On Nihilism

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Isambard

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Interesting. I shall give my opinion on the matter within a few days; I'm busy right now playing Zelda, but I will comment on this thread very soon.
 
I'm busy right now playing Zelda, but I will comment on this thread very soon.

Classic! :D:D:D


There's not a lot you can say about nihilism, really, as it deals so much with the absence of things. Buddhism was (rather than is, at least in academic circles) accused of being nihilistic when in fact it is nothing of the sort, it is both optimistic and has a code of ethics just as fully developed as any of the theistic religions.

The first article needs correcting in regard of Eisai. He and Zen Buddhists in general were/are not nihilists. There has been an awful lot of cr*p written in the West about Zen, the worst offence (particularly in the case of Rinzai) being assuming that distinctive features represent the entirety. They do not, and life in a Zen monastery is pretty much like life in any other sort of Buddhist monastery.
 
Classic! :D:D:D


There's not a lot you can say about nihilism, really, as it deals so much with the absence of things. Buddhism was (rather than is, at least in academic circles) accused of being nihilistic when in fact it is nothing of the sort, it is both optimistic and has a code of ethics just as fully developed as any of the theistic religions.

The first article needs correcting in regard of Eisai. He and Zen Buddhists in general were/are not nihilists. There has been an awful lot of cr*p written in the West about Zen, the worst offence (particularly in the case of Rinzai) being assuming that distinctive features represent the entirety. They do not, and life in a Zen monastery is pretty much like life in any other sort of Buddhist monastery.

I think what you mentioned has to do with a Nietzchean perspective of Buddhism.

He points out that everyone is essentially a nihilist in some regard. Especially when we shift belief systems, we destroy previously held notions of how the world works, notions of a certain moral system, values etc.

This is espcially true when we pursue knowledge as more knowledge will destroy more previously held notions because of their limitations.

Buddhism holds fewer universals than other religions IMHO, and there is greater emphasis on new knowledge and questioning of concepts other thought systems take for granted, ie. the self.

With that in mind, I'd say Buddhism is nihilistic, but not nihilism proper.:sunny:
 
Im in the extreme minority who holds the philosopical position of nihilism. I wish to hear your thoughts on it.

Here is a brief skinny on it http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgu...?q=nihilism&svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N

Here is a philosophical critique on nihilism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy5H91QHX7U

And addressing the above video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVCd58U5FM8&feature=related

Im curious to hear your opinions :smile:
Well.... I'd say you do have beliefs, as you obviously believe in logic, your ability to communicate using English, that the chair you're sitting on will continue to remain solid.

It sounds like you're defining the word belief closer to ideal. Is this right? If it is, I'm curious to know why self-preservation is not an ideal, since you obviously hold to the importance of that, at minimum.
 
Well.... I'd say you do have beliefs, as you obviously believe in logic, your ability to communicate using English, that the chair you're sitting on will continue to remain solid.

It sounds like you're defining the word belief closer to ideal. Is this right? If it is, I'm curious to know why self-preservation is not an ideal, since you obviously hold to the importance of that, at minimum.

Id say its the same as relieving one's self, it sorta happens unless you actively oppose it.

I like existing, but from an objective standpoint, my existence is not important.
 
I'm not completely sure what a nihilist is. But I think I may be one myself.

I do not believe in good and evil as objective forces or traits that exist in the universe independent of a mind to label them such.

What I think of as morality is really just empathy (seeing yourself in others, mirror neurons etc) combined with social programming and basic self interest (don't steal because you don't want to be stolen from etc).

I also don't see religious "morality" as morality at all. It just appears to me to be bare obedience to one with greater power (in this case taken to the ultimate extreme).
 
I'm not completely sure what a nihilist is. But I think I may be one myself.

I do not believe in good and evil as objective forces or traits that exist in the universe independent of a mind to label them such.

What I think of as morality is really just empathy (seeing yourself in others, mirror neurons etc) combined with social programming and basic self interest (don't steal because you don't want to be stolen from etc).

I also don't see religious "morality" as morality at all. It just appears to me to be bare obedience to one with greater power (in this case taken to the ultimate extreme).

Do you believe there a way everyone should act in respects to morality?
 
Do you believe there a way everyone should act in respects to morality?

I'm not a sociopath if thats what you mean. I do hold that certain actions should be punished and discouraged to promote social harmony and even simply for my own self preservation.
 
I'm not a sociopath if thats what you mean. I do hold that certain actions should be punished and discouraged to promote social harmony and even simply for my own self preservation.

(Sorry if Im misunderstanding) So you believe there are certain moral statements that are objective? If so, could you name a few that everyone would agree to?:D
 
For one, it is objectively moral and the right thing to do to give Pygoscelis some nachos.
 
Just my opinion and not based on any really scientific basis. I view nihilism as being a form of mental euthanasia. It probably is the ultimate stereotype of what many people believe an atheist to be.

I call it mental euthanasia as the pursuit of nihilism will render a person incapable of accepting or even pursuing any form of spiritual growth. The result is death of any spiritual connotations of life.
 
Just my opinion and not based on any really scientific basis. I view nihilism as being a form of mental euthanasia. It probably is the ultimate stereotype of what many people believe an atheist to be.

I call it mental euthanasia as the pursuit of nihilism will render a person incapable of accepting or even pursuing any form of spiritual growth. The result is death of any spiritual connotations of life.
Can you define "spiritual"?
 
Can you define "spiritual"?

A quality that extends beyond the quantifiable. Quite simply it can not be defined in terms of proof or evidence. To an atheist it is unprovable and to a believer in a Deity, it requires no proof.

To a non-believer it would be considered to be the result of beneficial stimulation of the limbic system. To a Believer, it is a means of non verbal communication with a Supreme entity.
 
A quality that extends beyond the quantifiable. Quite simply it can not be defined in terms of proof or evidence. To an atheist it is unprovable and to a believer in a Deity, it requires no proof.
So things like art and music, or even the taste of a well-cooked meal, are spiritual? I don't see the nihilists on this board claiming they have no interest in developing their appreciation of these things.
 
So things like art and music, or even the taste of a well-cooked meal, are spiritual? I don't see the nihilists on this board claiming they have no interest in developing their appreciation of these things.

True. I am also quite certain they would attribute it to a neurological phenomena. They would the quote the physical analytical psycho-physiological events that create the physical sensations of such pleasure. Which I believe are just the superficial material manifestations of what spiritual growth is. The fact of being nihilistic would not allow them to accept any purpose for such.
 
A quality that extends beyond the quantifiable. Quite simply it can not be defined in terms of proof or evidence. To an atheist it is unprovable and to a believer in a Deity, it requires no proof.

What you’re describing is nothing more than “feelings”. That’s a pretty straight-forward concept. Feelings are both material and non-material such as pain and anger, respectively.

Non-material concepts are not fully non-material. You need a brain to substantiate them. Damage or impact to the brain directly affects the development and delivery of the concepts. You are simply assuming a spiritual nature for these things, and not submitting any case to support it. I am submitting they are the effects of the brain along with neurons and chemicals within the brain, and I can demonstrate how they can be manipulated by physical impact.

By way of example, I can

1. end all thought by killing that brain
2. create an emotion by chemical inducement of that brain
3. limit the thought and emotion of the brain by removing sections of it.

A theoretical and similarly non-material (yet unproven), explanation for déjà vu is very simple and interesting. The brain is in two separate hemispheres with a cortex crossover between them. Sometimes, one hemisphere lags behind in perception, so in effect, the left side of the brain is experiencing something and your right hemisphere is slightly out of sync, and so when it catches up you get the distinct yet vague impression that you have “done this before” – and in a sense, you have, by a few milliseconds. You are simply assuming a spiritual nature for these types of things, and not submitting a case to support it.



To a non-believer it would be considered to be the result of beneficial stimulation of the limbic system. To a Believer, it is a means of non verbal communication with a Supreme entity.

The conclusion then must be that there are many supreme (no caps) entities as believers of most competing religions can make this claim.

Let’s suppose I have “feelings” that David Koresh is the one true god. He is as historically significant (and just as dead), as most other historical religious figures. And let’s face it, dead historical figures seem to be much higher on the worship strat than live ones. Because these are my feelings, no proof is required on my part that David Koresh is, in fact, the one true god. I'm just applying your own standards here. And, as many of us know, David's exit from this world was, as one might describe: in pain and suffering for his belief. That also seems to confirm my feelings that he is the one true god.

If the above paragraph sounds flaky, it was intended to.

Believing in something that is completely absent proof, and, that which is said to not ever require proof, seems to me to suggest someone who is completely resistant to reality.
 
Define reality? Is reality what you make of it or what I make of it? Is reality a distinct and material truth? Or is reality simply the truth as I see it?
 

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