I would like to humbly express my disagreement. It would make more sense to me that God would reveal the true nature of the universe to a TRUE SEEKER who really wants to realize to truth as much as a man on fire seeks water. It makes lesser sense that God would reveal 'the perfect religion' to a selected few people who's only qualification is that they happened to me in the same geographical region and during the same time as the 'God's word' was revealed.
Non Muslims, how do you explain the existence of the Quran/Sincerity of the Prophet?
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I would like to humbly express my disagreement. It would make more sense to me that God would reveal the true nature of the universe to a TRUE SEEKER who really wants to realize to truth as much as a man on fire seeks water. It makes lesser sense that God would reveal 'the perfect religion' to a selected few people who's only qualification is that they happened to me in the same geographical region and during the same time as the 'God's word' was revealed.
I remember having heard this argument on one of Zakir Naik's lectures. Me n some of my pals were browsing youtube for some funny Zakir Naik videos (we call him Joker Naik around here) when we came across this one. Seriously, we laughed so hard we had tears in our eyes. It's a stupid argument at best. I'm sorry but that's the truth.
The first point is that if I developed a technology whereby a manufacturer could make an absolutely perfect VCR by becoming the VCR himself, correcting it and then get back to being a man, I would have manufacturers queuing up for the technology. The point is that, a manufacturer doesn't become a VCR because he cannot become one and not because he does not wish to.
Second, the point of an Avatar is not only to lead mankind to the correct path (which could be done by way of a manual) but to actually live the life of a man and lead by example.
Thirdly, a Hindu is even comfortable with the fact that the stories of Krishna and Rama etc. happened at a different level of consciousness that only Yogis and great ascetics could see. And they have recorded these for the benefit of mankind. Infact, all these stories come only from Rishis and great men. There is no strict assertion on the part of Hindus that things happened ONLY this or ONLY that way. Hinduism is a very very flexible and subjective religion. There is no book of rules to follow and so no paths set in concrete. Every man makes of Hinduism what he wants of it.
Of course, all of this is lost on Joker Naik and he goes on with his mindless ramblings. Not that we mind. After all, some fun is necessary in life.
K.Venugopal
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It is strange that you, a believer in Islam, should ask this question. You are here questioning the motive of God’s action when the Quran itself says that man is not privy to everything God knows or does. Again, just because it is not written in the Quran that God came down to earth in human form does not mean that it did not occur because the Quran itself declares that it has not revealed all knowledge. Knowledge of the angels, for example. (Actually God did come down to earth even according to the Quran when he spoke to Abraham. Abraham could not see Him but could hear Him.)
God, as we have conceived Him, no doubt knows everything. But this is no bar on God living amidst humans.
Life itself is THE instruction manual.
According to me God is none other than life itself – that which enlivens us. Therefore where is the question of God not coming down personally?
You have obviously no clue as to what the meaning of the philosophy of anthropomorphism is.
This is precisely what I too am saying.
Please do not determine for God what action He performs is Godly or ungodly.
The notion of duality (good-evil, truth-lie etc.) has been “created” by God. Therefore to suggest that God is responsible only for one part of duality is to suffer from a fragmented mind.
You say on one hand God can be unjust, make mistakes, forget etc. if He chooses to but if he chooses so He ceases to be God. How can God cease to be God? Or does it mean that He would no longer be God for you if He is unjust etc?
Yes, and you decide what constitutes God’s Godly acts! The irony here is that it is the believers who appear to be standing in judgement as to what constitutes Godly acts or otherwise.
No why should he "correct" it , are you trying to say God cannot create anything perfect and is human and makes mistakes
The moment you become a cockroach , you're a cockroach and you're not God anymore. How can a person be Tall and short at the same time its impossible , similary God cannot be a VCR and God at the same time
And Prophets have doing the same thing all along ( From Adam to Muhammad) . Leading mankind to the correct path . So why does God need to come down to earth ? Makes no sense at all
The only joker is your Lord Shiva - "the destroyer". He is so blind couldnt recognize his own son Ganesh and suspects him of coming incest with his mother and kills himself and put a ridiculous looking elephant head on it instead of restoring his human head .I always laugh when i read that story .If "Lord" shiva couldnt recognize his own son , how could he recognize you on judgement day?
With jokers like these , who needs avatars .lol
K.Venugopal
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Being perfect is the quality of God. If creation is perfect, then creation is nothing other than God. If we see imperfection anywhere, it is not because something is actually imperfect, but because we have not yet developed our full consciousness to see the perfection. Religion exists to teach man this art of seeing perfection.
Whether a cockroach, cat or human-being, what is common in all is life. And wherever life exists, there is God. We cannot be tall and short at the same time but at different times the same person who was short as a boy becomes tall as a man.
In the Quran it is clearly stated God created man so that man would worship Him. This indicates that God has a need. Likewise, it would have been God’s need to come down to earth – only in the case of God it would not be a need born of lack but a need for fulfilling some aspect of God’s purpose.
If you consider Lord Shiva blind because he could not recognize his own son, why don’t you also consider Allah blind for not recognizing the erroneous traits of humans and instead of correcting such traits at the time of creation He needs to punish such people in eternal hell?
Tyrion
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Thread title: Non Muslims, how do you explain the existence of the Quran/Sincerity of the Prophet?
Can we PLEASE stop the Hinduism vs. Islam debate? I've tried numerous times to steer the conversation back on topic, but nobody seems to be listening.
Can we PLEASE stop the Hinduism vs. Islam debate? I've tried numerous times to steer the conversation back on topic, but nobody seems to be listening.
aadil77
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Yh^
this is why I opened this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/134299248-hinduism-vs-islam.html
take the rest of your response over here
this is why I opened this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/134299248-hinduism-vs-islam.html
take the rest of your response over here
جوري
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To begin with how do you compare Islam vs. Hinduism .. on what grounds?-- Hinduism isn't a religion but some philosophy of highly imaginative men-- it isn't a monotheistic one, nor an Abrahamiac one.. I don't understand the all too frequent descending prolegomenon by these Hindus on this thread, and I am not particularly fond of topics on rats/dung/phallus and amusing gods with elephant heads and human bodies so close to the holy month!
hehe...where did you get this story from? suspected incest? lol dude....you've got to stop being so gullible man...
and btw....these fables (yeah, I said fables) exist for a reason. They explain a variety of morals in pretty simple words. If the morals are lost and you tend to only hold on to literal meaning of the words, it's your problem.
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1355191 said:
couldn't agree more....pls call up Zakir Naik and the other evangelists of Islam and ask them to stop comparing bw H & I and stop talking nonsense...would be a great favour...
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1355191 said:
hmmm...wonder why so many acclaimed thinkers of the world think so highly about the work of these "highly imaginative men"...wonder why...wonder why...
جوري
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You go tell your own tribal clan to stop force bathing others in dung, and perhaps probably outside forces wouldn't feel pity enough to want to extend a hand to others to take them out of well, dung!
You are so silly.. perhaps if you pursued a higher education you'd be an acclaimed thinker yourself in lieu of digging through a closet full of shoes to find a morsel you can dig your teeth into from which you hope to impress others!
all the best
Trumble
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Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, have been a tad unwell.
I believe that the 'religious experience' is fundamentally the same for all of us. As there is, and can only be, one Reality, to be sought and accepted, there can only one Reality that can be found. What differs is our perception of that Reality, and how we present it to ourselves and others.
We all have religious experiences, in widely varying frequencies and intensity depending on the individual. Every religion has them, those same flashes of insight into Reality, be it the satori of the Zen Buddhist, being 'spoken to' by God in response to a Christian's prayers, and so on.., but I believe all represent the same thing. What differs is what we believe these experiences represent, and those beliefs are inevitably (with one exception) set within the framework of our existing beliefs, and conditioned by our experiences.
Every so often along comes somebody, a 'Great Sage' if you will, whose insight and depth of understanding far exceeds that of the rest of us, be it the Buddha, Prophet Mohammed, Jesus, Lao Tsu, or those unknown authors of the Upanishads. All these people, though, were presented with two fundamental problems. The first was how to present what they had learned to others. This differed according to individual and cultural circumstances at the time. The Buddha, for example, had an 'audience' essentially of religious mendicants, seekers of Truth like himself, and that is relected in the teachings of the Tipitaka. In a sense, therefore, he had a rather easier time of it than Jesus or Mohammed who listeners were generally 'ordinary' people rather than religious seekers.
The Buddha, though, was the only one to fully realize that the entirety of our experience is conditioned and therefore illusory, and point in the direction of true Reality. The Buddha also realized that different teachings were necessary according to the levels of spiritual achievement (and accumulated karma) and adopted what he called 'skillful means' in catering his teachings to his audience.
Jesus and Mohammed remained contrained by their own conditioning, and that same need to cater to their audience, and hence interpreted and represented reality in the form of a God..both realized, of course, that there only being one Reality there could only be one God, at least in the sense of an omnipotent one. Unfortunately, as a consequence of their limited understanding much excess baggage got bolted on to the immense spiritual wisdom of the teachings of Jesus and the Qur'an, such as the very anthropomorphic presentation of God by the former tradition is obvious), and the inclusion of various regurgitated myths and social and legal elements in the latter.
Both Christianity and Islam generated 'mystic' movements or orders that recognised and tried to remedy it; it is perhaps the biggest tragedy of the monotheistic religions they were generally slapped down by a conservative and desperately unimaginitive and unenlightened mainstream.
Just to make clear that all of the above is my opinion, I can't 'prove' any of it. I realized long ago that you can't 'prove' anything important when it comes to religion, and it's generally futile to try. I could quite happily, though, explain why I am a Buddhist rather than a follower of another religion (indeed I already have elsewhere), but that probably would only derail your thread again!
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K.Venugopal
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Dear Trumble, Your post is one of the most insightful I've ever read. It could be a preamble to the introduction of any book on religions. Well done. When you say that the religious experience of all of us is the same, the difference being only in expression, you could not have been more right. It, if I may say so, is the same as hunger. The hunger for food in all humans, whether rich or poor, whether living in the desert or in the jungle, is the same. The difference is only in what we eat to get rid of the hunger. Similarly with medicines. If we are sick we would need medicines. Medicines are medicines but they are all different only because the diseases are different. Maybe the same could be said of sleep also. When we are sleepy, whether young or old, rich or poor, staying on the street or in a palace, that feeling is similar. The difference may be in where or under what circumstances we sleep, but once we fall asleep, they say the king and the beggar are alike. So I think, as you said, we must not make much of our religious differences. We ought to celebrate our common nature.