when he is exposed to the whole family?

I think you risk alienating him and driving him further away - away from yourself, from the whole family, perhaps even from Islam ...

I hope and pray that things will work out for the best for all of you!

 

[//-Asif-\\]

... But your brother does have the right to some privacy - and at the moment you are invading his privacy quite seriously!
Should you and your other brother really have looked at the pictures of the girlfriend in the nude?
How will your brother feel when he is exposed to the whole family?

I understand a person's right to privacy but it was not like I got on my computer and started deliberately snooping around looking for something that I can use to condemn him. Plus it's my computer that he has been going on and using for this so he's practically putting himself at risk if he slips up and leaves something out in the open, doesn't erase them etc.

If we would have never found out about this, the charade that he has been putting on would continue and he would never learn any lesson from his wrong doing. We aren't looking for trouble, but trouble apparently stumbled at our doorstep.

I have yet to speak to him but will do when he gets home about this. I'm sure he will be humiliated about the whole situation but it's nothing that God hasn't spoken about. My brother has been doing many things he shouldn't, all while thinking that no one will find out when Allah is right there seeing everything he's doing. There is no privacy when it comes to God. If he was worried about my parents finding out or me finding out then he should be a thousand times more worried that God ALREADY KNOWS what he's been doing and how he can easily expose him whenever He wills and put him in disgrace either in this life or the next.

This relationship has gone on long enough with him not being concerned about his actions or the thoughts of his family or his religion for that matter. This I feel is a major wake up call to him or a major slap in the face to snap him out of this state that he is in.

 

[aadil77]

Brother no offence but from what I'm reading here you and your parents dont sound very serious about it. Its not about him not having enough time to study deen, its not about you becoming embarassed or saddened about the pictures. Its about the huge sins he could be commiting!

Do you not realise that he could be commiting zina with this girl? can't you or your parents use some force to stop him, you and your parents sound like they're more scared of the laws against child abuse or whatever than you are of Allah. Honestly bro I dont what culture you're from, but in my culture if you get caught doing anythin with a girl you get battered and you get kicked out the house. Sorry to say this but the fact that he's had the opportunity to take it this far whilst still living in your house just shows what your family upbringing is like.

Sort him out physically or let him go packing and make his own way if he carrys on. I'd also humilate him in the community, I'd name and shame him, he's already sinning openly so theres nothing wrong in doing that. He's gotta learn so let him learn the hard way

 

[The Ruler]

aadil77, the brother did mention being aggressive in his opening post.

I do think that you should limit his freedom. Drive him to school; bring him back; accompany him whenever possible; take away his phone/laptop/computer etc; take him to Islamic gatherings and so on.

 

[//-Asif-\\]

None taken brother. I understand the severity of the situation but we live in America where of course outside of a Muslim family this stuff is normal which makes life for Muslims trying to stay on the straight path really tough. Doing what you said may or may not be effective but the family would look bad in the eyes of the community around us.

My parents have strong feelings on this type of behavior but they're also not very authoritative and strict as Muslim parents should be. I have even told my brother that he should be glad that our parents are kind enough to give you the benefit of the doubt and aren't punishing him, beating him down or shipping him off to Pakistan or something like that. The fact is that he's doing this all in school and my parents are getting old and all and can't keep tabs on him at all times. The family all has their own worries to deal with that sometimes he can slip by and do what he feels without us being able to do anything since we're occupied with something else.

I've told him that he is lucky that they (my parents) are a little more laid-back than most, NOT in the case of just allowing evil to happen but just in the case of not taking severe action when it comes to being caught and punished. They yell at him, they chastise him, they take away certain privileges but nothing really farther than that. And I've told him that he is lucky to have parents like that cause other parents would make him wish he never even looked or thought about a girl much less hook up with one.

I've also told him in the past that because of this, he should not take advantage of my parents by doing whatever he feels and he should worry the most about Allah and the fact that his punishment is more severe than anyone else's. But he's being really hard headed on that which I'm sure is from his girlfriend's words.

Nevertheless, you are right that action must be taken and we can't just sit around and just warn him and admonish him but do nothing more. Inshallah, Allah will find a way that we can handle this in the best manner where something can actually be accomplished.

 

[ChOcCi]

@aadil, calm down, like EVERYONE else in this thread said, doing what you advised Asif to do will NEVER work. Trust me. When I was younger, when my parents or my grandma beat me up with a stick, it hurt like mad, but the pain only infuriated me and made me disobey them more. And now that they gave me some space to improve, I actually became quite obedient now..

@asif: Well, first of, teach your brother how to hide or to put passwords on folders.. and hey! PS3 for his birthday?? Man hes lucky ^_^ haha just kidding

Well, my best advice is this, make him read this link:

http://www.islamic-world.net/boy_girl.php

This was the link that had TOTALLY convinced me to not go into dating business and hopefully it will help your brother as well. Its written by a VERY good scholar by the looks of it and he even provides you a solution to the dating problem if it CANNOT be avoided at all costs. Please, for your brothers sake, DO read it. From personal experience, it helped me.

And PLEASE dont be hasty and expose your bro to your family just yet. Show this to him first and make him swear --- that he will follow that site's advice.. If he does, I believe you can give him another chance. Please try this.

 

[جوري]

18:17---[SIZE=-1]He whom Allah guideth, he indeed is led aright, and he whom He sendeth astray, for him thou wilt not find a guiding friend.


I think what you are doing by making dua'a and talking to him is really all you can offer.. a man is held in pledge for his own deeds really, if anyone could change another, then the prophet PBUH would have been able to convert his beloved uncle and to spare him hell-fire?

I think you should keep doing what you are doing and not despair from the mercy of Allah swt but that is as far as your duty is concerned..

and Allah swt knows best


[/SIZE]

 

[Snowflake]

I don't think a scholar or some learned elder will help much either.

..Because people can only advise but it is Allah Who guides. You can push with the weight of one thousand men, but it won't make a difference unless you ask and earn Allah's help. Don't expose your brother's sins, no matter how much good you think it will do him. Don't create witnesses to testify against him on the Day of Reckoning. Do unto him as you'd like done to you. And when someone invites you to witness what is forbidden for you to do, then admonish them and do not participate in what they have called you to.

We are only able to do what Allah allows. You tried your best, but as you see, even your best efforts remained futile. Life makes us admit that..

Laa hawla walaa quwwata illah billah
There is no power and no might except by Allah.​

So turn to the One whose is the dominion and Who is able to do all things. Worship Him, Praise Him, glorify Him and beseech Him and do so in excess in the dead of the night. Only Allah has the power to do what we can't. Call onto Him with a sincere and believing heart. Allah is Just. Allah is the Greatest. Go and ask Him for your needs.

:wa:

 

[aadil77]

Brother these things do happen and for the good of the person some drastic decisions have to be taken. If you're worried about the family image, you're family will look worse if you do nothing, let it happen and make it seem acceptable to have girlfriends, do zina and the lot, punishing him will atleast show that you care about his welfare and take these major sins in islam seriously.

If words aren't working for him and he's clearly rejecting Allah's orders, your orders and your parents orders, then you're gonna have to use a bit of force and give him the boot. I'm telling you it will work, a few days on his own at the hands of Allah will make him realise what he took for granted and what he did wrong.
Trust me, I've seen it happen, this guy I knew who was disrespectful to his mum, he got kicked out and he had to carry around his things in bin bags around college until he could get the bus after college to stay with his friend.

Let him get a kick of the dunya he's running after so desperately.

 

[ChOcCi]

There is still time dude. Use those methods if all else fails. There are BETTER methods to show him the right path, trust me. And I believe telling his friends to intervene on this relationship is a ingenious idea.. It should be used first.. And please read scents of jannah's post, its very true.. you should not expose someone like that. That was a great post SoJ, thank you

 

[//-Asif-\\]

There is still time dude. Use those methods if all else fails. There are BETTER methods to show him the right path, trust me. And I believe telling his friends to intervene on this relationship is a ingenious idea.. It should be used first.. And please read scents of jannah's post, its very true.. you should not expose someone like that. That was a great post SoJ, thank you

You all have given some good advice. But telling his friends to intervene? The friends that encourage him to be like him, to date, that encourage all this behavior. The friends that invite him to the wrong path? Do that first? I don't know how in any way that is an ingenious idea as it is a counterproductive idea.

 

[Ansariyah]

MashaAllah ur bro is so lucky to have a big bro like u, looking out for him n caring about him so much.

Does he like reading?

wud be nice to get him some nice islamic books, like those darusalam sahabi books, they're thin easy to read. This way he can learn about the character of the sahabis who accepted Islam.

the books look like this: they have them in every sahaba u can imagine.
http://www.dar-us-salam.com/images/large/139-UmarAl-Khattab.jpg

I wud also suggest to take him to lectures, i know that khalid yasin seems to be very popular among yung bros, i know lots of lost bros who benefited from his dawah technique. u shud get him to watch From the Root to the Fruit.

 

[kwolney01]

Brother these things do happen and for the good of the person some drastic decisions have to be taken. If you're worried about the family image, you're family will look worse if you do nothing, let it happen and make it seem acceptable to have girlfriends, do zina and the lot, punishing him will atleast show that you care about his welfare and take these major sins in islam seriously.

If words aren't working for him and he's clearly rejecting Allah's orders, your orders and your parents orders, then you're gonna have to use a bit of force and give him the boot. I'm telling you it will work, a few days on his own at the hands of Allah will make him realise what he took for granted and what he did wrong.
Trust me, I've seen it happen, this guy I knew who was disrespectful to his mum, he got kicked out and he had to carry around his things in bin bags around college until he could get the bus after college to stay with his friend.

Let him get a kick of the dunya he's running after so desperately.

Brother, we live in America. My husbands (Asif) brother is only 17 years old and is still in high school. If they were to kick him out of the house where do you think he'd go? He would most likely go to his friends house whom are good friends with his girlfriend or go to his girlfriends house! His girlfriend lives right across the street from the high school.

Plus, in America if parents kick their minor (under the age of 18) children out of the home they will get in huge trouble from the government for abandoning their children. The child will be taken away from the parents and put into some type of foster home or child protection institution.

Kicking his brother out of the home would, in my opinion, not be a good idea at all.

Also, I think it is best that the parents know what is going on. Think about it from their perspective. What if you were a parent and your child is doing these things and your other children know but decided not to tell you? How would you feel? Right now his parents think it's only talking going on. After they know about this they will take further action to make sure he stays away from her.

I do agree, that he should be picked up from school and his cell phone should be taken away.

Asif did not go around searching for this information either, the pictures were opened up on the computer when he got on and he just so happened to see them.

Thanks for all of your advice.

 

[cat eyes]

considering his age i believe these things are best left in the hands of Allah humans will make mistakes especially when there young an at school and studying because they mingle with all sorts of people.. it would not matter how strict or soft your parents are. i believe that its better to make these type of mistakes when your young instead of old you can tell them until they are blue in the face they will not listen so i would just leave it here. trust me this romance will not last long, she will end up breaking his heart then he will come crying to you so people learn and grow by living this life style all you will get is a miserable life in the end. let him see for himself! this is the law of Allah. this is how humans learn and repent and mend there ways. so i try not to put my foot in things like this and because what sister glo said is right it will drive your brother further away from islam

 

[Proud of Islam]

... But your brother does have the right to some privacy - and at the moment you are invading his privacy quite seriously!
Should you and your other brother really have looked at the pictures of the girlfriend in the nude?

But does the youngest brother himself have the right to see that nasty pictures? All the three brothers and any other man are strangers for that girl with no any difference, since none of them is her husband.. If we talk about privacy, we should blame the two, not Asif.. If we talk about privacy we should blame the girl who doesn’t keep the privacy of herself, and give that kind of pictures for a stranger.. If we talk about privacy, we should blame the youngest brother who doesn’t keep the privacy of other girls by walking in this nasty path..May Allah guide both of them to the clean, right, and perfect path..

Asif.. It’s great that you care about your brothers.. Personally, I see that talking about death is the most that makes us fear Allah more.. Tell him to ask himself what if he died while he was with that girl? How he will respond to Allah after being in that awful situation? I suggest searching for Islamic audio or video (I think they’d be better than reading books in the case of your brother) that are talking about sins, death, grave punishment, the Day of Judgment and the fire..
I don’t think you have a sister, do you? If so, it will be good if you ask him whether he accepts that a strange man does such bad things with your sister..
And encourage him to fill his time with other things like sports (you and your other brother can go with him), studying (try to increase his ambition to get high marks), family sittings, family trips and other things.. BUT, without linking this to the girlfriend issue; I mean without saying that you’re trying to fill his time in order to reduce the time spent with that girlfriend..
May Allah protect your brother & guide him to be a good Muslim insha’Allah..


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…