North Korea+Nuclear=:enough!:

[nocturnal]

About what Zico was saying with regards to the N.Korean people and their attitude towards regime change. I accept that not everyone in the country percieves of the government as a benign and efficient one. But in various documentaries, when the people are asked their opinions on the US, given the history of the Korean war and the atoricities committed by American forces, there is considerable support for Kim Jong Il and his resistnce to neo-imperialist forces. The same can be said of President Ahmadinejad in Iran.

These same people also realise that it is acutely crippling sanctions that have wrought economic misery on the North Koreans.

You might argue that since the society is closed and they have no access to outside information sources, they are incapable of making a balanced and informed opinion on the issue of their national leadership, and that arugement has merit, but even with new information sources, the history of the US, its wars of aggression and invasions from Panama, Grenada, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, Cuba, Iraq, Afghanistan and its support for some of the most vicious dictators; when all this comes to the fore, do you earnestly belive opinion towards the US and its "New World Order" will radically change, and that you'll see throngs of people in th streets of Pyongyang calling for the mericful and munificent US to intervene and bestow their brand of democracy on North Korea just as they have done elsewhere?

 

[Muezzin]

I'm lost, what do you mean bargaining chip?

Maybe that's the wrong term.

North Korea can use the threat of a flood of refugees as leverage if South Korea or China withdraw their aid.

 

[Zafran]

Salaam

Nuclear weapons period = retarded.

Peace

 

[Clover]

Maybe that's the wrong term.

North Korea can use the threat of a flood of refugees as leverage if South Korea or China withdraw their aid.

Ah, well, I doubt they'd destroy the two nations, but they could hurt the economy, but they could also help it in the long run, if they don't become criminals, or stay in poverty when they come.

 

[KAding]

These same people also realise that it is acutely crippling sanctions that have wrought economic misery on the North Koreans.

How so? The DPRK has always had ample opportunity to trade with two of their big neighbors, China and the Soviet Union, as well as with the rest of the communist world. Besides, even now there are a lot fewer sanctions in place than you seem to think. Trade is in fact possible between the DPRK and virtually any other country, including the US actually (but with restrictions). There are no US-sponsored international economic sanctions in place, China would never have agreed to them anyway. There aren't even 'Western' sanctions in place. And US unilateral sanctions are pretty meaningless anyway, since the two countries have never had significant trade relations. Are you really implying that the supposed inability to trade with the US is what is causing the economic misery in the DPRK?

They are poor first and foremost because of their rotten economic system, which simply fails to deliver. Also keep in mind that the DPRK follows the Juche ideology, which very much stresses self-reliance. Their economy simply isn't geared towards export, it has very little to offer the outside world. Neither does it's economic policies make it easy for foreigners to invest in the country.

But perhaps you could list some of these 'acutely crippling sanctions' that are supposed to wreak havoc on the state-controlled North Korean economy?

 

[KAding]

Revolutions come from the people, not uncomprehending outsiders like yourself. It has to be from the people and for the people, much like in Cuba, Bolivia, Venezuela, Egypt etc. Whether this is manifested in the election of a revolutionary candidate as was the case in Venezuela and Bolivia, or in a military revolution, as was the case in Egypt and Cuba, it doesn't matter, it is in the name of the people and the policies instituted are for them.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Any kind of political opposition, any kind of dissent is ruthlessly crushed. The obstacles any revolutionaries would have to overcome to actually threaten the current totalitarian regime are mind-boggling.

Any change in the DPRK will have to come from the leadership IMHO, be it disgruntled generals or otherwise high party officials. A bottom-up revolt seems unlikely as long as any kind of opposition organization is impossible, you cannot even travel from one village to another without government approval for gods sake, nor do they have access to any kind of non-official media. Keep in mind that this totalitarian repression of opposition is happening in concurrence with enormous economic hardship. IMHO ordinary people in the DPRK are simply too busy to survive.

 

[KAding]

The American government are hypocrites! Why did they turn a blind eye to Israel yet claim that North Korea has no right to own a nuclear missile?

Good point. But following that reasoning it does mean that every country has a right to own nuclear weapons, including Israel of course. In principle I would agree with that.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and stop proliferation. Since more nuclear weapons surely won't make the world a much safer place? Do you agree with that at least?

 

[AntiKarateKid]

When did Israel clame to have nuclear weapons? Israel has been facing agression from terrorist organizations, and other nations, I do not see how you can compare them to North Korea, when they are getting attacked, every other decade.

A nuclear bomb, like the size of those that we used on Japan, would blow up a city, but their are a lot of cities in America, and blowing up 3 of them, even if they were the 3 largest, would still leave a crap-load of ticked off people, and not all of our nuclear weapons are in one spot, they are spread out, for that exact reason.

You claimed America is the bully, so your are saying (at least, I assume the people who are bullied, are usually the innocent people, while the bully is the evil guy) that they are innocent to the USA's famous "bullying" of their nation.

CHeck history. Israel illegally developed its nuclear program agaisnt the objections of the international community.

Let's not get into the Israel attacked by other countries debate as it is clear from UN records and history who is attacking who.

And finally since when did Israel need nukes to fight these so called threats. It has jets, tanks, a military and all types of weapons which it used already to bomb cities into oblivion.

 

[Clover]

CHeck history. Israel illegally developed its nuclear program agaisnt the objections of the international community.

Let's not get into the Israel attacked by other countries debate as it is clear from UN records and history who is attacking who.

And finally since when did Israel need nukes to fight these so called threats. It has jets, tanks, a military and all types of weapons which it used already to bomb cities into oblivion.

Israel is surrounded by countries it has fought, thats more of a reason, then not being surrounded by anyone who could overthrow you.

 

[ositobimbo4life]

You can't tell a nation to abandon it's nuclear weapon program when you, the moral leader of the world, won't do the same.

 

[north_malaysian]

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and stop proliferation. Since more nuclear weapons surely won't make the world a much safer place? Do you agree with that at least?

Agree