Non Muslims, how do you explain the existence of the Quran/Sincerity of the Prophet?

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That's interesting. I maybe wrong but I thought there are verses in Quran that say stuff like 'if you disbelieve in Allah you are committing a great sin and its a sin bigger than killing' etc.

Have a read at the entire Quran and then come and argue what you know.. what say you?
There's also a lot of stuff criticizing disbelievers and describing how they will go to Hell etc. I really don't know how such mortal threats can foster a liberal attitude?
Who said the Muslim attitude is a liberal one? and how is criticism of kuffr and seeking knowledge synonymous?

all the best
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1352458 said:


Have a read at the entire Quran and then come and argue what you know.. what say you?

Who said the Muslim attitude is a liberal one? and how is criticism of kuffr and seeking knowledge synonymous?

all the best

Interesting answers again! Are you suggesting there's nothing in the Quran that conveys the idea of 'if you disbelieve in Allah you are committing a great sin and its a sin bigger than killing' ? Please answer with a yes or no. Coz you must have read the quran right? So you shd know.

Nothing wrong with criticism. It is just the choice of 'Accept Allah or Burn in Eternal Hell' that puts an end to all 'questioning'.
 

Interesting answers again! Are you suggesting there's nothing in the Quran that conveys the idea of 'if you disbelieve in Allah you are committing a great sin and its a sin bigger than killing' ? Please answer with a yes or no. Coz you must have read the quran right? So you shd know.

Never have I suggested that kuffr isn't the greatest sin, in fact, so I have mentioned in my very last post on (eternity in hell's fire) post.. it isn't a great mystery!

Nothing wrong with criticism. It is just the choice of 'Accept Allah or Burn in Eternal Hell' that puts an end to all 'questioning'.
Not really.. you have a free will to do as you please!- if your knowledge quest leads you some other path, then be ready to defend it when the day comes!

all the best
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1352468 said:

Never have I suggested that kuffr isn't the greatest sin, in fact, so I have mentioned in my very last post on (eternity in hell's fire) post.. it isn't a great mystery!


Not really.. you have a free will to do as you please!- if your knowledge quest leads you some other path, then be ready to defend it when the day comes!

all the best

This gets even better! Don't you see how you are contradicting yourself? You say 'Disbelief in Allah is the greatest sin'. If it has already been decreed in Allah's court that I'm a sinner since I didn't put my faith in him, what chance do I have to defend myself?
 
This gets even better! Don't you see how you are contradicting yourself? You say 'Disbelief in Allah is the greatest sin'. If it has already been decreed in Allah's court that I'm a sinner since I didn't put my faith in him, what chance do I have to defend myself?
No, I don't see how I am contradicting myself-- I don't see how believing in one thing or another takes away from your free will, and if your beliefs lead you some other path, then the Islamic stance on the matter should really be negligible from your point of view.. I shouldn't have to be made to feel guilty or justify consequences of something you don't believe in, for a life style choice that you chose for yourself! if you sincerely believe that bathing in cow dung and mistreating others in accordance to their birth rights, and that the universe is one (with what that actually entails of contradiction) is the right and just path that will lead you to eternal happiness, then be able to defend it, if you are not sure that it is the right path, then perhaps you should ask God for guidance and reflect on your creation and that of the world around you and reconsider your convictions...

all the best
 
addendum to the above (on free will) using the noble Quran:

وَقُلِ الْحَقُّ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ ۖ فَمَنْ شَاءَ فَلْيُؤْمِنْ وَمَنْ شَاءَ فَلْيَكْفُرْ ۚ
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 18:29] Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve.
[/SIZE]
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1352471 said:

No, I don't see how I am contradicting myself-- I don't see how believing in one thing or another takes away from your free will, and if your beliefs lead you some other path, then the Islamic stance on the matter should really be negligible from your point of view.. I shouldn't have to be made to feel guilty or justify consequences of something you don't believe in, for a life style choice that you chose for yourself!
all the best

Yes, Islam's stance is negligible to me. However, it clearly is not to you and there lies the problem. If you leave me alone, I leave you alone. The entire point behind Dawah and aggressive conversion is to get people to believe in Allah and not allow them to 'neglect Islam' and keep a safe distance.
 
Yes, Islam's stance is negligible to me. However, it clearly is not to you and there lies the problem. If you leave me alone, I leave you alone. The entire point behind Dawah and aggressive conversion is to get people to believe in Allah and not allow them to 'neglect Islam' and keep a safe distance.

What aggressive conversions do you speak of in a time when simply wearing a veil grants you the VIP treatment from every dog that crosses your path? and the entire Muslim region is either engaged in wars or under threats of it.. Pls. fellow give me a break, also, I'll assume you are here of your own free will, if you don't wish the da3wa squad to be sent after you, then simply leave the forum and disable your account, or are you too good to be true?

Some very funny folks we have here on board!
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1352473 said:
addendum to the above (on free will) using the noble Quran:

وَقُلِ الْحَقُّ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ ۖ فَمَنْ شَاءَ فَلْيُؤْمِنْ وَمَنْ شَاءَ فَلْيَكْفُرْ ۚ
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 18:29] Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve.
[/SIZE]

Please allow me to finish that for you:

"Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place!"
 
Please allow me to finish that for you:

"Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place!"

Indeed! and sadaqa Allah al3atheem!

all the best and good luck!
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1352475 said:


What aggressive conversions do you speak of in a time when simply wearing a veil grants you the VIP treatment from every dog that crosses your path? and the entire Muslim region is either engaged in wars or under threats of it.. Pls. fellow give me a break, also, I'll assume you are here of your own free will, if you don't wish the da3wa squad to be sent after you, then simply leave the forum and disable your account, or are you too good to be true?

Some very funny folks we have here on board!

I live in India and I know what I'm seeing. There are huge hoardings everywhere about the 'TRUE RELIGION'. There are stalls in every major mall giving away free copies of the Quran and encouraging people to convert. There are stupid debates of religion vs religion where there are huge congregations of muslims and they clap at pure crap from the muslim side and jeer at everything from the opposite side. Muslims are all over youtube commenting on Hindu videos about the 'TRUE RELIGION'. This is definitely a consequence of the Quran declaring conversion as the sacred duty of every Muslim. I don't hate muslims. Faith is subjective and I have no problem with that. But stop thrusting the Quran into my face at ever bend of the road. Seriously, just get off my face and I'll get off yours.
 
I live in India and I know what I'm seeing. There are huge hoardings everywhere about the 'TRUE RELIGION'. There are stalls in every major mall giving away free copies of the Quran and encouraging people to convert. There are stupid debates of religion vs religion where there are huge congregations of muslims and they clap at pure crap from the muslim side and jeer at everything from the opposite side. Muslims are all over youtube commenting on Hindu videos about the 'TRUE RELIGION'. This is definitely a consequence of the Quran declaring conversion as the sacred duty of every Muslim. I don't hate muslims. Faith is subjective and I have no problem with that. But stop thrusting the Quran into my face at ever bend of the road. Seriously, just get off my face and I'll get off yours.


Why don't you organize and do something about it? oh wait, you have.. let's see:
Radical Hindu Party Promises Anti-Conversion Law In Himachal Pradesh, India

Radical Hindu Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) has promised to introduce anti-conversion legislation in Himachal Pradesh state if it wins the upcoming state assembly elections.
by Jennifer GoldPosted: Friday, September 29, 2006, 8:43 (BST)

Radical Hindu Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) has promised to introduce anti-conversion legislation in Himachal Pradesh state if it wins the upcoming state assembly elections, according to U.S.-based human rights group, International Christian Concern (ICC). The BJP has already introduced similar laws in three other states.
The announcement was made by the leader of the opposition in Himachal Pradesh and former chief minister, Prem Kumar Dhumal, in a press conference in Nahan district on 21 September, according to ICC.
"After coming to power in Himachal Pradesh, the BJP would bring legislations against religious conversion and slaughtering of cows (considered holy by Hindus) as the present government had completely failed to protect the rights of the Hindus," national daily The Indian Express quoted Dhumal as saying.
Dhumal claimed that Chief Minister Virbhadra Singh, of the Congress party, had assured the legislature that the rights of the Hindus would be protected and that no "forced" conversions would be allowed, "but this had been continuing in the state and the government had failed to do anything about it".
Dhumal was not available for comments.
Talking to ICC, Dr. Sajan K. George, president of the Global Council of Indian Christians, said the promise of an anti-conversion law by the BJP leader will "trigger hate against Christians".
"We fear that such statements will vitiate the atmosphere and the radicals will take law into their own hands. The storm troopers of the saffron brigade (Hindu fundamentalist organisations) will unleash terror on minorities," he added.
The BJP had earlier announced that it would enact a law banning conversions in Himachal Pradesh in 2003 before the then forthcoming elections, but it did not come to power. The next elections are due in 2008.
Himachal Pradesh is one of the states with the smallest Christian population, and many Hindu fundamentalist groups are active in the state. Of the total population of over six million, less than 8,000 are Christian.
Supporters of Hindu groups Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and Bajrang Dal had attacked 62-year-old Pastor Feroz Masih of the Gospel for Asia organisation on 4 November 2005.
Recently, the BJP made anti-conversion laws more stringent in three states under its control. In Gujarat, the party amended the law on 19 September, in Chhattisgarh on 3 August and Madhya Pradesh on 25 July. However, the governors of these states are yet to give assent to the amendments bills.
The BJP had also promised to introduce an anti-conversion bill in Jharkhand state, but lost their majority in the house and subsequently lost power. The party then promised similar legislation in Punjab state, which will have elections in the near future.
Archbishop Stanislaus Fernandes of Gujarat's Gandhinagar Archdiocese on 20 September wrote to the state governor raising objections to the anti-conversion law.
"Article 25 of the Constitution guarantees every citizen the freedom of conscience and free profession, practice and propagation of religion. Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights asserts, 'Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance'," said the letter.
Fernandes said there was sufficient provision in the Criminal Procedure Code to deal with any matters of force, fraud or corruption in general, and one did not need a new Act to deal with conversions.
"We would like to know if the government has been able to find a single case of 'forced' conversion in Gujarat," he said.
For more information please visit ICC at www.persecution.org





Hinduism

Christians have alleged that "radical Hindu groups" in Orissa, India have forced Christian converts from Hinduism to "revert"[45] to Hinduism. These "religious riots" were largely between two tribal groups in Orissa, one of which was predominantly Hindu and another predominantly Christian, over the assassination of a Hindu leader named Swami Laxmananda by Christian Maoists operating as terrorist groups in India (see Naxalite).[46] In the aftermath of the violence, Christian evangelical groups have claimed that Hindus are "forcibly reverting" Christians to Hinduism.[45]
However, Christian groups itself have dismissed these allegations, saying Hindus have been extremely cordial to them.[47]

Hindu Threat to Christians: Convert or Flee
By SOMINI SENGUPTA


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A Christian in her burned home in the Indian state of Orissa. Villagers blamed Hindu militants.

BOREPANGA, India — The family of Solomon Digal was summoned by neighbors to what serves as a public square in front of the village tea shop.

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Borepanga has been rocked by weeks of religious violence.

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Christians driven from their homes by fears of forced conversions prayed at a refugee camp last week in Bhubaneshwar, India

They were ordered to get on their knees and bow before the portrait of a Hindu preacher. They were told to turn over their Bibles, hymnals and the two brightly colored calendar images of Christ that hung on their wall. Then, Mr. Digal, 45, a Christian since childhood, was forced to watch his Hindu neighbors set the items on fire.

“ ‘Embrace Hinduism, and your house will not be demolished,’ ” Mr. Digal recalled being told on that Wednesday afternoon in September. “ ‘Otherwise, you will be killed, or you will be thrown out of the village.’ ”

India, the world’s most populous democracy and officially a secular nation, is today haunted by a stark assault on one of its fundamental freedoms. Here in eastern Orissa State, riven by six weeks of religious clashes, Christian families like the Digals say they are being forced to abandon their faith in exchange for their safety.

The forced conversions come amid widening attacks on Christians here and in at least five other states across the country, as India prepares for national elections next spring.

The clash of faiths has cut a wide swath of panic and destruction through these once quiet hamlets fed by paddy fields and jackfruit trees. Here in Kandhamal, the district that has seen the greatest violence, more than 30 people have been killed, 3,000 homes burned and over 130 churches destroyed, including the tin-roofed Baptist prayer hall where the Digals worshiped. Today it is a heap of rubble on an empty field, where cows blithely graze.

Across this ghastly terrain lie the singed remains of mud-and-thatch homes. Christian-owned businesses have been systematically attacked. Orange flags (orange is the sacred color of Hinduism) flutter triumphantly above the rooftops of houses and storefronts.

India is no stranger to religious violence between Christians, who make up about 2 percent of the population, and India’s Hindu-majority of 1.1 billion people. But this most recent spasm is the most intense in years.

It was set off, people here say, by the killing on Aug. 23 of a charismatic Hindu preacher known as Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati, who for 40 years had rallied the area’s people to choose Hinduism over Christianity.

The police have blamed Maoist guerrillas for the swami’s killing. But Hindu radicals continue to hold Christians responsible.

In recent weeks, they have plastered these villages with gruesome posters of the swami’s hacked corpse. “Who killed him?” the posters ask. “What is the solution?”

Behind the clashes are long-simmering tensions between equally impoverished groups: the Panas and Kandhas. Both original inhabitants of the land, the two groups for ages worshiped the same gods. Over the past several decades, the Panas for the most part became Christian, as Roman Catholic and Baptist missionaries arrived here more than 60 years ago, followed more recently by Pentecostals, who have proselytized more aggressively.

Meanwhile, the Kandhas, in part through the teachings of Swami Laxmanananda, embraced Hinduism. The men tied the sacred Hindu white thread around their torsos; their wives daubed their foreheads with bright red vermilion. Temples sprouted.

Hate has been fed by economic tensions as well, as the government has categorized each group differently and given them different privileges.

The Kandhas accused the Panas of cheating to obtain coveted quotas for government jobs. The Christian Panas, in turn, say their neighbors have become resentful as they have educated themselves and prospered.

Their grievances have erupted in sporadic clashes over the past 15 years, but they have exploded with a fury since the killing of Swami Laxmanananda.

Two nights after his death, a Hindu mob in the village of Nuagaon dragged a Catholic priest and a nun from their residence, tore off much of their clothing and paraded them through the streets.

The nun told the police that she had been raped by four men, a charge the police say was borne out by a medical examination. Yet no one was arrested in the case until five weeks later, after a storm of media coverage. Today, five men are under arrest in connection with inciting the riots. The police say they are trying to find the nun and bring her back here to identify her attackers.

Given a chance to explain the recent violence, Subash Chauhan, the state’s highest-ranking leader of Bajrang Dal, a Hindu radical group, described much of it as “a spontaneous reaction.”

He said in an interview that the nun had not been raped but had had regular consensual sex.

On Sunday evening, as much of Kandhamal remained under curfew, Mr. Chauhan sat in the hall of a Hindu school in the state capital, Bhubaneshwar, beneath a huge portrait of the swami. A state police officer was assigned to protect him round the clock. He cupped a trilling Blackberry in his hand.

Mr. Chauhan denied that his group was responsible for forced conversions and in turn accused Christian missionaries of luring villagers with incentives of schools and social services.

He was asked repeatedly whether Christians in Orissa should be left free to worship the god of their choice. “Why not?” he finally said, but he warned that it was unrealistic to expect the Kandhas to politely let their Pana enemies live among them as followers of Jesus.

“Who am I to give assurance?” he snapped. “Those who have exploited the Kandhas say they want to live together?”

Besides, he said, “they are Hindus by birth.”

Hindu extremists have held ceremonies in the country’s indigenous belt for the past several years intended to purge tribal communities of Christian influence.

It is impossible to know how many have been reconverted here, in the wake of the latest violence, though a three-day journey through the villages of Kandhamal turned up plenty of anecdotal evidence.

A few steps from where the nun had been attacked in Nuagaon, five men, their heads freshly shorn, emerged from a soggy tent in a relief camp for Christians fleeing their homes.

The men had also been summoned to a village meeting in late August, where hundreds of their neighbors stood with machetes in hand and issued a firm order: Get your heads shaved and bow down before our gods, or leave this place.

Trembling with fear, Daud Nayak, 56, submitted to a shaving, a Hindu sign of sacrifice. He drank, as instructed, a tumbler of diluted cow dung, considered to be purifying.

In the eyes of his neighbors, he reckoned, he became a Hindu.

In his heart, he said, he could not bear it.

All five men said they fled the next day with their families. They refuse to return.

In another village, Birachakka, a man named Balkrishna Digal and his son, Saroj, said they had been summoned to a similar meeting and told by Hindu leaders who came from nearby villages that they, too, would have to convert. In their case, the ceremony was deferred because of rumors of Christian-Hindu clashes nearby.

For the time being, the family had placed an orange flag on their mud home. Their Hindu neighbors promised to protect them.

Here in Borepanga, the family of Solomon Digal was not so lucky. Shortly after they recounted their Sept. 10 Hindu conversion story to a reporter in the dark of night, the Digals were again summoned by their neighbors. They were scolded and fined 501 rupees, or about $12, a pinching sum here.

The next morning, calmly clearing his cauliflower field, Lisura Paricha, one of the Hindu men who had summoned the Digals, confirmed that they had been penalized. Their crime, he said, was to talk to outsiders.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/16809-hindu-threat-christians-convert-flee.html

Home » Blogs » newsman's blog
TERROR PLOT OF RADICAL HINDUS -Expose by media


Saffron brigade's terror plots exposed
Ashish Khetan
New Delhi, July 15, 2010
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/105546/120/saffron-brigades-terr...
A plot to target Vice-President Hamid Ansari. An RSS functionary mentoring the Ajmer Sharif and Mecca Masjid bomber. And a BJP leader planning an underground outfit to kill minorities has been exposed.
Headlines Today has exclusively accessed material - in the form of video tapes and witness accounts available with investigators - that puts elements within the Sangh Parivar under the scanner.
Among those in the dock are RSS leader Indresh Kumar, BJP leader B.L. Sharma, Delhi-based endocrinologist Dr R.P. Singh and Dr Sharad Kunthe, head of the chemistry department at Pune's Wadia College.
INDRESH KUMAR, RSS
A Headlines Today investigation has found that RSS leader Indresh Kumar shared close links with Sunil Joshi, who had planted bombs in 2007 at the Mecca Masjid in Hyderabad and the Ajmer Sharif dargah.
As per a written statement of the witness recorded by the Rajasthan ATS and CBI, Indresh was aware of the terror plot and even approved of it.
Indresh is a member of the Akhil Bharatiya Karyakari Mandal, the central decision-making body of the RSS. He is a close aide of RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat and also wields immense clout in the BJP.
Headlines Today tracked down the witness, and his revelations are ****ing.
Reporter: So Indresh was the driving force behind Sunil Joshi's activities?
Witness: If you mentor someone and are his godfather, it cannot be possible that you aren't aware of his activities.
Reporter: And Joshi was very close to Indresh?
Witness: Yes he used to claim so.
Reporter: He said he was always with him?
Witness: He would say that he was in constant communication with Indreshji.
The witness, who is from Gujarat, was closely associated with Joshi, a Madhya Pradesh-based RSS pracharak.
The blast at Mecca Masjid killed 17 people while two people died in the explosion at Ajmer Sharif. The Mecca Masjid blast is being probed by the CBI while the Ajmer Sharif probe is with the Rajasthan Police.
In May this year, the Rajasthan ATS arrested two RSS pracharaks on terror charges. But the RSS has denied it has anything to do with terror.
"There is no such thing as Hindu terror. The investigating agencies wanted some information. We are extending full co-operation," RSS leader Ram Madhav said.
Now, with material emerging against Indresh, the RSS central leadership will have much to explain.
Indresh holds several important responsibilities in the RSS. One of them ironically being the head of Muslim Rashtriya Manch, the Sangh's Muslim cell.
When contacted by Headlines Today, Indresh denied all allegations.
B.L. SHARMA, BJP
Another Sangh Parivar leader in the dock is B.L. Sharma of the BJP. Headlines Today has accessed a video that shows Sharma in league with Dayanand Pandey and Lt Col Srikant Purohit, both accused in the 2008 Malegaon blasts and in jail.
In the video, Sharma is holding a meeting where he talks about starting an underground terrorist movement against Muslims. The meeting happened at a temple in Nasik in 2007 - at a time when Lt Col Purohit was posted there - and laid the foundation for the formation of Hindu militant group Abhinav Bharat.
Also present was Bhai Dalvi, a self-styled Hindu fanatic from Mumbai.
Here are excerpts from their conversation:
Dalvi: There should be blasts across India. People should die in lakhs and crores. Only then will they (Muslims) panic and come on our side.
Pandey: This will create pressure and they will convert on their own.
Dalvi: Yes.
Pandey: Once the conversion begins, it will not take long for the entire country to get converted (to Hinduism).
Sharma: They will return (to Hinduism) just the way they went away.
Pandey: You are right.
Sharma is a two-time BJP MP. He was elected from the East Delhi constituency in 1991 and 1996. He fought the 2009 Lok Sabha elections from North East Delhi but lost.
Investigators said Sharma also participated in other terror meetings that Abhinav Bharat held across the country. In public, however, he presented a different face, telling Headlines Today that he is a peace-loving man and against all terror activities.
DR R.P. SINGH, ENDOCRINOLOGIST
The saffron terror ring also had a vicious plan to target Vice-President Hamid Ansari.
As per information accessed from investigators by Headlines Today, a meeting was held in Faridabad in January 2008. It was attended by Dr R.P. Singh, an endocrinologist at one of Delhi's biggest hospitals, Dayanand Pandey, Lt Col Purohit and B.L Sharma. In this meeting, the failed bid to target Ansari was talked about.
Pandey: Let me tell you that an awards ceremony was held at Jamia Millia Islamia University in which Vice-President Hamid Ansari was present.
Dr Singh: I had gone to raise a protest at that meeting. I took 15 litres of petrol with me but I didn't get a chance.
In the same meeting, Purohit said they had stopped believing in the Indian Constitution and would fight to establish a 'Hindu rashtra'.
Sources in the Maharashtra ATS told Headlines Today that since there was no direct evidence to link Dr Singh to the Malegaon blasts, he wasn't arrested.
But the police said Dr Singh was part of the larger saffron terror ring and other agencies should have investigated him.
Headlines Today has accessed tapes recovered from Pandey's laptop that detail many such terror meetings. Here is what Dr Singh is heard saying in one these tapes:
Dr Singh: Muslims are enemy no. 1 and I want to kill them, beginning from Delhi. They own thousands of showrooms here that I want to loot.
Pandey: To strengthen our finances.
Dr Singh: The financial situation is weak... The Hindus will not give so some (Muslim) homes have been spotted for looting.
Dr Singh even mentions how he has accumulated weapons through a police officer in Assam. In one of the terror meetings, he can also be heard asking Purohit to supply him grenades, detonators and RDX.
Dr Singh: I need grenades, high-voltage detonators and batteries and RDX. Those of whom we approached say the army can provide these. If we get these items, we can do a spectacular war.
DR SHARAD KUNTHE, PUNE
If Dr Singh was being a disgrace to his profession, Pune's Dr Sharad Kunthe was poisoning young minds.
Dr Kunthe, head of the chemistry department at Wadia College, was suspected of holding training camps and teaching his students to assemble bombs.
He was grilled by the Maharashtra ATS for his alleged role in the Malegaon and Nanded blasts and is now under the CBI's scanner.
Dr Kunthe has been nailed by one of his aides Rakesh Dhawde, who helped him in his missions. "In June 2003, Dr Kunthe asked me to conduct a survey of the Pune Satara Road and Akansha bungalow near Sinhgadh Qila and let him know which would be better for a terror camp. After a survey, I suggested Sinhgadh would be appropriate," Dhawde told a magistrate.
Dhawde is an accused in the Malegaon blasts case and is lodged in the Nashik jail along with Lt Col Purohit

http://www.persecution.in/content/terror-plot-radical-hindus-expose-media

why the web is just riddled with these.. makes me wonder why you feel so victimized? over a billion or so still bathing in cow dung and counting, and killing others..

strange world indeed..

all the best
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1352481 said:

why the web is just riddled with these.. makes me wonder why you feel so victimized?


That's a typically stupid response and therefore very interesting for a whole host of reasons:

1) It is painfully obvious that the incidents you quoted are a reaction to aggressive conversion tactics of other religions. It is the result of a huge build up of frustration over the slimy converters. In other words if conversion didn't happen from your side, these unfortunate incidents would never occur. As such, you are responsible. By your own admission a group of people decided to "organize and do something about it".
Clearly, it is a reaction and not a result of Hindu beliefs.

2) Neither do I nor does Hinduism condone such acts. However, Islam and you certainly condone aggressive conversion which finally culminates in violence.

3) Did you notice the part about "However, Christian groups itself have dismissed these allegations, saying Hindus have been extremely cordial to them." ? Well, I did. :)

4) For every copy-paste you do on Hindu violence, I can do a million on Islamic violence. What does that prove?


 
There's also a lot of stuff criticizing disbelievers and describing how they will go to Hell etc. I really don't know how such mortal threats can foster a liberal attitude?

Allah is fair. He is telling disbelievers now what will happen to them. No one will be able to say they didn't know what was going to happen to them. First Allah has explained His Oneness, asked them to believe, and given them free will, fully informing them of the consequences of not doing so. And if they don't, He has explained the consequences. They have been forewarned. Allah does not punish without forewarning.

Don't you see how you are contradicting yourself? You say 'Disbelief in Allah is the greatest sin'. If it has already been decreed in Allah's court that I'm a sinner since I didn't put my faith in him, what chance do I have to defend myself?

This is no contradiction at all, rather a lack of understanding on your part. Perhaps you don't believe in an All Powerful, All Knowing God. We do. Allah knows the past, present and future. You have complete free will to make all your choices, but with His infinite knowledge of the future, He knows what choice you will make, but you have complete free will to make that choice.


Interesting answers again! Are you suggesting there's nothing in the Quran that conveys the idea of 'if you disbelieve in Allah you are committing a great sin and its a sin bigger than killing' ? Please answer with a yes or no. Coz you must have read the quran right? So you shd know.

I can't find any verse that says it's a sin bigger than killing. But since you think it's there, the onus is on you to give us the reference. That's not to say it's not a huge sin.

Nothing wrong with criticism. It is just the choice of 'Accept Allah or Burn in Eternal Hell' that puts an end to all 'questioning'.

That is the choice. And you have free will to accept it or not. Ask the reverts to Islam on this forum. They all came to it through questioning and asking, and by realising it was the only faith that appealed to both logic and sense. Those that didn't accept the message of Islam, didn't become Muslim. Simple really.

there lies the problem. If you leave me alone, I leave you alone. .

With all due respect, you came here and joined the forum and interjected in the thread.

The entire point behind Dawah and aggressive conversion is to get people to believe in Allah and not allow them to 'neglect Islam' and keep a safe distance.

And here we have another follower of the typical media stereotype of Islam being spread by the sword. Of course the thousands (if not millions) who embrace Islam each year after researching faiths and coming to realise the logic of Islam are chosen conveniently to be ignored. The whole world is being forced to convert..oh dear!

I live in India and I know what I'm seeing. There are huge hoardings everywhere about the 'TRUE RELIGION'. There are stalls in every major mall giving away free copies of the Quran and encouraging people to convert. There are stupid debates of religion vs religion .

Christians do this too. I take it you have posted to the same effect on Christian forums too? Oh, and sorry if you can't handle debate. May people of all faiths handle it very well, and find it enlightening and learn from it.

This is definitely a consequence of the Quran declaring conversion as the sacred duty of every Muslim.

Please tell me where it says that conversion is the duty of each Muslim. Conveying the message of our faith to others is, then the choice is theirs whether to accept or not. Please bring me the Quran or hadeeth text that says conversion is a duty.

I don't hate muslims.

Your posts imply otherwise.

But stop thrusting the Quran into my face at ever bend of the road. Seriously, just get off my face and I'll get off yours.

I shall bite my tongue here, and just say:

a) You chose to join this forum

b) You interjected in the thread

c) It was you, who in your first post in this thread, stated what you thought the Qur'an said in a verse. None of us threw the Qur'an in your face nor mentioned it. You interjected in the thread, and you wanted an answer about the supposed "verse", then when you got the answer, you claim the Qur'an is being thrown in your face.

Make your mind up.

Peace.
 
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There's also a lot of stuff criticizing disbelievers and describing how they will go to Hell etc. I really don't know how such mortal threats can foster a liberal attitude?
Allah forbids everyhting that is bad for us, including leaving Islam.

Interesting answers again! Are you suggesting there's nothing in the Quran that conveys the idea of 'if you disbelieve in Allah you are committing a great sin and its a sin bigger than killing' ? Please answer with a yes or no. Coz you must have read the quran right? So you shd know.
Accepting Allah means accepting everything he and Muhammad, sall-Alalhu alayhi wa salam, ordain!

That's why; because disbelieving in Allah's reviliation (way of life) is rejecting everything. Allah forbids all that is bad for us, therefore, that what you reject, are all commands set by Islam, you have no good deeds as you will end up in fire which is the worst thing. That is why shirk is the biggest sin. It is the worst to you.


And all deeds must be for the sake of Allah, because we love Him. This is the big difference between our deeds and yours. You want a reward of the life on this world for what you do. Or for wahtever reason except for the face of Allah. If you continue to question this principle, I'll easily refute you. Your brain might hurt a little.
 
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@Bhakti

Now your such an ignorant person may God give you guidance..... the Muslims ruled over Hindus in Indo-Pak Subcontinent for almost 1000 years... from Muhammad Bin Qasim till the end of Mughal empire till 1857... all were Muslims... if Islam and Muslims were really about force Conversions and forcing the Hindus to convert.... there would not have been even a Single Hindu left in India today.....
 
]


That's a typically stupid response and therefore very interesting for a whole host of reasons:

There is no such a thing as a stupid response, just people inept at comprehending the obvious!
1) It is painfully obvious that the incidents you quoted are a reaction to aggressive conversion tactics of other religions. It is the result of a huge build up of frustration over the slimy converters. In other words if conversion didn't happen from your side, these unfortunate incidents would never occur. As such, you are responsible. By your own admission a group of people decided to "organize and do something about it".
Clearly, it is a reaction and not a result of Hindu beliefs.

Does that justify equally forced conversions by slimy Hindus?.. what if people genuinely wanted to give up Cow dung for something else?

2) Neither do I nor does Hinduism condone such acts. However, Islam and you certainly condone aggressive conversion which finally culminates in violence.
Really? Show me where in Islam it says convert others by acts of violence!
3) Did you notice the part about "However, Christian groups itself have dismissed these allegations, saying Hindus have been extremely cordial to them." ? Well, I did. :)

Really? Well it seems one incident too many for christian/Muslims groups to dismiss, as it seems you couldn't read past the title!
4) For every copy-paste you do on Hindu violence, I can do a million on Islamic violence. What does that prove?

You tell me, you came here alleging that you want us out of your face, well the fact is, you are very much in other people's faces.. doesn't make you the victim or very innocent does it?


have a wonderful day and good luck with all of that..
 
@Bhakti

Now your such an ignorant person may God give you guidance..... the Muslims ruled over Hindus in Indo-Pak Subcontinent for almost 1000 years... from Muhammad Bin Qasim till the end of Mughal empire till 1857... all were Muslims... if Islam and Muslims were really about force Conversions and forcing the Hindus to convert.... there would not have been even a Single Hindu left in India today.....

Perhaps one of the most enlightening posts here.. Jazaka Allah khyran..
these kaffirs east and west are so willing to bite than hands that fed them and fostered a peaceful enlightening existence for them.. They all can't wait though to shed civility for elephant gods, cow dung or men gods.. it is really a conundrum to me.. sob7an Allah..

:w:
 
Salaam

every religion has a tradition of exremism and Hinduism is no exception.

peace
 
Salaam

every religion has a tradition of exremism and Hinduism is no exception.

peace

Yes....

Hindu Extremism Being Ignored
Monday January 19, 2004
The American media often has a lot to say about Islamic militants and Muslims who commit violence in the Middle East, and it is true that they pose a threat to others (as well as to other Muslims). However, that same media typically ignores similar extremism and similar violence committed by Hindu nationalists in India.

Pakistan's Daily Times reports:
Paul Marshall, a senior fellow at Freedom House’s Centre for Religious Freedom who recently published a book on the rise of Hindu extremism in India, writes that a country once personified by Mahatma Gandhi is fast becoming known for religious hatred and violence. While India remains the world’s largest democracy, the ruling BJP is linked to Hindu extremist groups like the RSS, the Bajrang Dal and the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), which mount hate campaigns and sometimes-violent attacks against religious minorities and demand that Hinduism dominate society and politics. The RSS was founded by admirers of fascism and Nazism, produced Gandhi’s murderers and is now perhaps the world’s largest paramilitary organisation, with millions of members, he adds.


India's political traditions are founded upon liberalism, democracy, and tolerance - but the growth of extremism in that nation threatens those foundations, and threatens to ignite not only internal violence, but also conflict with other nations like Pakistan. There are justifiable concerns about the possibility of Muslim extremists taking over in Pakistan, a country with nuclear weapons, but we should have similar concerns about India as well - a country which is much larger, more powerful, and which possess more nuclear weapons than Pakistan.

Look we even have here below an idiot admitting that he/she is Hindu extremist. Btw it doesn’t matter whether he practice the religion because same thing can be said about Muslim extremist, that they are not practicing. What matter is he still doing it in the name of religion. It also doesn’t matter the reasoning behind the extremism because again same thing can be applied to a Muslim extremists like 7/7 where they said they did it because they were sick of the war against Muslim in Iraq and so on.

As a self confessed hindu extremist, who is not even a devout hindu. I am an atheist, (non-practising) hindu who has become an extremist as a REACTION to muslim extremism, as exemplified in kashmir. The so-called crowning glory of Indian secularism. And no my extremism, isnt anti-christain, or anti-sikh, or anti-dalit etc. I hate ONLY muslims, and would like other idiots to point out to me, why I hate ONLY muslims?

I can’t post the link to this information because I got this from an atheist site (from my search), doing so would mean either I am posting anti Islamic site (let face it, there bound to have criticism or negative remarks on Islam) or promoting another “religion” or concept. So sorry I cannot post the link.
 
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