Correction: "Trying to refute them."
“O Christ-Worshippers!”: A Qasidah Which Refutes Christianity - Ibn ul Qayyim
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Correction: "Trying to refute them."
Jesus - though God - was turned into sin, became Accursed, while upon the cross - so as to deliver humanity from ITS curse.
At the moment of His worst suffering (in His human nature), He experienced Hell - separation from God - even though He was God Himself.
To express His agony at that moment, He cried out words from a Jewish psalm: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me ?"
Jesus was tempted by the devil - but only in His human nature, not in His divine nature. Similarly, Jesus felt terrible agony in His human nature while in the Garden of Gethsemane; though not in His divine nature (since God is "impassible" - does not suffer).
The paradox you are wrestling with, is of a person - Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus the Messiah [Christos] - who was simultaneously both human and divine; both a Jewish carpenter (turned wandering rabbi) AND Allah.
At the moment of His worst suffering (in His human nature), He experienced Hell - separation from God - even though He was God Himself.
To express His agony at that moment, He cried out words from a Jewish psalm: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me ?"
Jesus was tempted by the devil - but only in His human nature, not in His divine nature. Similarly, Jesus felt terrible agony in His human nature while in the Garden of Gethsemane; though not in His divine nature (since God is "impassible" - does not suffer).
The paradox you are wrestling with, is of a person - Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus the Messiah [Christos] - who was simultaneously both human and divine; both a Jewish carpenter (turned wandering rabbi) AND Allah.
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I didn't read the whole poem but stopped here:
Sins such as the unjust murder of the Prophets for example Yahya :saws: (John the baptist) do not please Allah , the people who commit such sins are not blessed but rather draw upon themselves the wrath of Allah, and even though He is not contented by such flagrant crimes, Allah is in no way subjugated but rather the criminals failed the test and transgressed and so deserve the punishment of Allah which was already coming to them unless they sincerely repent to Allah and from their crimes.
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152. To those who believe in Allah and His apostles and make no distinction between any of the apostles, we shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.
153. The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority.
154. And for their covenant we raised over them (the towering height) of Mount (Sinai); and (on another occasion) we said: "Enter the gate with humility"; and (once again) we commanded them: "Transgress not in the matter of the sabbath." And we took from them a solemn covenant.
155. (They have incurred divine displeasure): In that they broke their covenant; that they rejected the signs of Allah. that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right; that they said, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve Allah.s Word; We need no more)";- Nay, Allah hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little is it they believe;-
156. That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;
157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
159. And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
From Quran, Chapter 4
I do not doubt brother ibn al Qayyim's sincerity or zeal for the truth but I assume his zeal for debate made him forget certain simple logic in this instance.
To those who claim that Jesus is Allah (na'oodhu bi Allah min dhaalik), I ask you to think clearly:
We know that God commands what us just so it is wrong to attempt to justify crimes and attempted crimes by saying Allah commanded us thus, since Allah never commands what is unjust.
The people of Rome were initially pagan and the leadership it appears has gone to great lengths to lay the blame upon the occupied people of jerusalem of the time, despite the fact that we know that the chief priest and his henchmen were under Roman subjugation and were tasked with keeping the people subdued under the status quo by pretending that acceptance of the corrupt status quo was what God wanted from them by misreading the what remained of the substantially edited book, we see the roman leadership's attempts at a cover-up when we come across statements such as "people didn't speak of him openly for fear of the jews", when the people who were afraid were actually "the jews", the gospel of barnabas tells us that it was actually a roman edict put up in the synagogues (a bit like the "prevent" strategy in england where people are careful of what they say for fear of the imams or moderators - when it's really the corrupt british government and it's spying trolls and goons).
The pagan roman leadership, after reluctantly accepting the faith after a huge amount of it's people had come to accept Jesus as the messiah, went on to put forward a pagan model of pure and innocent human sacrifice, including cannibalism and vampirism in effigy - in order to attempt to rationalise their attempted act which was thwarted and obscured by Allah, and it is an undeniable fact that such human sacrifice to the "gods" existed in pagan cultures - by misreading the command to fully absorb and exemplify the word of God since it is recorded that man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from God.
It is clear from the gospels that Jesus was demanding to know why they were trying to secretly kill him and was arguing against such a crime, and that debate was taking place within the leadership just as it had in pharaoh's court at the time of Moses.
It is therefore really a fallacy to claim that Jesus (pbum) willingly and happily offered up his soul to be murdered, and if he hadn't been saved by God (as he was) from such torture and buffeting with a crown of thorns in the flesh -anointed (maseeh)by the deceiver(dajjal)- at CRANIUM (golgotha), it would have been because of the sins of the people and not a human sacrifice as an atonement for their sins. One is compelled to ask: where is the good judgement of those who interpreted the events at the council of nicea? Since any worthy judge could easily read justice as justice and injustice as injustice.....
Sins such as the unjust murder of the Prophets for example Yahya :saws: (John the baptist) do not please Allah , the people who commit such sins are not blessed but rather draw upon themselves the wrath of Allah, and even though He is not contented by such flagrant crimes, Allah is in no way subjugated but rather the criminals failed the test and transgressed and so deserve the punishment of Allah which was already coming to them unless they sincerely repent to Allah and from their crimes.
.
152. To those who believe in Allah and His apostles and make no distinction between any of the apostles, we shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.
153. The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority.
154. And for their covenant we raised over them (the towering height) of Mount (Sinai); and (on another occasion) we said: "Enter the gate with humility"; and (once again) we commanded them: "Transgress not in the matter of the sabbath." And we took from them a solemn covenant.
155. (They have incurred divine displeasure): In that they broke their covenant; that they rejected the signs of Allah. that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right; that they said, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve Allah.s Word; We need no more)";- Nay, Allah hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little is it they believe;-
156. That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;
157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
159. And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
From Quran, Chapter 4
I do not doubt brother ibn al Qayyim's sincerity or zeal for the truth but I assume his zeal for debate made him forget certain simple logic in this instance.
To those who claim that Jesus is Allah (na'oodhu bi Allah min dhaalik), I ask you to think clearly:
We know that God commands what us just so it is wrong to attempt to justify crimes and attempted crimes by saying Allah commanded us thus, since Allah never commands what is unjust.
The people of Rome were initially pagan and the leadership it appears has gone to great lengths to lay the blame upon the occupied people of jerusalem of the time, despite the fact that we know that the chief priest and his henchmen were under Roman subjugation and were tasked with keeping the people subdued under the status quo by pretending that acceptance of the corrupt status quo was what God wanted from them by misreading the what remained of the substantially edited book, we see the roman leadership's attempts at a cover-up when we come across statements such as "people didn't speak of him openly for fear of the jews", when the people who were afraid were actually "the jews", the gospel of barnabas tells us that it was actually a roman edict put up in the synagogues (a bit like the "prevent" strategy in england where people are careful of what they say for fear of the imams or moderators - when it's really the corrupt british government and it's spying trolls and goons).
The pagan roman leadership, after reluctantly accepting the faith after a huge amount of it's people had come to accept Jesus as the messiah, went on to put forward a pagan model of pure and innocent human sacrifice, including cannibalism and vampirism in effigy - in order to attempt to rationalise their attempted act which was thwarted and obscured by Allah, and it is an undeniable fact that such human sacrifice to the "gods" existed in pagan cultures - by misreading the command to fully absorb and exemplify the word of God since it is recorded that man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from God.
It is clear from the gospels that Jesus was demanding to know why they were trying to secretly kill him and was arguing against such a crime, and that debate was taking place within the leadership just as it had in pharaoh's court at the time of Moses.
It is therefore really a fallacy to claim that Jesus (pbum) willingly and happily offered up his soul to be murdered, and if he hadn't been saved by God (as he was) from such torture and buffeting with a crown of thorns in the flesh -anointed (maseeh)by the deceiver(dajjal)- at CRANIUM (golgotha), it would have been because of the sins of the people and not a human sacrifice as an atonement for their sins. One is compelled to ask: where is the good judgement of those who interpreted the events at the council of nicea? Since any worthy judge could easily read justice as justice and injustice as injustice.....
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MuhammadHamza1
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The Authors of the New Testament are anonymous
Paul apparently did not know Hebrew.
Paul did not die for the sake of Christianity as people believe.
Rather the Christians were persecuted for political reasons.And they were done so unjustly
THE IDEA OF HUMAN SACRIFICE CONTRADICTS ALL PREVIOUS REVELATIONS TO THE OLD PROPHETS AS IS EVIDENT FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT.
HUMAN SACRIFICE WAS A PAGAN PRACTICE.
YOU CANNOT DEDUCE FROM MERE VISION THAT JESUS DIED ON CROSS.
JESUS SAID TO THE JEWS IN NEW TESTAMENT THAT HIS MIRACLE WILL BE LIKE THAT OF JONAH,THAT HE WILL REMAIN ALIVE IN HIS APPARENT GRAVE FOR THREE DAYS,ALIVE.
THIS IS IN HARMONY WITH THE QURAN,AS THE QURAN SAYS THAT JESUS WAS PUT IN CROSS,BUT HE DID NOT DIE.
THERE IS DIFFERENCE OF OPINION IN THIS REGARD,BUT ALL EVIDENCES AND THE LANGUAGE IF QURAN,POINT THAT JESUS WAS PUT ON CROSS,BUT HE DID NOT DIE.
HENCE THE CHRISTIANS TRUST PAUL BLINDLY.
Paul apparently did not know Hebrew.
Paul did not die for the sake of Christianity as people believe.
Rather the Christians were persecuted for political reasons.And they were done so unjustly
THE IDEA OF HUMAN SACRIFICE CONTRADICTS ALL PREVIOUS REVELATIONS TO THE OLD PROPHETS AS IS EVIDENT FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT.
HUMAN SACRIFICE WAS A PAGAN PRACTICE.
YOU CANNOT DEDUCE FROM MERE VISION THAT JESUS DIED ON CROSS.
JESUS SAID TO THE JEWS IN NEW TESTAMENT THAT HIS MIRACLE WILL BE LIKE THAT OF JONAH,THAT HE WILL REMAIN ALIVE IN HIS APPARENT GRAVE FOR THREE DAYS,ALIVE.
THIS IS IN HARMONY WITH THE QURAN,AS THE QURAN SAYS THAT JESUS WAS PUT IN CROSS,BUT HE DID NOT DIE.
THERE IS DIFFERENCE OF OPINION IN THIS REGARD,BUT ALL EVIDENCES AND THE LANGUAGE IF QURAN,POINT THAT JESUS WAS PUT ON CROSS,BUT HE DID NOT DIE.
HENCE THE CHRISTIANS TRUST PAUL BLINDLY.
Abz2000
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???
Maa sualaboohu wa maa qatalooh - wa laakin shubbiha lahum.
At the time of revelation the Quran clearly says that " " was neither crucified, nor killed - but it was made to appear so to them.
However, the appearance of such - and the encrypted wording in the gospels of mathew mark luke and john clearly contain signs for the people of today.
The first time's an indication on a smaller scale......
Gospel of barnabas tells us it was judas (beginning with the letter "j"/"y" like jonah or yunus or jonny english....
....reminds me of the movie "face off") who apparently tried to sell out God and His Messenger for thirty pieces if silver like the brothers of Joseph/Yusuf :saws:
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Aaqib
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What are you talking about?
Abz2000
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In order to get a better idea on differences of opinion which existed at the time, and how some gospels of the multitude which existed made it through to the final compilation accepted by the people in positions of responsibility - please read the following very interesting scholarly article:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/31/four-big-myths-about-the-book-of-revelation/
The Quran tells us that it was John the baptist (Yahya) :saws: who gave glad tidings of the Word from Allah, a Word which would over-rule all other man made or abrogated rules, and chapter 74 (al Muddatthir) of the Quran appears to make indications at revelation 18, so it is useful to keep in mind since the jewish leadership of the time rejected John the baptist as a prophet and his revelation would have been initially suppressed.
And Allah knows best.
Sa’d ibn Hisham reported: Ammar said, “O mother of the believers, tell me about the character of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him.”
Aisha said, “Have you not read the Quran? Verily, the character of the Messenger of Allah was the Quran.”
Source: Sunan Abu Dawud 1342
Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Albani
عَنْ سَعْدِ بْنِ هِشَامٍ قَالَ كَانَ عَامِرٌ قَالَ قُلْتُ يَا أُمَّ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَدِّثِينِي عَنْ خُلُقِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَتْ أَلَسْتَ تَقْرَأُ الْقُرْآنَ فَإِنَّ خُلُقَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَانَ الْقُرْآنَ
1342 سنن أبي داود كِتَاب الصَّلَاةِ أَبْوَابُ قِيَامِ اللَّيْلِ قالت ألست تقرأ يا أيها المزمل قال قلت بلى قالت فإن أول هذه السورة نزلت فقام أصحاب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم حتى انتفخت أقدامهم
المحدث الألباني خلاصة حكم المحدث صحيح
http://dailyhadith.abuaminaelias.co...cter-was-in-the-teachings-of-the-noble-quran/
See:
Communion
Hint: check out the descriptive names of jesus in the Quran - it really sets the mind to think.....
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There is no reason to believe that the writers of the New Testament are not those whom Christian tradition has named as the authors - Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, James, Peter and Jude.
Paul was a Jew and well-educated - he would certainly have known Hebrew and there is good reason to believe he was beheaded as a Christian martyr, during the Emperor's Nero's persecution of the early Christians.
We believe in Christianity on the testimony of Jesus's first followers - who believed that He died (in His human nature) and rose again on the third day; this is in the Gospels, not just the writings of Paul. Some of those first followers died as martyrs (killed by Romans or fellow-Jews) for this belief.
As we believe Jesus to be more than a prophet - indeed, to be God incarnate - your statements about human sacrifice don't apply.
.
God permits many injustices to occur; though clearly He disapproves of them.
Christianity began as a fringe-movement in the Jewish world; its members were rightly afraid of their fellow-Jews, especially the Jewish leaders - who (being the stooges through whom the Romans controlled Judaea) had immense clout with the Romans.
The failure of the Jewish people to repent of their complicity in Jesus' death, led to the destruction of their temple and homeland and their exile from that land for > 1,800 years.
The sacrifice made by Jesus on the cross, is a divine (not human) sacrifice; an offering made by God (via His human incarnation) to Himself, so as to save us from hell. God permitted this terrible injustice for a greater good - the redemption of humankind.
All this was taught by the Church, and recorded in the Christian scriptures, well before Nicaea.
Christianity began as a fringe-movement in the Jewish world; its members were rightly afraid of their fellow-Jews, especially the Jewish leaders - who (being the stooges through whom the Romans controlled Judaea) had immense clout with the Romans.
The failure of the Jewish people to repent of their complicity in Jesus' death, led to the destruction of their temple and homeland and their exile from that land for > 1,800 years.
The sacrifice made by Jesus on the cross, is a divine (not human) sacrifice; an offering made by God (via His human incarnation) to Himself, so as to save us from hell. God permitted this terrible injustice for a greater good - the redemption of humankind.
All this was taught by the Church, and recorded in the Christian scriptures, well before Nicaea.
MuhammadHamza1
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MuhammadHamza1
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Use your brain.
God's religion is perfect.
God's religion is perfect.
Yes, but the debate is about WHICH religion that in fact is.
As no voice has been heard from Heaven declaring which religion is the true Revelation of God, the question remains open at terrestrial level.
ahmedahmed
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jazakkalah kheyr.