Newspapers decide to reprint Mohammed (PBUH) cartoons

[Uthman]

Is it illegal in Denmark to incite racial hatred or religious hatred?

If so, how does that sit in relation to freedom of speech?

If not, why not?

(Genuine questions)

 

[ahsan28]

No more cartoons !

Apologies from a non-muslim


Yes, most non-Muslim Danes can’t be bothered to be offended by depictions of the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH), in the same time we should not seek to cause offense when we know the outcome is going to be worse than worst.

Muslims whether living in Muslim Countries or simply among us in the Western World are human beings like you and me and have done nothing to deserve this unnecessary humiliation as do the ‘Mohammed cartoons’ cause.

Therefore this statement, offering my apologies to Muslims around the world :

“Sorry guys !” Though most of us support and defend freedom of speech, a great number among us easily appreciate the distinction between the opportunity/desire to express oneself, and the need to do so.


http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhgfwx2c_26gzqxv6f8

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

whoah thats like a breath of fresh air.

 

[FatimaAsSideqah]

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

What a relief!!

Allah Hafiz
Sister Fatima

 

[truemuslim]

.

 

[krypton6]

The violence is what's giving further publicity to the paper and the cartoonist, but at the same time the violence is also taking away the personal lives of the people who have made these cartoons and continue making, it is the violence that fears everybody and because of the fear noone dares walking around with the cartoon on his chest.

Denmark lost alot of money bcause of the boycotts and riots were brought up because of people losing their jobs because of the boycotts. The boycotts did in fact do alot and they worked very effectively.

Muslims in Denmark today are treated just as bad as how they were treated before the cartoons!

 

[Woodrow]

No more cartoons !

Apologies from a non-muslim


Yes, most non-Muslim Danes can’t be bothered to be offended by depictions of the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH), in the same time we should not seek to cause offense when we know the outcome is going to be worse than worst.

Muslims whether living in Muslim Countries or simply among us in the Western World are human beings like you and me and have done nothing to deserve this unnecessary humiliation as do the ‘Mohammed cartoons’ cause.

Therefore this statement, offering my apologies to Muslims around the world :

“Sorry guys !” Though most of us support and defend freedom of speech, a great number among us easily appreciate the distinction between the opportunity/desire to express oneself, and the need to do so.


http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhgfwx2c_26gzqxv6f8

An excellent example of what the power of words can be. This simple video, by a non-Muslim has done more benefit for Islam, than what would be done with 1,000,000 violent or angry acts of protest by us.

We need to listen and learn to use communication as the means to solve many of our problems. Physical actions, are needed against physical aggression. However, in terms of ideology and beliefs, physical protection is useless and only worsens things.

 

[krypton6]

Oh, they will indeed. They will learn that there is a vast cultural divide and that Muslims cannot seem to get along with Western cultural values like freedom of speech.

Muslims came to the west (at least to Denmark) believing that they would be accepted, treated nicely and that their religion would not be insulted in such a bad way from the government itself.

We came to Denmark knowing that they had freedom of speech but at the same time knowing all about the blasphemy part too, but aperantly insulting muslims is not considered blasphemy, but instead only insulting christians and jews is considered blasphemy.

A few years ago a local super market in Denmark made some Jesus sandals, christian priests protested and the sandals were banned. Where did "freedom of speech" go! O yeah I nearly forgot, christians were insulted so it is considered blasphemy!

 

[Uthman]

Something from wikipedia about incitement to ethnic or racial hatred in the UK:

Holocaust denial is not covered under this legislation, and neither is incitement to hatred against religions other than Judaism and Sikhism . This has been criticised by Muslim groups who argue that it gives preferential treatment to other religions than their own which is open to attack. As of 2005, the British government are attempting to bring in a similar law for incitement to religious hatred, but this has met with tough opposition by civil liberties groups, comedians, and others, who argue that it would stifle religious debate. It is also argued that incitement against Muslims is already covered by existing laws concerning incitement to violence.
​

Source

 

[Muezzin]

All religions should be protected from other people inciting hatred against them.

People will say, 'Ah, but what about jokey religions like Jedi, which people will insist is their religion and then complain when it's insulted or ridiculed? Even their jokey, tongue-in-cheek religion is covered by this law! It'll clog up the legal system! Nobody can say anything! What then?!'

To which I respond: 'Please. How does this work in practice? First, you might take the time to visit or call the cops. If they don't laugh you out of the station or give you grief for wasting police time, then you might choose to go to your solicitor. You might see your solicitor first. It doesn't matter. Either way, this takes time. You gather evidence of your case over a period of what will probably be months until you get a court date. Several months of your life. Over a jokey, tongue-in-cheek protest. Yeah. Sure.'

 

[Uthman]

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Muezzin again.

 

[Amadeus85]

i think it is really very simple.
provoke the muslims - a few will do something that will make for good tv.
boost newspaper circulation.
increase support for right wing parties across europe.
and it doesn't cost a penny.
when tests of free speech reach this level, you can't help but wonder if free speech is really necessary for people with nothing to say.

I dont think that it's so easy.If you notice in which ideological circles are the majority of european newspapers you wouldnt think that they want to increase support for far right parties. I think that you underestimate the strength of radical secular ideology of those people who decided to print those pictures. I dont think that there is a hidden agenda in their actions. They really believe what they do and that their job is good.

 

[Cognescenti]

whoah thats like a breath of fresh air.

It is no mere "breath of fresh air". It is the prevailing wind. The great majority of the people in the West aren't idiots. They wouldn't wear a shirt disrepectful of Islam to a dinner party with Muslims for the same reason they wouldn't wear a shirt with a black man hanging from a noose.

The fact that you think it is a "breath of fresh air" I take as a bad sign. Do you really know any non-Muslims socially? Do they purposely offend you?

BTW..I think the reprinting of the cartoon as a means of political statement is perfectly valid.

 

[Cognescenti]

All religions should be protected from other people inciting hatred against them.

People will say, 'Ah, but what about jokey religions like Jedi, which people will insist is their religion and then complain when it's insulted or ridiculed? Even their jokey, tongue-in-cheek religion is covered by this law! It'll clog up the legal system! Nobody can say anything! What then?!'

To which I respond: 'Please. How does this work in practice? First, you might take the time to visit or call the cops. If they don't laugh you out of the station or give you grief for wasting police time, then you might choose to go to your solicitor. You might see your solicitor first. It doesn't matter. Either way, this takes time. You gather evidence of your case over a period of what will probably be months until you get a court date. Several months of your life. Over a jokey, tongue-in-cheek protest. Yeah. Sure.'

That is all well and good if the speaker is advocating violence, but where is the incitement to religious hatred here? Simply the fact that Muslims are offended does not mean the political cartoonist's purpose was to convince other Dane's to hate Muslims, or even that he hates Muslims himself.

 

[Uthman]

BTW..I think the reprinting of the cartoon as a means of political statement is perfectly valid.

What have I ever done to deserve seeing/hearing about the unjust humiliation of a figure that I hold very close to my heart? Somebody who I hold in such deep reverence?

All my life I have lived in the west. I have tried to live by Islamic values as well as being loyal to my country. Sure, there has inevitably been conflict at times but I have tried to get over it in the best way possible. I have many Non-Muslim friends so it's not like I haven't integrated with my community. My friends respect me and my faith and vice-versa. I don't believe in unjust violence, and I know that Islam does not sanction it, neither did Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). What's more, I believe the majority of Muslims living in the west are like me.

So why do us innocent, law-abiding Muslims (who are the majority) deserve to have our hearts broken like this? Because of what? Because of freedom of speech?

It's inhuman. What's more, from what I have read (not only on this forum), it seems that the majority of Non-Muslims are in support of the cartoons.

How far can freedom of speech go? As far as to erode at the deepest values and convictions of a whole religious community?

I don't think many people understand how close some people are to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and how deeply they revere him. How much it hurts to hear what is being done to him.

Anyone who has researched his life knows that he was one of the most inspirational people that ever lived. I would like to share some good things that have been said about him by Non-Muslim scholars and the like:

The famous French poet Alphonse de La Martaine said in his “Historie de La Turquie, Paris, 1954: “If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad?...Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs… The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and one of the spiritual empires that is Muhammad.

As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well as, is there any man greater than he?” A Christian Anglican author, Barnaby Rogerson (in his “the prophet Muhammad: A Biography”) enthusiastically said about the prophet Muhammad: “Even when viewed in an entirely secular respective, he remains a super hero… only by marrying the best qualities of certain characters from European civilization- a combination, say, of Alexander the Great, and Aristotle, or the Emperor Constantine, St. Paul and St. Francis- can you begin to understand the measure of the man.”

I think I digressed again. :hmm:

 

[Keltoi]

There is a double edged sword involved here. The print media in Denmark wants to make the point that they will not be intimidated by violence, but in the process they are also repeating an action that they know is offensive to many law abiding Muslims who have no intention of violence.

The smartest thing for them to have done was to write an op-ed making the point that they will not be intimidated by violence, but will also not reprint the cartoon as a sign of respect for normal everyday Muslims.

 

[rookie_forever]

this whole argument reminds me of a film i watched the other day called the great debators, kinda makes me think of the last speech about the lynching mobs.

sometimes i do do feel that people are trying to say to me yes us and our laws have made you equal yet on the same turn they go and make me work ten times as hard to acheive a tenth of the status that another person gets.

Reminds me of the whole well you can't say anything against the Holocaust yet they go and call Eid Christmas, I'm like no I don't think the son of God was born on Eid, and then you realise they aren't listening anymore kinda sad really.

but hey all praise is to Allah (swt) and inshallah I try and remember that this world is only temporary the reward I need is from Allah alone I only hope that I can strive through the trials of this world.

 

[Cognescenti]

What have I ever done to deserve seeing/hearing about the unjust humiliation of a figure that I hold very close to my heart? Somebody who I hold in such deep reverence?

I doubt you did anything to "deserve" it. I think it is OK to inform non-Muslims how offensive it is to you in order to avoid accidental offence in the future but this notion that they must conform to your views is not going to work.

It's inhuman. What's more, from what I have read (not only on this forum), it seems that the majority of Non-Muslims are in support of the cartoons.

That's odd as it did not seem that way to me. The prevailing opinion seems to be that the right to publish the cartoon is valid, even if the cartoon itself is stupid. How do you think Americans feel when they see a bunch of idiots burning and stomping on an American flag shouting "death to America!"?

You just have to take a cleansing breath and move on.

 

[islamirama]

The violence is what's giving further publicity to the paper and the cartoonist, but at the same time the violence is also taking away the personal lives of the people who have made these cartoons and continue making, it is the violence that fears everybody and because of the fear noone dares walking around with the cartoon on his chest.

Denmark lost alot of money bcause of the boycotts and riots were brought up because of people losing their jobs because of the boycotts. The boycotts did in fact do alot and they worked very effectively.

Muslims in Denmark today are treated just as bad as how they were treated before the cartoons!

May the Muslims do another boycott and teach this pigs another lesson. Hit them where it hurts. may Allah destroy such arrogant animals who diss his beloved Prophet!

amen!

 

[ahsan28]

I think it is OK to inform non-Muslims how offensive it is to you in order to avoid accidental offence in the future but this notion that they must conform to your views is not going to work.

That's odd as it did not seem that way to me. The prevailing opinion seems to be that the right to publish the cartoon is valid, even if the cartoon itself is stupid. How do you think Americans feel when they see a bunch of idiots burning and stomping on an American flag shouting "death to America!"?

Not being in agreement and wilful humiliation are poles apart. Again there is a marked difference between criticising a particular country mainly due to its biased policies against Muslims, aimed at pushing them against the walls and deliberate attempts to mock a particular religion.