Occupation 101

[Woodrow]

Brasco - Yep,let's review the history of the world especially the Middle East. Where do you want to start?

In the 7th century when muslims surged out of Arabia and conquered the Christian lands of Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria,Morocco, Southern Spain, Southern France, Southern Italy, Greece, the Balkans, Hungary,Turkey and the once Christian lands we now know as Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, the Holy Lands and Jordan? Plus Zoroastrian Persia, Hindu/Bhuddist India and Afghanistan. They not only conquered these countries, they Islamicised them. The millions slain in these wars would not have thought of the muslims as peacemakers. Castles of skulls in India - over 70 million slain according to muslim records.

Don't think for one moment that people ever forget these things.

Do you know how many battles were fought to ensure Islam did not capture any more of Europe than it already had and how many men died to achieve this? Lepant (Italy) Tours( France) and the major one in 1450, The Gates of Vienna in Austria.

Do you know how many Christian children were taken to be converted and serve in the Islamic armies - thousands, every year.

OK - back to the Middle East. In the first World War 1918 the Ottoman Empire voluntarily entered the battle on the side of the Germans who, as we know, lost the war to the British and the French. The muslims had no major cause to enter the war - noone had attacked them but by doing so they lost the lands of the Middle East which had comprised the Ottoman Empire. You know - Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. Israel and Palestine were actually in the area called Southern Syria when ruled by the Ottomans. They then became Britain and France's lands to do what they wanted with. The muslims lost them, just as the Christians/Jews lost theirs to the muslims many years before. And, furthermore, we did not try to make you Christians or dhimmis!

So - in every battle against the non muslims, Islam was the aggressor and while you watch videos made by people who want you to believe that you are the good guys, read some history and reflect on Islams past, then think about what you have just written. And think about which civilization has progressed and which civilization has regressed and stagnated.

The more educated muslims and Westerners are completely aware of this history. I can only think that you are very young and naive and have yet to do your GSCE in world history. Until you come to terms with your past you will never go forward. Watching videos like this do not educate you, they intentionally make a bad situation worse by making you see muslims as victims and entrapping you in a never ending 'badly done by' syndrome. Not good for your mental health.

True there were Muslims "invading" Europe. Some of my ancestors, the Mongols of the White and Golden Hordes were a large part of the "invaders" Check a little further in history and you will find my ancestors were quite brutal pagans who slaughtered without thought and enjoyed war for the sake of war. they did not come into Europe as Muslims it was after their bloody conquests and their invasion of Arabia that they found Islam and became civilized and then acted as human beings. In the 1400s my ancestors were asked and paid to come into Poland and Lithuania as protectors in battles against the Christian Germans and British who were slaughtering the people of Poland and Lithuanian. Sadly Poland fell early as some of the Poles turned from their heritage and took the easy way out and joined with the Christians rather then die for what they believed. Lithuania held off until the 1800s but eventually succumbed by shear force of numbers by the Teutonic Knights. My ancestors the Lietuva Lipkas were forced into Christianity, Murdered or exiled from Lithuania.

I grew up Christian denied my heritage and had my ancestral past hidden. But,I escaped from the shackles of Christianity and by the Grace of Allaah(swt) returned to the path of my ancestors and my rightful home in Islam.

True some horrible acts were committed in the name of Islam, but that does not make those actions Islamic and not all who call themselves Muslim follow Islam. I do acknowledge that the actions of the Crusaders does not reflect the beliefs of all Christians, but the persecution of Muslims does go back many centuries and the crusades did not end until the 1800s they are not ancient history, they were in the time of my Grandparents.

 

[rk9414]

Yes, but the Catholic Church did not have armies colonising non Catholic lands. The Phillipines and South America were colonised by Spain whose Catholic priests conducted the conversions, witch hunts etc. - it cannot possibly be compared to Islam.

That's an arbitrary distinction you made. They were still doing this in the name of religion, no? As far as I've read, history seems to show that these people were far more merciless in the way they dealt with civilians and non-combatants.

But hundreds of millions killed by the Roman Catholics - could you point me to a source that could confirm this?

Not necessarily killed, but victims of oppression and intolerance

 

[Periwinkle]

RK9414:-

No, it was colonisation, pure and simple.

Woodrow:-

Perhaps you should delve into your history a bit more. Poland was part of the Holy Roman Empire when it was first formed as a country.

You must be Methusala if your grandparents were alive in the last Crusades which you say were in 1800. The Crusades ended in the 13th century. And I can never understand why muslims say they have been persecuted for many centuries? Could someone please explain this to me - I understand the colonisation of the last two centuries - but many centuries?

 

[Woodrow]

RK9414:-

No, it was colonisation, pure and simple.

Woodrow:-

Perhaps you should delve into your history a bit more. Poland was part of the Holy Roman Empire when it was first formed as a country.

You must be Methusala if your grandparents were alive in the last Crusades which you say were in 1800. The Crusades ended in the 13th century. And I can never understand why muslims say they have been persecuted for many centuries? Could someone please explain this to me - I understand the colonisation of the last two centuries - but many centuries?

Sorry the crusades did not end until the 1800s. During the time of my Grandparents. There were continuous crusades throughout Europe.

True the "Official" Crusades ended by the 1600's but crusades against the Baltic People, more specifically against the Lipkas (Lithuanian Tatars) continued up into the late 1800s and possibly into the early 1900s. My Great Grand Parents were forced into Christianity and as a result from my Grand parents on my family tree was Christian.

These are the forgotten and seldom mentions crusades as the conquered were either exterminated or converted, but either way silenced.

If you get time read about the Lithuanian Tatars or as known in Lithuanian-- "Lietuva Lipkas"

 

[Periwinkle]

Yes, Europe was a maelstrom of religious wars during those centuries. I will certainly read up on the background of Lithuania - I assume that it was part of the action to drive Islam out of Europe by local communities, unlike the Holy Crusades which drew Christians from Britain and Europe to fight to regain the Holy Lands occupied by the muslims.

There is a big distinction between the "Crusades" of the 12th century and localised holy wars that took place in the separate countries of Europe.