Oldest Qur'an fragments found in Birmingham University

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Trinity said:
I completely agree that AMS is not "exact" and this doesn't even take into account the possibility of contamination.
Have you considered that this may predate Mohamed? The reason why I ask as there are Talmudic stories in the Quran that are not found in the Bible - only the Quran - yet we know their source. Could this be another example of an earlier writing being written into the Quran?
M.I.A. said:
afraid my train of thought does not work that way.
...i dont follow.
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All I am asking here is if you have considered the possibility that the fragment found in Birmingham could "predate" Mohamed? It "could" be older than the AMS results... the reason why I believe this might be the case is that there are several verses in the Quran that are taken directly from Talmudic traditions - stories we know that do not come from the Bible.... stories we know were written by Jews during the 3rd and fourth centuries.
 
popsthebuilder said:
Firstly I'm not technically Islamic. Secondly I read your post and was very degrading and *** me off and I'm not even a Muslim. So yeah if you claim to be a Christian perhaps you could be peaceable like Christ teaches.
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I apologize if I came across as "degrading" and it "*** you off". This is a written venue where one's intent can often get muddled...

I am indeed a Christian... one that enjoys sharing my faith with others... and as I mentioned in a previous post someone's faith is a deeply held treasure. When it is challenged, discussed in a manner that you don't agree with it can cause you to become angry. I does me at times also --- but I believe by discussing your faith openly and honestly it strengthens it. This is why I come to message boards where not everyone agrees with me or I them. It is educational!!!
 
Trinity said:
The date ranges put the manuscript back to prior to Mohamed's revelation. Does that raise any questions? I mean 568 is 42 years before he even supposedly had a revelation.
Thoughts?
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Thoughts are that you haven't read the article properly.
The tests provided a range of dates, showing that, with a probability of more than 95%, the parchment was from between 568 and 645.
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The skin/parchment would have had to have been from around the time of the revelations, or from before. Otherwise, if it didn't already exist, it could not have been written on. Simple really.
 
Trinity said:
All I am asking here is if you have considered the possibility that the fragment found in Birmingham could "predate" Mohamed? It "could" be older than the AMS results... the reason why I believe this might be the case is that there are several verses in the Quran that are taken directly from Talmudic traditions - stories we know that do not come from the Bible.... stories we know were written by Jews during the 3rd and fourth centuries.
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i literally cant follow that train of thought..

if it does predate the prophet pbuh and yet conforms to the quran we have today without change, then i have no idea what that implies.


the quran groups together the jews, christians and muslims as people of the book...

to find some comparability between them should be easy.

they are also known as the abrahamic pbuh faiths.. and he pbuh is mentioned at a stage of being between the two.. neither jew nor christian (from what i can remember)

which in itself is neither here nor there but islam at its core acknowledges all the prophets pbut.. and makes little distinction between them.

so i do not see the significance of previously told stories other than as a reference to the truth.


...while someone could imply plagiarism or worse.

i have actually written a dissertation so its not really something id nit pik on..


but then again id be missing the point, the difference between research and divine revelation make them incomparable.


....monotheism
 
If the same content appears in the Talmud and in the Quran, how exactly does that suggest the Islamic position is not true? The Islamic position is that there have been numerous prophets of God before Muhammed, so if the same content appears in the Quran as in other religious traditions, that is entirely expected.
 
Birmingham's ancient Koran history revealed

By Sean Coughlan Education correspondent

23 December 2015

When the University of Birmingham revealed that it had fragments from one of the world's oldest Korans, it made headlines around the world.

In terms of discoveries, it seemed as unlikely as it was remarkable.

But it raised even bigger questions about the origins of this ancient manuscript.

And there are now suggestions from the Middle East that the discovery could be even more spectacularly significant than had been initially realised.

There are claims that these could be fragments from the very first complete version of the Koran, commissioned by Abu Bakr, a companion of the Prophet Muhammad - and that it is "the most important discovery ever for the Muslim world".

This is a global jigsaw puzzle.

But some of the pieces have fallen into place.

It seems likely the fragments in Birmingham, at least 1,370 years old, were once held in Egypt's oldest mosque, the Mosque of Amr ibn al-As in Fustat.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35151643
 
Nice! I love getting informed of ancient discoveries! But how did the old manuscript end up In britain?
 

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