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PA, thanks for the gentle reminder. I did wonder if it would be appropriate in here, in fact I had self moderated the comment somewhat.
Pasquinades. I had to look that up. Great word. Thx.:sunny:
I think in the beginning I may have attested to having respect for Muslims, which I do, however don't seem to recall mentioning anything like that about religions.
BTW that got me thinking: I've always wondered if the aversion to critical examination was due to insecurity, or is it something else? If something else, then what? I'm not being factious, I'd really like to know.
Best
Pasquinades. I had to look that up. Great word. Thx.:sunny:
I think in the beginning I may have attested to having respect for Muslims, which I do, however don't seem to recall mentioning anything like that about religions.
BTW that got me thinking: I've always wondered if the aversion to critical examination was due to insecurity, or is it something else? If something else, then what? I'm not being factious, I'd really like to know.
Best
north_malaysian
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Welcome!!!!
I wonder in which part of SE Asia you're living in?
kay:
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we can get into that in a few days.. I can't get into a deep philosophical discussion currently... I don't think it is anything along the lines of aversion to critical thinking.. people can travel parallel lines and not intersect.. generally I don't think it is because one has examined the situation more critically than the others.. they might have examined as critically but come up with completely different conclusions.. with that comes responsibility...
I am not sure what how to assimilate it to you in lines where we can see eye to eye?.. I suppose it is like when you first become a father and decide the role you wish to accomplish for the needs of your family, do you want to be a full time dad work at home be hands on? do you want to be the best financial provider and make your family want for nothing even if you have to travel far and wide, give them the best of the best, do you want a compromise between the two? I don't think anyone can make that decision for someone else, more importantly I don't think it at all appropriate to criticize someone for the decision they have made... I can take any little portion in the human body, break it down to the smallest component and tell you of the impossibilities and the improbabilities of such components assembling out of nothing or out of randomness and you might think diametrically how it is all under physiological conditions... we might get into a discussion on what grounds the physiological conditions themselves mandated such laws unfold in that course amino acids diffrentiating into organ system that aren't only functional for their purpose but even the aesthetics not just of the human body but of the universe.. or how such grounds constituted sentiency at a later point.. whatever is the case... I don't particularly find it skillful to assume you have reached some sort of nirvana while others are left to rot in the mire..
Now why such laws or why this religion is a whole other segment to our conclusions... I can't discuss with you tetralogy of fallot, when you don't even know what makes a cyanotic heart disease.. we have to find some common grounds and take it from there.. otherwise we'll be wasting each other's time and there is no shortage of members who do just that on the forum.. I do still hope you have a genuine interest in Islam and Muslims, not on a superficial level but one that will hopefully change your life toward a deeper more sensible understanding... pls forgive typos or grammatical errors I am sort of in a hurry
peace!
PA, obviously you were in a hurry, the expression I used was critical examination, not critical thinking. There’s a distinction.
I totally get why one would be reticent to jump into discussions with new members, it’s probably the right call.
Other than the challenge of your grammar and punctuation, I reckon I can stay with you on those topics, except cardiology. Oh, and ID would be a waste of time, it’s been debunked in court, crashed and burned, the proponents humiliated. The judge’s statement is worth a read.
Best
I totally get why one would be reticent to jump into discussions with new members, it’s probably the right call.
Other than the challenge of your grammar and punctuation, I reckon I can stay with you on those topics, except cardiology. Oh, and ID would be a waste of time, it’s been debunked in court, crashed and burned, the proponents humiliated. The judge’s statement is worth a read.
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it is a waste of time to someone without a keen examaning eye no offense intended... also, there comes a time in your life when you value your own judgement over what is thrown out or accepted in court!
I am not going to dismiss or accept a theory on the basis that a committee of self elected illuminati have tread on such grounds and decided what is correct and acceptable!
further, I had no intention of bringing ID into the discussion by mention of tetralogy of fallot or cyanotic heart disease.. rather it was meant as what is the deterrence of discussing matters of jurisprudence with an atheist, when there is no established common ground.. again sort of like arguing why laproscopic suction with parenteral nutrition would be first line therapy over bowel rest and antibiotics or an exploartory laprotomy, or an endoscopic removal of a hematoma in a child who presented with blunt trauma with epigastric pain and a hematoma on CT scan, when your day job is a bartender..
Which is something I notice with many atheists who read a hadith or a sura and come and argue logic or lack thereof when others dedicate a life time studying it...
To answer your original question, I don't think you value certain aspects of religion the way a theist does, or give it the same amount of dedication, hence when you come and use one deragatory term and then question why it is that someone found it offensive.. is it because of aversion? honestly what do you think?
peace!
I am not going to dismiss or accept a theory on the basis that a committee of self elected illuminati have tread on such grounds and decided what is correct and acceptable!
further, I had no intention of bringing ID into the discussion by mention of tetralogy of fallot or cyanotic heart disease.. rather it was meant as what is the deterrence of discussing matters of jurisprudence with an atheist, when there is no established common ground.. again sort of like arguing why laproscopic suction with parenteral nutrition would be first line therapy over bowel rest and antibiotics or an exploartory laprotomy, or an endoscopic removal of a hematoma in a child who presented with blunt trauma with epigastric pain and a hematoma on CT scan, when your day job is a bartender..
Which is something I notice with many atheists who read a hadith or a sura and come and argue logic or lack thereof when others dedicate a life time studying it...
To answer your original question, I don't think you value certain aspects of religion the way a theist does, or give it the same amount of dedication, hence when you come and use one deragatory term and then question why it is that someone found it offensive.. is it because of aversion? honestly what do you think?
peace!
It was this bit that made me think you were referring to ID:
Illegitimate court?
Ah yes, but of course the ID inventors recognized the legitimacy of the court prior to proceedings by their enthusiastic participation. It is without doubt that if the judgment went in their favour creationists the world over would be crowing about it from the rooftops.
I don't see the concept of critical examination as derogatory nor offensive - unless one's deeply insecure
Illegitimate court?
Ah yes, but of course the ID inventors recognized the legitimacy of the court prior to proceedings by their enthusiastic participation. It is without doubt that if the judgment went in their favour creationists the world over would be crowing about it from the rooftops.
I don't see the concept of critical examination as derogatory nor offensive - unless one's deeply insecure
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Hi Purest, I’m guessing from your first para that you agree that one of the key inventors of ID is not credible. I’m with you. We could belabour this or move on.
What I expect is for you to accept the authority of the court and reject your entire belief system forthwith or I’ll….
I’ll….
Hold my breath until…
until…..you do!
Seriously though, as I said in my very first post, I came here to learn about & understand Muslims & Islam. The reason is that I often travel and work in Muslim places. I wouldn’t argue vascular surgery with you any more than I would argue about which of your feet should depart the bathroom first. You and I would both agree that we don’t need to know the intricacies of Norse god theology to know it is fictitious. But, it is beside the point.
It wasn’t an idle quip, you chastised me for a comment and I asked you what you thought the reason might be for the fragile sensitivities of Muslims. Why does one need go around on tiptoes, not so much here (I understand now that the comment might have been inappropriate) but out in the real world? It comes across as insecurity, but maybe it is buried in the doctrine, or maybe it is too complicated for a non-Muslim to understand.
This was my original question:
I don’t think I was being asinine, nor disingenuous. You and the others provided such a warm welcome when I came on board and I thought I could ask and get a thoughtful response. I hope I haven’t wasted your time, but I you think I have please let me know and we can discontinue.
Very best
What I expect is for you to accept the authority of the court and reject your entire belief system forthwith or I’ll….
I’ll….
Hold my breath until…
until…..you do!
Seriously though, as I said in my very first post, I came here to learn about & understand Muslims & Islam. The reason is that I often travel and work in Muslim places. I wouldn’t argue vascular surgery with you any more than I would argue about which of your feet should depart the bathroom first. You and I would both agree that we don’t need to know the intricacies of Norse god theology to know it is fictitious. But, it is beside the point.
It wasn’t an idle quip, you chastised me for a comment and I asked you what you thought the reason might be for the fragile sensitivities of Muslims. Why does one need go around on tiptoes, not so much here (I understand now that the comment might have been inappropriate) but out in the real world? It comes across as insecurity, but maybe it is buried in the doctrine, or maybe it is too complicated for a non-Muslim to understand.
This was my original question:
I don’t think I was being asinine, nor disingenuous. You and the others provided such a warm welcome when I came on board and I thought I could ask and get a thoughtful response. I hope I haven’t wasted your time, but I you think I have please let me know and we can discontinue.
Very best
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hey welcome
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I implied no such thing.. merely a strange focus.. I don't think such an argument belongs in court.. firstly separation of church and state will naturally dictate the outcome regardless of the judge's personal opinion...
No different than ethics in medicine.. you might feel strongly that you should give someone a transfusion to live, but he/she may deny it and that is their right, not yours.... Ball is already not in the court of the ID'ers and there is no point in trying to bring it there in an already secular state.. it will open a can of worm!
What I expect is for you to accept the authority of the court and reject your entire belief system forthwith or I’ll….
I’ll….
Hold my breath until…
until…..you do!
I only accept the authority of God and his is the moral compass by which I choose to live my life!
sure I do.. how else would I judge which is better? How can you decide if Lemon Meringue Pie or a Basic Tiramisu suits your taste buds, if you don't try them both? If you are not into desert, that is an entirely different ball game-- fact is, it is instinctive to worship... you've merely substituted one for another.. what ever your ideals are in life, that is your God~!
I'll agree with the very last sentence!
No you weren't-- I have just decided, this is base line for most Atheists?... I don't know what you regard of importance in your life.. I don't know if you'd take too kindly to insults to your mother? perhaps that is common courtesies one expects from a fellow human being... but then... some go on killing their parents so, there isn't much of a consensus on 'values' where 'humanity' is concerned... however, where I see fit, I'll drop my chastisement... Either way, my comments weren't directed toward YOU the atheist.. but any atheist.. I find them just as dogmatic as any religious person.. only on the opposite side of the spectrum... Enver hoxha(ish) at times..
peace!
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