Omar (ra) Series on YouTube

[جوري]

you cant dilute his character in some drama.

That's indeed what is meant by those series, to break Islam to easy digestible bits to those who find it unpalatable. They were showing this when I was in Egypt this Ramadan and I was appalled that it was on, like they had Yusuf before and Khalid ibn ilwaleed. the first was made by Shiites and they choose this chubby odd character to represent a man described in the Quran as looking more like an angel to others.. sob7an Allah forever tainting his image.
The episode I saw in Egypt wasn't accurate in that the time Umar RA went to his sister's house, she refused to give him the scrolls until he made ablution, in this episode she just handed it to him. The Suraqa bin Malik also wasn't true to what actually occured.. Maybe adding here and subtracting there doesn't matter to the producer and actors but these aren't ordinary people being portrayed.
I don't want to be a hypocrite and tell people not to see it because I've seen a couple of episodes of it. But one should at least hate this in his/her heart!

 

[Aprender]

the biography of Umar by Anwar al Awlaki, frankly, is much more captivating.

Can you send it to me?

 

[جوري]

Man, honestly I didn't make this thread to start this discussion. I just wanted to discuss the series with others who have watched it and were as moved and touched by it as I was.

akhi,

if we didn't all love Umar RA we wouldn't feel as hurt or this much ghyra 3lyhi. I don't know how to say that word in English and not have it come out with a different rendition but it is truly ghera 3lyh- to not want any tom, dick and harry to play his character and portray him in an image different than what we know of him historically and what we picture in our mind.
We don't say these things simply to antagonize and I am already aware that whether we protest it or not, folks are going to watch but like I said in my last post at least one should hate this in his/her heart..

 

[جوري]

Can you send it to me?

you can find it on the kalamAllah site.. a long with biographies of all the other companions + stories from hadith + Israelyaat..

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I just watched 2 episodes and closed it.

the man portraying the Caliph has not done justice. Moreover the script is poor. All of a sudden the drama shifts from Umar in byzantine/syria to msg of muhammad pbuh, and all of a sudden Umar, who is depicted as a man of wisdom, is depicted as a short-sighted angry person who joins along with whom he hates in the beginning: the leaders of tribes. If you read biography of Umar, you'd see he is a much more complex person during the period of jahiliya, you cant dilute his character in some drama.

Moreover, many sequences seem contrived, such as where Ali as a child is telling his father about Islam. So contrived!

the biography of Umar by Anwar al Awlaki, frankly, is much more captivating.

Jazakallah Khayr for your opinion. When you create a series that will reach and benefit as many as this has, we'll talk insha'Allah.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

akhi,

if we didn't all love Umar RA we wouldn't feel as hurt or this much ghyra 3lyhi. I don't know how to say that word in English and not have it come out with a different rendition but it is truly ghera 3lyh- to not want any tom, dick and harry to play his character and portray him in an image different than what we know of him historically and what we picture in our mind.
We don't say these things simply to antagonize and I am already aware that whether we protest it or not, folks are going to watch but like I said in my last post at least one should hate this in his/her heart..

I guess whatever position we take - it is out of love for Umar (ra). I've watched 90% of the series and I've also listened to and read the biography of Umar ra before - he isn't portrayed in a different image than what is known in our texts. They've outdone themselves in accurately portraying him (ra) as a man of keen insight and wisdom. I'm not sure what the Br. above saw - but if one approaches something with a predetermined outlook, he's only going to see what he wants to.

And I disagree with your earlier comment on how 'anyone from ahl as Sunnah should feel outraged by this' - it's as if saying, liking it and being from ahl as Sunnah are antithetical. That's a very extreme stance to take especially when the stance is based out of emotions and not evidence. I respect everyone that doesn't want to watch it, but it's not right when they guilt trip others from benefiting from something they don't agree with - when there is no evidence to say otherwise. There are two people in this thread itself that have benefited from it - rhetoric isn't going to change how much more we love Umar (ra) now due to watching the series.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Jazakallah Khayr for your opinion. When you create a series that will reach and benefit as many as this has, we'll talk insha'Allah.

Logical fallacy.

I have no interest in creating such entertainment dramas as part of my career. Allhamdulillah I do much more important stuff than movie-making. Best way to learn is reading, not watching stuff.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Can you send it to me?

Check your pm sis.

 

[Perseveranze]

^ I wasn't aware that the people in the series weren't actors nor did I know that it is possible to ask people who have passed away for their thoughts.

Please, this pious emotional argument minus any textual evidence doesn't hold any weight. If you don't want to watch, I respect that but I really can't take arguments such as the one in the video seriously.

Asalaamu Alaikum,

I'm not arguing, I'm simply posting that video so people can judge for themselves. It's more of an Islamic ethical issue, which most scholars from what I've seen have discouraged.

People should be free to watch, but they should have a chance to see both sides and then make their choice. Hope you understand.

 

[Scimitar]

Me too, I finally finished Episode 26! Hopefully they'll have the rest up soon.

I think the most moving moment for me was the scene of Umar (ra) going and getting the food and cooking it for the woman and her children. "Will you carry my burden on the Day of Judgment as well?!". Man. Reading that before in the books was one thing, but seeing it portrayed is something else.

Man, I just wanna meet Umar (ra) and hug him lol.

Gosh yeah, that scene was a heart stopper

And as he returns back to the city, he rests for a moment against a wall of a house where he overhears a daughter trying to dissuade her mother from watering the milk down for market the next day... and just walks off. Then comes back the next day to offer his son in marriage to the daughter of the house - simply based on her level of taqwa... insight like that. Is. What. I . Want. To. Have. But we are not those men...

...I never cry watching stuff on TV. Ever. Except when it comes to this series.

the man portraying the Caliph has not done justice. Moreover the script is poor. All of a sudden the drama shifts from Umar in byzantine/syria to msg of muhammad pbuh, and all of a sudden Umar, who is depicted as a man of wisdom, is depicted as a short-sighted angry person who joins along with whom he hates in the beginning: the leaders of tribes.

Bro, the man portraying the Khaliph is only an actor. Not a Khaliph in reality, we should remember that he is under "direction" and personally, I think he did a good job. And I'm pretty critical of bad acting and scripts. The script is fine - if you can provide some textual evidence of where the script fails, I'd be more than happy to examine it and give you my take on it.

The drama does shift, because in the series (the man portraying) Umar RA, is looking back at his life, retrospectively. And why not? Do we not all reflect at some point? I really get irked by some of the posts here bro. It's as if the Sahabi RA are more than just men in the eyes of the anti-Omar-series mob - And therefore, any portrayal is seen as blasphemous by this mob - to me this is nonsensical. So when you say "... and all of a sudden Umar, who is depicted as a man of wisdom, is depicted as a short-sighted angry person who joins along with whom he hates in the beginning: the leaders of tribes." I see you also guilty of doing the same, placing Umar RA on a pedestool far above his human station. He was but a man, who achieved many MANY great things after he came to Islam. But before it - he was one of the staunchest enemies of Islam, i'm sure you know this. No one can do a biographic any justice if they do not attempt to portray the truth - no matter how much one may not want to know "certain" truths.

One other thing, he wasn't depicted as a "short-sighted angry person" - I'd correct that. Because all of his reasons for not accepting Islam were closely related to tribal affiliation, which, as we know, was a VERY big deal in those times. For him to part from tradition dating back centuries was most definitely something worthy of his own consideration. And we see that struggle in the series. At times, it seems he is almost ready to take shahadah, and then at the last moment he changes his mind. It was as if he was looking for a specific sign - and the portrayal of this struggle is amazing to watch. As we know, he got that sign when he was on the way to kill the Prophet pbuh and turned back to take care of his own household, whom had accepted Islam. After reading the words from the Quran, he was moved to tears. And we know what happens next... So bro, I don't for one second think this series is bad. It is a worthy addition to the tapestry if Islamic movies, documentaries etc...

You know what? If you all think that portrayal of sahabi RA is wrong, why didn't you eve kick up a fuss about The Message? That too had sahabi RA in it. just that they weren't the lead roles. Just because a series is made with a portrayal of a sahabi RA in the lead role - somehow makes it wrong?

I don't buy any of that noise.

As for the video that Perseveranze posted - that was the very same video that I found to be full of idiocy. And the salaf/wahhabi in it needs to speak without emotional content, and bring fact into it. As it was, the man in that vid made a complete pigs ear inn trying to disrepute the series. And anyone who buys into his emotional outburst needs a reality check.

Scimi

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Logical fallacy.

I have no interest in creating such entertainment dramas as part of my career. Allhamdulillah I do much more important stuff than movie-making. Best way to learn is reading, not watching stuff.

Nope. I'm simply not interested in arguing.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Scimi, bro lets not get into salafi/wahabi thing. Cuz for you to shun that video cuz the guy is salafi/wahabi is as emotional as you saying that his arguments were emotional.

I brought a point if muraad would be as willing to watch the series if Prophet was shown, he said that since that has not happened, lets not discuss that. Well, that is called avoiding the logical conclusion. Just because it has not happened does not mean it wont happen. You have given the impetus that since sahaaba can be depicted, once day after cultural evolution of few years, it would be "okay" to depict Prophet too. That is how culture/religions evolve slowly, things forbidden become things allowed over time.

Moreover, today they can show sahaaba, few decades down the road, they might as well be using sahaaba as stand-up comedians, much like what Christians did with Jesus.

 

[Insaanah]

Seeing as Allah and the Prophets, amongst other things, taught us the history of previous prophets and nations that had passed, it might be pertinent to look at their approach as the best of teachers. Allah sent books to messengers, and it was from the revelations that the messengers (and therefore their followers) learnt of the nations and prophets before. The revelations were written and became the books that we know today, from which we learn. Each prophet usually had a band of close followers, as Isa :as: had his disciples and Rasoolullah :saws: had the sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them).

Yet Allah didn't instruct the Prophets and their companions to use the acting method to teach their followers the stories of previous prophets, people and nations. Why? There could be several reasons for this. Because that was against the exact nature of what they came for. To pretend to be somebody they weren't, whereas as sincerity and clarity in ones intentions and dealings was paramount. It would place a false picture in somebodys mind. Rather than people aspiring to be like the best people on earth, they could just pretend, rather than striving in genuine actions. Once you can pretend to be a sahaabi, then it can lead to other types of acting and pretending, e.g. you can pretend to pray. And the Qur'an talks about those people who pretended to pray, pretended to believe etc. Also, how would you know when they were acting and when they weren't? The concept of pretending to be somebody else or appearing as somebody else also approaches the limits of deception (maybe not relevant when it's clear that acting is taking place, but from the Islamic point of view, when something is forbidden, all avenues leading to it are also forbidden).You're pretending to be one of the noblest people on the earth, whereas the Prophet :saws: and companions could never envisage that. We fear we cannot be like them, and pray that we can be like them, but pretending to be them takes the mickey somewhat, and loses the humility we're meant to have regarding these great characters. Acted films also then have to pad the stories out with other words, the "he said, she said" part, which has no basis in Qur'an and ahadeeth, the bits put to fill out and complete the story, and these are words that were most likely never uttered by the people concerned, and thus could be seen as attributing things to them that they never said, which is very serious.

It's just that because acting is the norm nowadays and has become an accepted medium for teaching things, therefore objections to it are made to appear to be backwards, to be behind the times, and to be over a trivial matter.

Children around the world go to school and learn by reading books. Even adults read non-fiction to learn. There are some brilliant seerahs of the prophet :saws: written, that are factual but so hard to put down once you start reading them. If you look at the first words of the Qur'an revealed (96:1-5), they talk directly about reading, teaching, knowing, and writing. Thus the siginificance of reading and writing is emphasised from the very beginning of Islam, and is locked in the very nouns that designate the Qur'an (reading), and the Kitaab (writing), as often referred to.

The best thing would be for a book to be written, based on authentic sources. In any way you look at it, acting their characters is treading on very dangerous ground, if not already there.

And Allah knows best.

 

[Scimitar]

Scimi, bro lets not get into salafi/wahabi thing. Cuz for you to shun that video cuz the guy is salafi/wahabi is as emotional as you saying that his arguments were emotional.

I brought a point if muraad would be as willing to watch the series if Prophet was shown, he said that since that has not happened, lets not discuss that. Well, that is called avoiding the logical conclusion. Just because it has not happened does not mean it wont happen. You have given the impetus that since sahaaba can be depicted, once day after cultural evolution of few years, it would be "okay" to depict Prophet too. That is how culture/religions evolve slowly, things forbidden become things allowed over time.

Moreover, today they can show sahaaba, few decades down the road, they might as well be using sahaaba as stand-up comedians, much like what Christians did with Jesus.

Ask me, I will not go quiet. Infact, here is my answer to that.

I will not watch a depiction of the Prophet pbuh, but I do not hold the sahabi RA in the same esteem as the prophet pbuh. He was, after all, Gods chosen.

The sahabi RA were human too. But not so far above human station to get preferential treatment in their own times - yet today, you put them on a pedestool with coments like "How dare they depict Umar (RA) did they ask him for his permission" - that is stupid, ridiculous and unnecessary. If that is the best argument they can put forth, then I am smirking quietly from where I sit, because the man clearly went loops with that comment. And yes, he is most definitely a wahhabi.

You fail to see my point.

You fail to recognise that this series is only a means to an end. It will not throw the Muslim world into chaos, so stop being trouble makers and making trouble for something so trivial as this will be seen as a petty grievance in the grand scheme of things going on in the world today. Find something worthy to complain about.

Let's not forget that non Muslims are watching this too, and learning from it. And liking it. WOuld they have otherwise got the opportunity to learn about the companions? They don't even like to pick up books...

Now, donot get me wrong. I love books. I read a lot of books. I have my own little mini library at home. So don't think for a sec that I am against reading. I see the benefit of educational material in whatever form it is in.

Some of you are of the belief that drawing the human body is haraam (Zaria)... yet fail to recognise that it is totally permissible to draw the human body for educational purposes...

WELL GUESS WHAT? this series too, serves that purpose. So for crying out loud. GET REAL.

Scimi

 

[Insaanah]

And yes, he is most definitely a wahhabi.

He is a Muslim, is he not? Surely that is what matters. The label you give him here is of no relevance to the discussion.

So for crying out loud. GET REAL.

I hope we can all remain calm and respectful in this discussion. Rest assured that Brother CosmicPathos is (and the rest of us are) as much for real as you are.

 

[Scimitar]

Lol sis Insaanah.

What matters is your ability to determine what "educational material" is and what "entertainment" is... that is what.

salaam,

Scimi

 

[جوري]

Question I would like to pose regardless of the subject of the thread is:

Is acting a form of deception? Are you pretending to be something you're not? Do you lie in bed with strange men? do you perform marriage ceremonies before witnesses and break that contract which is in fact binding if all the 'acting' is true to life so a woman who constantly marries for role play is married to how many men? Can we go before God and say well I was only acting it wasn't for real so it shouldn't count? when I embraced that man whom I pretended to be my son I was just kidding?
Can you act holy today so that people idolize you and then go get drunk and screw around and be forever linked in people's mind's with abu Bakr character or Uthman character? Are these all acceptable possibilities?

Something to ponder and again given that I have seen a couple of episodes I don't want to be a hypocrite but just throwing my two cents out there of why some of us find this form of 'story telling' abhorrent!

 

[Scimitar]

Is acting a form of deception?

No, it is a form of representation. If the representation is based on factual accounts, then it can be seen as educational. If it is based around fiction, then it is just "acting" for a story and that is a past time - entertainment.

Are you pretending to be something you're not? Do you lie in bed with strange men?

What has this question got to do with the subject at hand? This is splitting hairs in the most silly of ways. This is not how to make a point sis.

do you perform marriage ceremonies before witnesses and break that contract which is in fact binding if all the 'acting' is true to life so a woman who constantly marries for role play is married to how many men? Can we go before God and say well I was only acting it wasn't for real so it shouldn't count? when I embraced that man whom I pretended to be my son I was just kidding?
Can you act holy today so that people idolize you and then go get drunk and screw around and be forever linked in people's mind's with abu Bakr character or Uthman character? Are these all acceptable possibilities?

I don't see anyone idolising the actor. Nor do I see anyone idolising Umar RA either. I see educational material that allows me to understand the reality of those times in a way that maybe my imagination could not - because I did not research the material as thoroughly as the makers of the series did. And their representation is as accurate as they could fathom given the materials they had at their disposal.

If you feel like you are in danger of idolising the actor or Umar RA then simple - don't watch it until you can fix that error within your own heart. Simple.

Seems like your post is more suited to Shakepeare than this.

Scimi

 

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum

Its a sad reflection on the state of our Islam, when we are dissatisfied with the rulings provided by scholars who are far more knowledgable than us.

In some matters - we quote these same scholars/ muftis, when they support our view.
Yet at other times - we chose to rationalise our actions and use our own 'logic' to justify our motives.

Ask me, I will not go quiet. Infact, here is my answer to that.

I will not watch a depiction of the Prophet pbuh, but I do not hold the sahabi RA in the same esteem as the prophet pbuh. He was, after all, Gods chosen.

The sahabi RA were human too. But not so far above human station to get preferential treatment in their own times - yet today, you put them on a pedestool with coments like "How dare they depict Umar (RA) did they ask him for his permission" - that is stupid, ridiculous and unnecessary.

As you are questioning the status of the sahaba in islam - please refer here: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2081&CATE=120

Some of you are of the belief that drawing the human body is haraam (Zaria)... yet fail to recognise that it is totally permissible to draw the human body for educational purposes...

WELL GUESS WHAT? this series too, serves that purpose. So for crying out loud. GET REAL.

Scimi

As you are referring to the permissibilty of drawing animate pictures for educational (e.g medical) purposes, refer here: http://islamqa.info/en/ref/40054
(There has never been a dispute regarding picture making for valid and necessary purposes. Please do not misquote me.)


Do we really believe that we are at the level of being able to provide interpretations and our opinions on deeni matters to others?
What fitnah is this?

If there is another ruling with regards to the depiction and respect that should be shown to the companions of the prophet (sallahu alaihi wasalam), from a reliable source, please provide this.
And then we can close this discussion on the basis of differences between madhabs.

Our opinions in such issues, truly does not carry any weight.


:wa:

 

[Scimitar]

Sis - define educational material for me. Because you seem to think it is only confined to the annals of the past and that nothing in our times can constitute as educational material. This is a very right wing stance you take, you took it on WUP and now here too. I'm aware of it.

I also know what "Middle way" means. Maybe you should go and check up on the definition first before going all fatwa on me.

Scimi