Nazi ------> Religion ??

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Oh yep and Hitler did have some British fighting for him in the waffen SS, i wasreading in Military History an articel on it last year. There were 22 of them. They fought against the russians.

Why not mention them? Well apart from being 1000 times less than the number of Muslims, they were english of various faiths and none. The Handschar were recruited by the grand mufti Al Husayni under the guise of jihad.
We are talking religion and Hitler. Some swededs and Portugese and spanish also fought, but for Hitlers religion of Nazism. The Handschar "fought for Allah" as willing allies of Hitler.

I'm not saying that they were "true muslims" as you guys would define them now, but you cant wipe out history. Why not just say, "Cripes! Thats awful! I regret that this happened, lets learn lessons from it!"
 
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doorster said:
no mention of Englanders or poles! why? no mention of country of origin of "muslim" troops or their reasoning

if you dont like it Tough! its an open forum and I'll post as I see fit until one of your mates bans me again.
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for chrissake dude, he cited the Muslim waffen SS division because he thought it'd be of interest for us to know, and that maybe not many of us were aware of it. I certainly wasn't. And it adds a whole new dynamic to the discussion and makes it more interesting. So cut barney some slack, this isn't the security council at the UN.
 
nocturnal said:
for chrissake dude, he cited the Muslim waffen SS division because he thought it'd be of interest for us to know, and that maybe not many of us were aware of it. I certainly wasn't. And it adds a whole new dynamic to the discussion and makes it more interesting. So cut barney some slack, this isn't the security council at the UN.
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oopse was that some sort of Freudian slip?

in any case read more of his posts first http://www.islamicboard.com/search/find-users-posts/11793/
 
there were Muslims in the Nazi army, there were Muslims in the Allies too, there were Muslims that saving the Jews, there were Muslims killed in the holocaust too, there were Muslims in Japanese army and there were Muslims fighting the Japanese with the British too....

Conclusion: there were Muslims everywhere....:D
 
Yup, despite some veiws on the matter, i'm not after going into a "Muslims sided with Hitler" yawnathon today. We can leave it at that for sake of a peacable thread.

If anyone wants to take up the Handschar in another thread, I'm happy to fill you in on all they did and stood for and why they differ from muslims in the allied forces.

Simple fact is that National Socialism, as practiced by Hitler was in all practicable areas a religion, and Hitler was a master of using religion in his brainwashing of the german people.
 
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north_malaysian said:
there were Muslims in the Nazi army, there were Muslims in the Allies too, there were Muslims that saving the Jews, there were Muslims killed in the holocaust too, there were Muslims in Japanese army and there were Muslims fighting the Japanese with the British too....

Conclusion: there were Muslims everywhere....:D
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:thumbs_up
;D
:w:
 
barney said:
so please dont plunge on every post just because Skye does.
.
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:mmokay:--carry on..

I don't find this thread interesting enough to partake in.. in fact the only comment here worth mentioning was of 'Aseeker'..seems he took a detour from the addlehead house to LI..
isn't barn whimsically eccentric enough are we now allowing sociopaths membership too?
 
barney said:
Yup, despite some veiws on the matter, i'm not after going into a "Muslims sided with Hitler" yawnathon today. We can leave it at that for sake of a peacable thread.

If anyone wants to take up the Handschar in another thread, I'm happy to fill you in on all they did and stood for and why they differ from muslims in the allied forces.

Simple fact is that National Socialism, as practiced by Hitler was in all practicable areas a religion, and Hitler was a master of using religion in his brainwashing of the german people.
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In Hellboy, the Nazis are occultists....is it true?
 
Skye Ephémérine said:
:mmokay:--carry on..

I don't find this thread interesting enough to partake in.. in fact the only comment here worth mentioning was of 'Aseeker'..seems he took a detour from the addlehead house to LI..
isn't barn whimsically eccentric enough are we now allowing sociopaths membership too?
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Are you implying that I'm NOT a sociopath? Because you are sorely mistaken young lady!
 
north_malaysian said:
ok...Nazism is a religion then....case closed! :D
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LOL! No No!:D
National socialism was the religion, it used parts of other religions to give it substance and merit.
As Mormonism was built upon Christianity, but was really Jo Smiths mad dream turned reality, N.S was Hitlers Mein Kampf solidified by Wotan/Catholicism and the greater german god..
 
barney said:
LOL! No No!:D
National socialism was the religion, it used parts of other religions to give it substance and merit.
As Mormonism was built upon Christianity, but was really Jo Smiths mad dream turned reality, N.S was Hitlers Mein Kampf solidified by Wotan/Catholicism and the greater german god..
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ok..ok... Nazism is a denominational/sect of National Socialism religion....case closed! ;D
 
interesting that, about the SS.

btw what does woden have to do with this? rather Hitler used existing ideologies/symbols for his cause. that doesn't make it a religion.
 
It's an odd question, this. Intuitively, of course, it is very hard to consider Nazism or Soviet (for example) communism as 'religions', but when weighed up against any reasonable attempt to define a religion it it actually very hard to exclude them, for much the reasons Barney suggests. The same applies to 'Manchester United', which seems even more absurd, but in both cases adherents/fans show the same 'ritualistic behaviour' and even 'worship' included in most attempts to satisfactorily define religion. The ideology (or football club) can take exactly the same place in people's lives as religion does. It is an essential point here that, considering communism in that way, it is NOT being considered a 'religion' BECAUSE it is 'atheistic'.

You could resort to an inadequate 'dictionary' definition of religion that excludes anything not involving belief in God, or gods, or even the 'supernatural' in general, but that would (arguably perhaps, in the latter case) exclude several of what certainly are seen religions by most people such as Buddhism and Daoism. Such definitions invariably are inadequate as they generally only represent the concept of religion accepted by the person writing the definition, which is primarily cultural rather than scientific or philosophical in nature. So an English or Arabic dictionary definition would generally include 'God or gods', but its highly unlikely even a pre-Communist Chinese one would.
 
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^The 'Manchester United' definition would also include Star Wars fans, Trekkies and geekdom in general. It's too wide.

Aaron85 said:
Nazi = Religion?
I think that this was made up by enemies of religion as an excuse. Nazism wouldnt appear without Enlightment, XVIII century philospohies, without Nietzsche and Schopenhauer, without rejecting religion and creating man made ideologies like communism and natiionalism.Nazis have killed hundreds of priests, they have created own pagan vision of world, so now equating nazism with religion is something rude in my opinion.
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I wouldn't call them religious, but the Nazis did indeed pervert certain religious symbols for their own ends. Such as the swastika (which is a flipped version of a Hindu symbol which has nothing to do with fascism), and I recall reading/watching a documentary about the eagle symbols being perverted from... some sort of church? A little shaky there. I'll see if I can dig it up.

If anything, Nazis were obsessed with Norse mythology. I don't know if all that counts as 'religion' any more. Anyone believe in Valkyries?

I don't think your average brownshirt was particularly religious - at least not any more than they felt they needed to be in order to blame Jewish people for everything.
 
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I know the Catholics sometime get a bit of a kicking over the Naziis but the inclusion of a Muslim division is a surprise. I will need some convincing over that. I am skeptical about it.
 
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