my thoughts.....

[Ummu Sufyaan]

assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

yes a muqallid must follow a sheikh as his knowledge is very little.
logic also dictates whilst following an a sheikh one trusts as sheikh albaani/uthaymeen and many others rahmatullahi alayh ajmaeen have said naturally if that sheikh is a scholar or a person of high ilm and is searching of knowledge then he will have a madhaahib, it is required is it not? So thus every person in essence does indeed follow a madhab, due to the madhab of their sheikh...


i hope that makes sense, wa allahu a'lam

may Allah give us the tawfeeq to remain true muwahhids, to have adhaab during ikhtilaaf, to accept ikhtilaaf, and to stay upon as-siraatul mustaqeem.

Ameen

i didn't get that bit. i did, but i thought that when someone learns the deen, they dont get taught according to certain mathhab? generally speaking.
btw, out of my whole post, why are we picking on this point. lol

 

[sevgi]

i said:

he died before the daleel could reach him or before he cud study it...

then u quoted and said:

this is what gets to me. not all the daleels reach the imams. but even after relaible evidence is shown to some people, they still stick to the imams opinion, even though its wrong.

so i said that they didnt say anything abt issues they didnt recieve daleel on...

i dnt think the imaams made wrong rulings...ppl are rite in following them...

but if there is a topic which was left blank..then they shud look for the best interpretation...

and yes,...they shudnt get too fanatic.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i didn't get that bit. i did, but i thought that when someone learns the deen, they dont get taught according to certain mathhab? generally speaking.
btw, out of my whole post, why are we picking on this point. lol

assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah

sister where do you think usool ul fiqh, usool ul hadith etc has come from? it was from the shurah of 50 scholars that imam abu hanifa had conducted. The very method of gaining knowledge, the system and foundation was laid by these great eminent fuqaaha/ulaama/mujtahids/muhaditheen ! they were worried about the future of this ummah, how will they know right from wrong? what fiqh will they follow? will they take knowledge from those who have none etc etc thus they put forth this huge effort. Over 150,000 fiqh issues were covered within 10 years by the noble council.

So after expounding on that sister i want to tell you that people do initially begin gaining knowledge by learning the positions of the madhaahib, then they learn the dalaa'il, if they reach a very high level they can get further. But initially it is learning the madhaahib where it starts...

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

jazakallahu kahir. im with ya now sis sumeyye. i feel alot better about this now. all of ya's. perhaps i can see it from a different window. i shall sleep with a more relaxed mind, inshallah.
jazakallah sis malaikah, inshallah ill read the article later, my brain is slowly shutting down.

 

[sevgi]

madhabs deal with everyday issues which are vital today..

someone learning new would need to learn these....

tahts why they start with madhab...or are taught with madhab...

peace.

 

[Malaikah]

the bolded bit i didn't get, but the rest, i totally understand. it feels weird to follow other than that of the daleel. im right with ya.

Even when you follow a madhab, you can still look at the proofs. That way you are following the madhab but you know the proofs for it too.

i didn't get that bit. i did, but i thought that when someone learns the deen, they dont get taught according to certain mathhab? generally speaking.
btw, out of my whole post, why are we picking on this point. lol

The only way to study Islam is through a madhab. There is no other way, as far as I know. After you learn on madhab, then you compare between other madhabs etc.

jazakallah sis malaikah, inshallah ill read the article later, my brain is slowly shutting down.

0kay, just make sure you read it, it is brilliant.

 

[InToTheRain]

it saddens me deeply when i befriend or atleast hold someone to high respects, yet i find out something disturbing about them, than causes me to loose respet for that person. i am not saying im better than anyone else, im simiply reflecting on all our differences.

Reflect more on the similirities Insha'Allah and maybe you will gain respect for them.

If you read the Biographies of the past scholars and history you will learn that the knowledge they had was by far superior to ours. This makes sense as Hadith from Bukhari stated several times that the best Generation is his generation (The Sahabas), the Tabien and then the Tabi-Tabi'ien. So we follow the Madhab because we think it is the closest to the Sunnah of the Prophet(SAW) one will get. For example Ibn Kathir(RA), a student of ibn Taymiah(RA) used to follow the Shafi school of thought.

No one has to Blindly follow a Madhab, the Ulema have said one can change Madhab if one finds it easier to understand and practice or if they genuinely believe the Madhab has stronger Opinion. It was something that was required because Muslim with little knowledge were taking Fatwas from several scholars regarding the same issue and applying them to suit their desires.

Also Mutjahid can defer in his opinion, for example Imam Tahawi(RA) was born under a family which follows Shafi Madhab, then he changed to Hanafi Madhab, but he deffered in some opinion yet he claimed to follow Hanafi school of thought.

Why would scholars of such great Knowledge follow a Madhab? Do we have scholars of this calibre this day and age? What is it common during their times not to follow a Madhab? something to think about.

Also something to think about, if we are left to decide for ourselves how to interpret hadiths from Bukhari without the knowledge of a Faqih or Mutjahid do you not think that would leed to more devisions?

Let's all try our best to follow the sunnah and accept the words of a brother or sister who says he or she is trying their level best to follow the sunnah and if in their hearts they deviate then that is Allah Azza Wa Jal aware of what is in it.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

If you're in the US or Canada, I really really recommend that you take this class:

http://www.almaghrib.org/seminar_tce.php

It's taught by Shaykh Yaser Birjas, and well...just take the class, you'll understand why after.

The class teaches you to respect each Madhab and you learn why rulings are different in each. You'll learn how awesome the Imaams were and how much hard work they did, how they derived their principles, and how they were effected due to time period and location. And you'll come to understand why there are differences of opinion and you'll gain something - that's respect for each madhab and the amount work scholars have done. Here's some testimonials from people that have taken the class:

http://forums.almaghrib.org/showthread.php?t=17446

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

If you're going to choose a school to study, id say go for the Hanbali school. It encompasses both Aqeedah and Fiqh, so you'll get the entire package. Plus alot of known scholars were Hanbali (and these are minus the students of Imam Ahmad), Ibn Hamid, al Qadhi Abu Yala, Abu Ismail al Harrawi, Abdul Qadir al Jilani, Ibn Jawzi, Ibn Qudama, Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Qayyim, Ibn Rajab and others. Abu Isma’il al-Harawi infact would say:

Ana Hanbaliyun Mahayiytu fa in amut
Fa wasiyati li al-Nasi an yatahanbalu

I am a Hanbali as long as I live, and when I die
My legacy to the people is to become Hanbalis

EXCEPT FOR imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal who ordered his fatwa not be written down, and to follow only the Quran and Sunnah.

His fatwa and responses were collected by al Khallal who travelled the Khilafa during his time seeking out Imam Ahmad's students. He then compiled it into a book entitled al-Jami'. al Jami' was then summarized into Mukhtasar al-Khiraqi, by al Khiraqi (d 334) and it was the first Fiqh manual written in the history of the madhab. But in regards to Aqeedah, we have Imam Ahmad's own books like Kitaab us Sunnah and Radd Ala' al Zanadiqah wal Jahmiyyah plus letters which he wrote to personalities in his time explaining the Sunnah.

So it isn't thaat bad over on the Hanbali side

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

before i go any further, i just want to clarfiy someting (which i have come to accept since i last posted on this thead). im not against being bias towards a particular mathhab IF genuinley one believes that the opinion taken by the particular imam, on a particular issue is the most correct. i also understand why one will be bias towrds a praticulr mathhab: because this what they have been taught, and sheehsh! we not gonna question our teachers now, are we? why should we? What i mean is, im assuming that the teacher him/herself is knowledgeable/fleunt if you like, with regards to that paticular mathhab, and therefore feels that he/she cannot teach other than with that mathhab, becasue this the only evidence that they have at hand. so inother words, if this is genuneinly all the knowledge you can get your hands on (as well as the only evicences they have been exposed to-becaue if your're only exosed to a particluar thing, its not really going to occur to you, to explore any further), then i understand why you would give an opnion bias to that mathhab, if any of that even makes sense.

However having saying all that, I have question(which are based on the article sis malaikah postes -btw, it was good..lol...)

With regards to follwong stricly a mathhab, (taking into account that this is what you have been taught, and this is the strongest evidence at hand, (as well as the only evicences they have been exposed to), my question now is: if someone gives me an opinion of lets say the Imam malik (rahimahullah), taking innto considration, that there are differences with amoung the mathabs, and therefore, there is a possiblity that this could be a 'weak' opinion. Would it be then my responsibily to reaserch, (obviouly by asking one with knowledge), for the strongest opinion? And considring the fact that i may not be able to get in contact with someone with more knowledge than, is it then better for me to stick to the opinion of Imam Malik (rahimahullah), (because my knowledge is obviuosly alot less then his)although there could be a stronger opinion?

Another parameter is that the person who abandons the view of the madhhab in favour of the authentic hadith should at least be suitably qualified to do so.

before i comment, lets read the following incident frst

Ibn Wahb said: "I heard Maalik being asked about cleaning between the toes during ablution. He said, 'The people do not have to do that.' I did not approach him until the crowd had lessened, when I said to him, 'We know of a sunnah about that.' He said, 'What is that ?' I said, 'Laith ibn Sa'd, Ibn Lahee'ah and 'Amr ibn al-Haarith narrated to us from Yazeed ibn 'Amr al-Ma'aafiri from Abu 'Abdur-Rahman al-Hubuli from Mustawrid ibn Shaddaad al-Qurashi who said, 'I saw the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) rubbing between his toes with his little finger.' He said, 'This hadeeth is sound; I had not heard of it at all until now.' Afterwards, I heard him being asked about the same thing, on which he ordered cleaning between the toes."30
-------
[30]From the Introduction to Al-Jarh wat-Ta'deel of Ibn Abi Haatim, pp. 31-2.

taken from sheikh al-albaai's "the prophets prayer described' book.
you see, if ibn wahb had not pointed that the hadith to imam malik, and i, coming centeries after, had seen that, than i would have out aside the opinion of imam malik, because of the hadith. i know, i know im not qualified, but it dosent feel right to put aside the hadith, Which clearly states that it is acceptable and go opposite to it.

Now, I have a couple of questions for the followers of the mathhabs.(sorry, it may sound a little offence, i dont mean it though)
lets read the followiung fatwa:
my question is (sorry, it may sound a little offence, i dont mean it though)for those who are of the opnion that wiping part of the head if suffiecnet, after seeing the evidence, willy you still stick to your mathaby veiw, although reliabe evidence suggests otherwise.

also, when you give da3wah, or when/or if someone asks you a question about islam, and you know that there is more than one opinion, and you know that your imams opinion is not the most correct, what answer do you give the person? the strongest opinion, or otherwise.
~~~~~~~
btw, has anyone taken the course brother ubaydullah is refering to. perhaps you could post your notes.....

"I only follow the Qu'ran, not humans!" Huh? "You must be a *******!"

lol @ that comment. dont even get me started.

 

[Malaikah]

With regards to follwong stricly a mathhab, (taking into account that this is what you have been taught, and this is the strongest evidence at hand, (as well as the only evicences they have been exposed to), my question now is: if someone gives me an opinion of lets say the Imam malik (rahimahullah), taking innto considration, that there are differences with amoung the mathabs, and therefore, there is a possiblity that this could be a 'weak' opinion. Would it be then my responsibily to reaserch, (obviouly by asking one with knowledge), for the strongest opinion? And considring the fact that i may not be able to get in contact with someone with more knowledge than, is it then better for me to stick to the opinion of Imam Malik (rahimahullah), (because my knowledge is obviuosly alot less then his)although there could be a stronger opinion?

Well, depending on who you ask, different people will tell you different opinions are stronger!

taken from sheikh al-albaai's "the prophets prayer described' book.
you see, if ibn wahb had not pointed that the hadith to imam malik, and i, coming centeries after, had seen that, than i would have out aside the opinion of imam malik, because of the hadith. i know, i know im not qualified, but it dosent feel right to put aside the hadith, Which clearly states that it is acceptable and go opposite to it.

Yes, but I don't think followers of a modern madhab still follow the original opinions of the four shaykhs... don't they follow the opinions of contemporary scholars of that madhhab? :?

fatwa:
my question is (sorry, it may sound a little offence, i dont mean it though)for those who are of the opnion that wiping part of the head if suffiecnet, after seeing the evidence, willy you still stick to your mathaby veiw, although reliabe evidence suggests otherwise.

If a person follows a madhab and follows X opinion of that madhab, and then hears of a different opinion that contradicts his opinion X and has hadiths/verses as proof. The person should not immediately change his opinion to follow the new opinion, but he should ask a person (shaykh, student of knowledge, scholar) to explain opinion X to him and why he follows opinion X even though there is verse/hadith that contradicts it. If, after that, he is content with the explanation of opinion X then alhamdulilah but if he feels uncomfortable/uncertain about it than there is nothing wrong with him following other other opinion.

But the key point here is that he research the opinion of his madhab before changing it. This is what my shaykh taught us.

also, when you give da3wah, or when/or if someone asks you a question about islam, and you know that there is more than one opinion, and you know that your imams opinion is not the most correct, what answer do you give the person? the strongest opinion, or otherwise.

I think it really depends on what they ask. Safest option is to say there are different opinions, I follow opinion X, others follow opinion Y...

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Yes, but I don't think followers of a modern madhab still follow the original opinions of the four shaykhs... don't they follow the opinions of contemporary scholars of that madhhab? :?

no, no, no dear. you misuderstood :sunny: what i meant was if i saw the hadith, and without consulting a person of knowledge, than instinctivley i would have put the opinion of the imam aside, a went for the hadith, because i would have felt that that the proper thing to do.

If a person follows a madhab and follows X opinion of that madhab, and then hears of a different opinion that contradicts his opinion X and has hadiths/verses as proof. The person should not immediately change his opinion to follow the new opinion, but he should ask a person (shaykh, student of knowledge, scholar) to explain opinion X to him and why he follows opinion X even though there is verse/hadith that contradicts it. If, after that, he is content with the explanation of opinion X then alhamdulilah but if he feels uncomfortable/uncertain about it than there is nothing wrong with him following other other opinion.

but why not sis? In the case where the shiekh has explained why it is nessesary, using evidences, to wipe the full head. why would then one need to go to their teacher, etc to get that further explained, when the evidences is right there. i dont get! this is what is frustrating me.

But the key point here is that he research the opinion of his madhab before changing it. This is what my shaykh taught us.

im not saying change your mathhab, im saying whats wroong with accepting a differenent view, after acceptable evidences has been shown. this is what im having trouble digesting.

 

[ayesha309]

I use to follow a madhab and then poeple told me i shouldn't becuase that is how the Muslim Ummah gets divided. they said i should stick to the Qur'an and Sunnah. but then after that in a Jum'a Khutbah i heard a hadith that the Prophet SAW said the Day of Judgement will be near when
..... and there were 15 items listed.
one of them was when poeple will disrespect the Ulema and I was told that by not following a particular Imam we are disrespecting all of them. But i dont disrespect them. I think Masha'Allah they were all excellent people and they have excellent schools of thought. i dunt know what to do. im confused :?
am i doing something wrong??

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ the way i understand it is that... a madhab is to follow a huge list of qualified mujtaahids opinions and to follow other then that is to follow opinions of other scholars??

for example, hanafi madhab follows - abu hanifa/ibn abidin/abu yusuf etc etc... soooo many others..

la adree..

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

someone said:

Not following a madhab is sort of like saying I'll do this differential equation using an equation concocted by my friend. "I won't use Lagrange multiples, because I trust my friend." It doesn't work like that.

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Saalih Al-Uthaymeen was asked:

When encountering a difficult issue, do you advise the student of knowledge not to stick to a madhhab, or [do you advise] to turn to a particular madhhab?

The Shaykh, hafidhahullaah, responded:

If what is intended by sticking to a madhhab is that a person sticks to that madhhab, and turns away from everything else; whether the correct view lies in his madhhab or another madhhab - then this is not permissible, and is from the blameworthy and bigotted partisanship. But if a person ascribes to a particular madhhab in order to benefit from its principles and guidelines, but he refers it back to the Book and the Sunnah; [such that] if it becomes clear to him that the preferred view lies in another madhhab, he then adopts that view - then there is no problem with this. [Note: this is for a student of knowledge, not the common muslim].

Shaykh Saalih Al-Fawzaan was asked:

Is it permissible for one who sticks to a particular madhhab in matters of worship, to turn away from it and stick to another madhhab whenever he wants? Or is it binding upon a Muslim to stick to just one madhhab until he dies? And is there a difference in how the Prayer should be performed between the four madhhabs or not? And what has been related from the Prophet sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam concerning how the Prayer should be prayed?

The Shaykh, hafidhahullaah, responded:

The issue of sticking to a madhhab has in it some detail. If a person has the ability to know the ruling from its proof, and to deduce the ruling from its proof, then it is not permitted for him to cling to a madhhab. rather, it is upon him to take the ruling from the evidence - if he has the ability to do so. However, this is rare amongst the people, since this is a quality of the mujtahideen from the people of knowledge; those that have reaced the levels of ijtihaad. As for one who is not like that, then he cannot take the rulings directly from the evidences. And this is the predominant case amongst the people, especially in these latter times. So [in such a case] there is no harm in adopting one of the four madhhabs and making taqleed of one of them. However, he should not make blind taqleed such that he takes all that is in the madhhab; whether it is correct or incorrect. Rather, it is upon him to take from the madhhab that which - in his view - does not clearly oppose the evidence.

As for those views in the madhhab which clearly oppose the evidence, then it is not permissible for the Muslim to take it. Rather it is upon him to adopt what is established by the proof, even if it is in another madhhab So his leaving the madhhab for another madhhab in order to follow the evidence is something good; this is a matter which is good - rather it is obligatory;since following the evidence is an madhhab in order to follow the evidence is something good; this is a matter which is good - rather it is obligatory;since following the evidence is an obligation. As for adopting one madhhab sometimes and another at other times, then this moving is from the angle of following ones desires and seeking concessions, and this is not permissible. Meaning, that whatever accords with ones whims and desires, from the sayings of the people of knowledge, is taken - even if it opposes the proof; and whatever opposes ones whims and desires is left - even if it has a proof.

This is the following of whims and desires, and we seek refuge in Allaah [from that]. Thus, moving from one madhhab to another, due to following ones desires, or due to ease or seeking concession; then this is not permissible. As for moving from one madhhab to another due to following an evidence, or to flee from a saying that does not have a proof, or from an erroneous view - then this is a matter that is encouraged and sought from a Muslim. And Allaah knows best. As for the issue concerning the differences between the four madhhabs in the Prayer, then the four madhhabs - and all praise is for Allaah -are in Prayer, then the four madhhabs - and all praise is for Allaah - are in agreement about most of the rulings concerning the Prayer, in general. Their differences are in some of the details of the Prayer. From [such differences] are, for example, that [one of them] may consider something to be prescribed, whilst another may not consider it to be prescribed; one may consider something to be obligatory, whilst another may consider it to be recommended; and so on. So the differences are in the details of the Prayer. But as for the rulings of the Prayer in general, then there is no difference - and all praise is for Allaah

Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul-Wahhaab said:

If a person is learning fiqh from one of the four madhhabs, then he sees a hadeeth that opposes his madhhab; and so he follows it and leaves his madhhab - then this is recommended, rather it is obligatory upon him when the proof has been made clear to him. This would not be considered as opposing his Imaam that he follows, since they - Abu Haneefah, Maalik, ash-Shaafiee and Ahmad, radiallaahu anhum ajmaeen - were all agreed upon this fundamental principle. ... As for the case whereby a person does not have any evidence which opposes the view of the scholars of the madhhab, then we hope that it is permissible to act upon it (the madhhab), since their opinions are better than our own opinions; they took their proofs from the sayings of the Companions and those who came after them. However, it is not essential to declare with certainty (al-jazm) that this is the Shareeah of Allaah and His Messenger, until the proof that is not contradicted in this issue is made clear. This is the action of the Salaf of this Ummah and its scholars - both previous and recent - as well as that which they criticised: namely having bigotted partisanship for particular madhhabs (at-taassubul-madhaahib) and leaving off following the proof... However, if there becomes clear to him something which necessitates preferring one saying over another; either due to detailed proofs if he knows and understands them,or because he holds one of the two people to be more knowledgeable about this matter and having more piety about what he says, and so he leaves the saying of that one for the saying of the other one - then this is permissible, rather it is obligatory. And there is a text from Imaam Ahmad concerning this.

REFERENCES

1. As-Sahwatul-Islaamiyyah (pp.141-142).
2. Muntaqaa min Fataawaa (5/365-366).
3. Ad-Durur-Saniyyah (4/7).

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

The Shaykh, hafidhahullaah, responded:

The issue of sticking to a madhhab has in it some detail. If a person has the ability to know the ruling from its proof, and to deduce the ruling from its proof, then it is not permitted for him to cling to a madhhab. rather, it is upon him to take the ruling from the evidence - if he has the ability to do so. However, this is rare amongst the people, since this is a quality of the mujtahideen from the people of knowledge; those that have reaced the levels of ijtihaad. As for one who is not like that, then he cannot take the rulings directly from the evidences. And this is the predominant case amongst the people, especially in these latter times. So [in such a case] there is no harm in adopting one of the four madhhabs and making taqleed of one of them. However, he should not make blind taqleed such that he takes all that is in the madhhab; whether it is correct or incorrect. Rather, it is upon him to take from the madhhab that which - in his view - does not clearly oppose the evidence.

mashaAllah, jizakAllahu khairan

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

I use to follow a madhab and then poeple told me i shouldn't becuase that is how the Muslim Ummah gets divided. they said i should stick to the Qur'an and Sunnah. but then after that in a Jum'a Khutbah i heard a hadith that the Prophet SAW said the Day of Judgement will be near when
..... and there were 15 items listed.
one of them was when poeple will disrespect the Ulema and I was told that by not following a particular Imam we are disrespecting all of them. But i dont disrespect them. I think Masha'Allah they were all excellent people and they have excellent schools of thought. i dunt know what to do. im confused :?
am i doing something wrong??

i dont think that this is what divides the ummah, i think the ummah becomes divided when people strictly follow one mathhab, although a stronger opinion lies within another, and get so fanatical about it, and extreme, although it is quite simple.
jazakallahu khair sis Al Muwahhidah.