Open Challenge to Muslims.

Hana_Aku said:
Alhamdulillah, (All thanks be too Allah). I am very happy to know you have been successful in overcoming these addictions. It's really wonderful!! :)




On those occassions where they DO change the meaning...what do you do? And, sorry to disagree, but you don't have the orginal text and if you do have the original words said by Jesus, pbuh, you need to turn them over....do you know how many people have been searching for those? Not one word was recorded in His lifetime, so I assure you, you don't have them.

Yes, many commandments changed via Paul...I will provide a list when I get home because I'm about to leave work. And yes, I did study...A LOT....that's how I found the truth in Islam. :happy: Alhamdulillah!

Ok, more later, gotta run! :)

Peace
Hana
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I do have the original manuscripts. Thats what our modern Bible is translated from. If you are talking about the original, original.. No,,, I have the copy that the scribes have produced. Its the same with the Muslims and the Quran.
And what do I do if the english translation is questionable in a certain area. I go to the Greek and Hebrew. (Also study how the scribes carefully copied the scriptures,,very important to know) Thats why God ordained teachers/preachers,,to study and exhort. If you still disagree. Really I have to ask WHY?
 
So if you have the original manuscripts look at

Haggai 2:27 under the hebrew word mahmad (mhmd) which means praised one (Muhammad is Arabic for praised one). It almost undoubtedly is referring to the Arabic Prophet Muhammad.

Songs of Solomon Chapter 5:16 of the Original hebrew Old Testament The line finishes with " Altogether Lovely" When you translate that into original hebrew the word you get is Mahmad which translates to Muhammad because if you look at the hebrew writing, it translates exactly to Muhammad


If you want reference

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Muhammad-and-Judaism/the-Jewish-Bible/Muhammad-in-Songs.htm


Would you deny this?
 
cool_jannah said:
so sevenxtrust...
do you or do you not agree that the Bible that you have at present with you is NOT completely the word of God???
if you do....then why and how should i trust you on the verses that you are quoting to be the part of the Bible which is the word of God???
and if you dont agree....then go ahead and answer ALL the contradictions...and the ones that are mentioned are not even half of it...
I should ask you to listen to some good debates between Muslim and Christian scholars... go to : http://www.aswatalislam.net/DisplayFilesP.aspx?TitleID=50027&TitleName=Zakir_Naik
Click to expand...

First of all, when I study I refer to the Hebrew and Greek, where there are no contradictions,, If the Bible is in-line with this, then it is truth. 95% of the time the Bible is in line so I do believe the Bible to be the word of God. I will answer all the contradictions, not in the amount of time I first stated because I have been diligently answering other questions. So I apologize. Man from translating from the original has made mistakes, that I already know. That happens when man is involved because man is not God so cannot be perfect in translation anyway. I gurantee,, we could take the best Bible translaters and transfer the Quran to a different language and there would be man made mistakes also. But God will preserve the important if it is in fact the word of God. Would you agree?
 
mahdisoldier19 said:
So if you have the original manuscripts look at

Haggai 2:27 under the hebrew word mahmad (mhmd) which means praised one (Muhammad is Arabic for praised one). It almost undoubtedly is referring to the Arabic Prophet Muhammad.

Songs of Solomon Chapter 5:16 of the Original hebrew Old Testament The line finishes with " Altogether Lovely" When you translate that into original hebrew the word you get is Mahmad which translates to Muhammad because if you look at the hebrew writing, it translates exactly to Muhammad


If you want reference

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Muhammad-and-Judaism/the-Jewish-Bible/Muhammad-in-Songs.htm


Would you deny this?
Click to expand...

First of all Haggai 2:27 is not in fact in the manuscripts. Also as far as the Song of Solomon you have translated Altogether Lovely into mohammad? The translation I get, is "the whole of him delights (and is precious)". Mohammad, has nothing what so ever to do with this phrase.
 
sevenxtrust said:
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Trinity also known as Godhead

three: the cardinal number that is the sum of one and one and one
the union of the Father and Son and Holy Ghost in one Godhead
trio: three people considered as a unit

Brief:

They all hold a different office in one body.

God THE Father: The primary truth is that of strenght, power of effect, and that it properly describes Him in that character in which he is exhibited to all men in his works, as the creator, sustainer and supreme governor of the world. ( so God the father, his part in this creation is sustainer and supreme governor, the one who will judge)

God THE Son: His office is to show the wisdom and power of God onto salvation. He is divine, in order that he may be an all-powerful, all-loving Savior, able and willing to defend us from every enemy, to subdue all temptations, to deliver from all sin, and to bring each of his people, and the whole church, into complete and final victory. God cannot look upon sin, so Jesus has suffered the penalty of sin, that we may approach God through him. He is our mediator.

God THE Holy Spirit: The Holy Spirit, after taking Christ as Savior, convicts us of Sin, and guides us to Truth.
Click to expand...

Peace,

Still doe's not answer how 1 + 1 + 1 = 1, any primary school child can answer that it is three. And by the way no where in the bible doe's it mention Trinity, so how can it be part of christianity.
 
sevenxtrust said:
First of all Haggai 2:27 is not in fact in the manuscripts. Also as far as the Song of Solomon you have translated Altogether Lovely into mohammad? The translation I get, is "the whole of him delights (and is precious)". Mohammad, has nothing what so ever to do with this phrase.
Click to expand...
Since this thread is getting to large, I would like to re-open, and I will be answering the other 98 questions as-well.

Thank You for your patience..
 
Salaam said:
Peace,

Still doe's not answer how 1 + 1 + 1 = 1, any primary school child can answer that it is three. And by the way no where in the bible doe's it mention Trinity, so how can it be part of christianity.
Click to expand...


Trinity in the Bible is called Godhead. Trinity is the term used when teaching about the Godhead. Don't ask me why they have done this, I don't know. I stand by Godhead. 1 office+ 1 office +1 office=1 Office--How? Example.Work>In this one office there are three topics. water, bread and air. These topics are all handeled from this one body(or office) So would we say there are 3 different offices?No. Why-because they are all studied here, but are also different. Now apply this to the Trinity.
 
Peace,

God is One

The following verse from the book of Deuteronomy contains an exhortation from Moses (pbuh):
"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhad".
It is a Hebrew quotation which means:
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]

Unity of God in the Book of Isaiah

"I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour."
[The Bible, Isaiah 43:11]

"I am Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 45:5]

"I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]
 
Peace,

Mark 10:17-18 and Luke 18:18-19
These verses are most indicative of Jesus' position and real nature. The verse in Mark reads:
"As he [Jesus] was setting out on a journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, 'Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."

If you analyze this verse in truth you will see that Jesus, quite simply, is not God. If he was, why then would he say "No one is good but God alone"? Jesus did not want to be called "good" because he was not God. That title, as Jesus admits, belongs to none but God.

Sourse: http://www.islamtomorrow.com/bible/bible_closer_look.asp#ch4
Main Page: http://www.alwaysislam.com
 
"I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour."
[The Bible, Isaiah 43:11]

"I am Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 45:5]

"I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]

Sevenxtrust, in the above 3 verses this is God speaking right, now i'm asking to understand here firstly, is this God as One, or just the "father". If it is just the father, why didn't the father also say the son is also a saviour for you?

Also after you have dealt with these questions, perhaps then you can answer the questions from yusuf estes that i posted on the Open Challenge To christians discussion, you said there that you will reply to it, but so far no answer
 
sevenxtrust said:
First of all Haggai 2:27 is not in fact in the manuscripts. Also as far as the Song of Solomon you have translated Altogether Lovely into mohammad? The translation I get, is "the whole of him delights (and is precious)". Mohammad, has nothing what so ever to do with this phrase.
Click to expand...


I think You should look at the link i provided you with. And not translating modern day Hebrew but the hebrew at the time it was revealed.
 
sevenxtrust said:
It seems to me you have choosen not to open your eyes. Was it 1: a command to all followers of God. No(study) 2: Was not the church of Corinth different from the church of Galatia(yes), study and see that I am from the church of Galatia culturally. 3: Take in to account when studying scripture who it is that God was talking too.

If you are really, searching for the truth, you will understand. But if you are searching to prove yourself-then you have already made up your mind what is true. Take the veil away from your eyes in the name of Jesus, the Christ and you WILL SEE>>>
Click to expand...
Some of God's words were only meant for some people while others for different people? Since when did the word of God differentiate between cultures? When reading the scripture, how will I know when God is talking to me? :rollseyes

Ummmm, excuse me, but, I searched for and found truth. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps you haven't found it yet and the veil has been lifted from me, but remains a cover for you? Maybe if you asked in the name of God, instead of Jesus, pbuh, you will see that. :)

Peace,
Hana
 
Hana_Aku said:
Some of God's words were only meant for some people while others for different people? Since when did the word of God differentiate between cultures? When reading the scripture, how will I know when God is talking to me? :rollseyes

Ummmm, excuse me, but, I searched for and found truth. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps you haven't found it yet and the veil has been lifted from me, but remains a cover for you? Maybe if you asked in the name of God, instead of Jesus, pbuh, you will see that. :)

Peace,
Hana
Click to expand...

Thats why you need to study to see who God is talking too.
 
And in the bible Jesus himself says he has been only sent to the house of Israel, Islam was sent to the World.
 
Salam,
Multiply any number by infinity and you will find that the number multiplied is nolonger there.
We know that God is the first and last(Infinit), therefore there can not be a trinity.
 
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Hana_Aku said:
Errrrmmmm, gibson....if you looked at his "reliable" source a little more closely you can see where the line of thinking comes from. :hmm:

It's from the same evangelist that claims he has a cure for cancer, and that all the Disney movies contained terrible subliminal messages and he "knows" because he went through each one frame by frame. :confused:

Not exactly the most reliable or respected source for scientific information. :rollseyes

Scarey part for me is....this "source" teaches our children. I did a quick search on this guy and really his line of thinking is way out there. :muddlehea

Hana
Click to expand...

Liar.
 
sevenxtrust said:
I do have the original manuscripts. Thats what our modern Bible is translated from. If you are talking about the original, original.. No,,, I have the copy that the scribes have produced. Its the same with the Muslims and the Quran.
And what do I do if the english translation is questionable in a certain area. I go to the Greek and Hebrew. (Also study how the scribes carefully copied the scriptures,,very important to know) Thats why God ordained teachers/preachers,,to study and exhort. If you still disagree. Really I have to ask WHY?
Click to expand...

Really? According to TwoPaths.com - A Christian Bible study, you don't have the orginals of the OT or NT:

The Old Testament (OT) of the Bible was originally written in the Hebrew language with a few sections written in the Aramaic language. The OT contains the sacred writings of the Hebrews and contains books of the Law, history of Israel, wisdom, and prophecy. The events of the OT (excluding Genesis 1-11) occurred roughly between 1800 B.C. and 400 B.C. A Greek translation of the OT, called the Septuagint, was produced between 200 and 100 B.C. for the benefit of Greek-speaking Jews in Alexandria, Egypt.

The Apocrypha, a group of fifteen late OT books, was written during the period 170 B.C. to 70 A.D. These Jewish books were included in many versions of the Septuagint in circulation as the New Testament (NT) was being formed, but they were excluded from the official canon of Judaism, established about 100 A.D. Today, the books of the Apocrypha are included in Catholic versions of the OT, but not in most Protestant versions.

The people of first century Palestine, including Jesus, spoke the Aramaic language. However, early Christian writings were written entirely in Greek, the universal language of the Roman Empire at that time. The early church leaders gradually assembled these writings into what is now known as the New Testament. They included books they believed were written by eyewitnesses to the events narrated, while rejecting many other early Christian writings. Eventually, the 27 books which form the present New Testament, along with the OT books, became the Christian Bible as we know it today. The New Testament canon was formally adopted by the Synod of Carthage in 397 A.D.

During the early centuries A.D., Latin replaced Greek as the language of the Roman Empire. In 405, a Latin translation of the Old and New Testaments was completed. This version, known as the Vulgate, became the standard Bible of Christianity for many centuries.

None of the original manuscripts of the OT or NT still exist. Until the 15th century, when printing was invented, Bible copies were made entirely by hand. As a result, many small variations are found among the many ancient Bible manuscripts still in existence.

So, none of the early Christian writings were written in the Aramaic language of Jesus, pbuh. They were written in Greek and they only BELIEVED what they wrote was from eyewitnesses. But, we know there were no eyewitness accounts of the crucifixion, for example, because all the disciples fled and didn't know what happened. They only HEARD from outside sources. As you can see, NONE of the original manuscripts exist, and there are admitted errors in later manuscripts, be they copying errors, deletions, additions, etc. So, the sources cannot be authenticated. And if there were that many errors then....imagine how many more copy errors, poor translations, etc., exist after the bible being re-written for over 2000 years.

You can't compare the originality of the Qur'an with the Bible. As the verses of the Qur'an were revealed, they were not only written, they were memorized in the very lifetime and language of Prophet Muhammed, pbuh. They were not memorized by one or 2 people.....there were hundreds, plus what was committed to writing. ALL were EXACTLY the same. When the Qur'an was put into book forum for preservation, the authenticity of it was not only confirmed by the scribes but by those that had it committed to memory. In the entire history of the Qur'an, not ONE person ever complained that there was ONE error. Today, thousands have the entire Qur'an committed to memory exactly as it was revealed 1400 years ago. Allah, swt, promised it would be preserved and protected and it has. You can go look at one of the 2 originals found in Turkey and you will see that not so much as a dot has changed. There is only ONE version of the Qur'an with many translations referred to as "The meanings of the Holy Qur'an". The Bible has NUMEROUS versions in many languages (translations). Remember VERSIONS and TRANSLATIONS differ. The Qur'an has translations that never claim it is the authentic Qur'an. The only authentic Qur'an are the ones written in the language it was revealed....Arabic, which match EXACTLY as it was revealed to Prophet Muhammed, pbuh.

I hope you can see why I still disagree and how I was guided to the truth found in Islam, Alhamdulillah. :)

Peace,
Hana
 
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