Opera:Abuse of Respect/Decency

[duskiness]

Its sick that people out there would intentionally hurt the feelings of billions for their own fame, the person new they would be in the spot light at the expense of the muslims.

And the christians of course do not mind, why should they mind that Jesus's head is severed and placed in a bag? after all they put the man on on a cross with nails dripping with blood, always happy with any display of "pain" their beloved Jesus went through for them.

WnbSlveOfALLah, I find your post both ignorant and plainly rude. You ask for "respect" and don't bother to respect others.
I personaly find it "sick" that opera is being canceled because of the fear of violence. Somehow i don't see any Muslim comment on that...:?
n.

 

[InToTheRain]

WnbSlveOfALLah, I find your post both ignorant and plainly rude. You ask for "respect" and don't bother to respect others.
I personaly find it "sick" that opera is being canceled because of the fear of violence. Somehow i don't see any Muslim comment on that...:?
n.

If you think it is showing disrespect to christians by saying they like seeing Jesus christ in pain then don't portray him in pain, on the cross with nails while dripping wih blood in the church. Otherwise explain what is so disrespectful about what I said?

 

[duskiness]

Otherwise explain what is so disrespectful about what I said?

once again:

And the christians of course do not mind, why should they mind that Jesus's head is severed and placed in a bag? after all they put the man on on a cross with nails dripping with blood, always happy with any display of "pain" their beloved Jesus went through for them.

but it seems that all you can see are acts of disrespects towards one religion.
that's my last post on this thread. i'm fed up.
n.

 

[Zulkiflim]

once again:

but it seems that all you can see are acts of disrespects towards one religion.
that's my last post on this thread. i'm fed up.
n.

Salaam,

Duskiness,did you watch the Temptation of Christ? I think that is the title of the movie by Mel Gibson?

In it and in the church ,it is understood that jesus supposedly endured pain for mankind.

Is it wrong to say that chrsitan glorify the pain and sacrifice?

Is it not the symblo of the cross,with the man on the cross looking wan and sickly with blood running down his head?

If you do not glorify Jesus experience according to Church views,then i would say many muslim is wront in that insight.
Or are we right?

 

[Zulkiflim]

WnbSlveOfALLah, I find your post both ignorant and plainly rude. You ask for "respect" and don't bother to respect others.
I personaly find it "sick" that opera is being canceled because of the fear of violence. Somehow i don't see any Muslim comment on that...:?
n.

Salaam,

Fear of violence,,,so they stopped the opera out of fear..
Not out of respect.

They did not stop it out of courtesy towards another but due to fear.

Then tell me who has to learn from this?

The instigator or the instigated?

It is always the muslim whom are at fault,
When the caricatures came out,Danish muslim and 11 ambassodors desired dialogue with the Danish minister,but was rebuffed..
And when this was made public they said IT IS FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

I guess it is only after the violence towards Danes and Danes felt the economic impact that they desired to TALK to MUSLIMS..

So tell me,,,,are you proud to instigate such behaviour?
Would you need to fear if you did not do anyhting wrong,you already know it is taboo,but out of disrespect and malice you do it anyway.

So ask yourself,SHOULD YOU FEAR? YES....becasue you know you are wrong

 

[Keltoi]

Like Duskiness, I feel there is too much ignorance in the past few posts to even bother, but I'm not easily offended by ignorance. If you want people to "have respect" for Islam, perhaps you should start by having some basic respect for other religions. If some "artist" wants to portray Jesus Christ as beheaded or any other blasphemy, that is an insult to Christianity and it does make me angry, but I will not commit further blasphemy by defending my God of peace through violence and intimidation. If you think violence is justified because some opera portrays something insulting to you, that perhaps says more about you than it does the opera. Like duskiness, I'm fed up with this thread. So insult Christians and promote violence all you want.

 

[Zulkiflim]

Like Duskiness, I feel there is too much ignorance in the past few posts to even bother, but I'm not easily offended by ignorance. If you want people to "have respect" for Islam, perhaps you should start by having some basic respect for other religions. If some "artist" wants to portray Jesus Christ as beheaded or any other blasphemy, that is an insult to Christianity and it does make me angry, but I will not commit further blasphemy by defending my God of peace through violence and intimidation. If you think violence is justified because some opera portrays something insulting to you, that perhaps says more about you than it does the opera. Like duskiness, I'm fed up with this thread. So insult Christians and promote violence all you want.

Salaam,

Can you tell me,in this surreptious attitude of yours...

If the person whom are acting and directing the play are Catholics Chrsitian...what would you say to them?

Would you keep silent and let them go on with theyr blashemy,,as you recognize it to be?

I did not say violence is justified,but violence is the reuslt not the casue.

Not listening,not respecting and not understanding.

We do not force our views on you,we respect you,but you should respect us back.
Unless it is normal in the west to stab one in the back,while still calling that person friend...

 

[InToTheRain]

The only difference between art that Christians find offensive and art Muslims find offensive is the threat of violence. If Christian groups are offended by something, that something will happen anyway, because Christians normally do not resort to violence in those situations. Respect for religions are important, but in a secular society if you don't like the opera, then don't buy a ticket. It is ridiculous that anyone should have to walk on egg shells for fear of violence.

Your above statement is a very ingnorant, It is well known fact, and should be by now that Muslims will not tolerate Portrayal of Mohammad(SAW) in art UNLIKE CHRISTIANS. It has angered the Muslims greatly and im sure the "Artist" was aware that it would given the current political climate. one wonders why they do this, maybe it is to check the pulse of the muslims?

Then you went on to "Christians normally do not resort to violence" and you were saying and muslims do. In defence of why some muslims will resort to Violence (and its wrong that they do because insulting the prophet(SAW) is like spitting at a fan) is because in Islam we have never portrayed Mohammad(SAW) in art due to our respect for him, we consird it a sin and an insult to the prophet(SAW). The christians obviuosly hav diffrent beliefs, and do not care of such things.

And then I gave reasons why the christians are not offended as much when such art is depicted of Jesus.It is because they are used to seeing graphic images of Jesus dying in their church. I aplogise for not being able to say it nicer then that but its a fact.

Therefore it can be easily seen why Muslims will react angrily to such arts, and even in violence do to uncontrolable emotions even though it is wrong. one can say to a muslim it's similiar or worse then insulting their mother in a similliar fashion.

Its very easy to understand really.. and its true, calling my posts and that of others "Ignorant" doesn't prove anything...but its a nice way to avoid the subject.

 

[Andaraawus]

you have to be kidding right?
Pope Benedict XVI declared a holy war.?

 

[Keltoi]

In defiance of my better judgement I will post another thread. The reason Christians create images of Christ's suffering on the cross is a reminder of Christ's suffering, not a glorification of suffering. Since you aren't a Christian I don't expect you to understand what that means.
I understand many are offended by this opera(or what many were told about this opera), and I would support any effort to counter the message of this opera constructively. Threats of violence and intimidation are not constructive, and will only fuel this "anti-Islamic" phenomenon that I do believe exists in Western society.
Here is the main point. If you move to a secular Western society, be prepared to be offended. I'm offended every day of my life, for many reasons. However, I wouldn't give up my freedom in this secular society for a theocracy of any kind. I know that I'm free to worship however I want, and nobody can take that away from me. If you can't handle the freedom of speech and the fact that one religion isn't protected over another, then perhaps you shouldn't live in Western society. That may sound harsh, but quite frankly I don't see another alternative.
Another thing...if you think attacking Christianity serves some useful purpose in the context of this discussion, then perhaps you should think long and hard about what you are complaining about.

 

[Trumble]

This quote proves that the playwright is not just making art, but is actually showing his contempt for the Prophets (pbut) at the same time.

What "playwright"? This is a Mozart opera!

Mozart, like anyone else, was a product of his time, and his art needs to be considered with that in mind... as does all art that can "offend" a present day audience because perceptions of morality have changed since the piece was created. Mozart was not showing contempt to muslims (or at least no more than any other member of the society in which he lived), and the muslim audience at the time would have been as near zero as makes no difference. In this instance any muslim "offence" is just hyped up nonsense - if everyone had just shut up how many muslims would even have known about this (let alone actually seen it).

This "offence" thing is getting out of hand, and the muslim world needs to get some sort of handle on it. When it comes to obtaining tolerance and respect it's becoming increasing counter-productive, and the more common such incidents become the less anybody else is going to actually care... "it's just those nutty muslims again, ignore them, they are never happy". Not MY opinion, I hasten to add, but a general perception of what is happening among non-muslims in my own country.

 

[guyabano]

Salaam,

Fear of violence,,,so they stopped the opera out of fear..
Not out of respect.

They did not stop it out of courtesy towards another but due to fear.

You hit the nail ! I also read ni newspaper that this is the reason. People in western world start to get scared about islam, because people are getting tired of the permanent whining of muslims about this and that !
They are scared to become victims of bombings and killing.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

I just don't see the point of bringing religion into plays or opera's etc. If you want to insult/attack your own religion, fine. But have the decency not to involve other religions into it. It's as simple as that!

 

[Muezzin]

Trumble, I know this is a Mozart opera - however, the severed heads 'are an addition by director Neuenfels to the 225-year-old opera'. Nobody's saying anything about banning Mozart's work, if that's what you meant. If that is not what you meant, I apologise for assuming so.

You hit the nail ! I also read ni newspaper that this is the reason. People in western world start to get scared about islam, because people are getting tired of the permanent whining of muslims about this and that !

Um, everyone has the right to 'whine', or express their disapproval. That's freedom of speech. However...

They are scared to become victims of bombings and killing.

Violence over words that cause offence are wrong, I agree with you there. There are certain people in the Muslim community who really have to understand that 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me'. It's a sad state of affairs when plays are cancelled not out of respect, but out of fear. I mean, after 9/11, films and even videogames (Metal Gear Solid 2 to be precise) set in New York were altered so that they did not include footage of the Twin Towers - this was out of respect for the victims, rather than out of fear of violent retaliation.

I think people should discuss the issue rather than getting violent - Muslims do condemn the violence. In the case of this opera, quite frankly I didn't even know of its existence till I read about it a couple of days ago. Even then I was like 'why bother cancelling it? How many Muslims would go to the opera in the first place?'

I'm not saying it's right to depict the Prophet Muhammad (SAW), it's just something to bear in mind. On the other hand, playing Devil's advocate of sorts, in the case of the opera, if the severed head in question is not essential to the plot (and frankly it seems to be simply artistic masturbation on the part of the director), would it still be violating freedom of speech to simply remove that prop, yet keep the others intact? I.e. don't cancel the play, don't remove the entire scene in question, just remove the Muhammad prop. Would that have been reasonable, considering the violence it would most likely cause?

I do wonder if those arguing that freedom of speech has been violated would say the same thing for, say, certain videogames being removed from shelves because of causing offence to religous groups. Or, to go one step further, the game 'Manhunt' being banned in New Zealand on grounds of violence.

 

[Fishman]

just remove the Muhammad prop. Would that have been reasonable, considering the violence it would most likely cause?

Jesus (pbuh) is a prophet too, why shouldn't his head prop also be removed?

 

[KAding]

Jesus (pbuh) is a prophet too, why shouldn't his head prop also be removed?

What about the polytheists, can we still decapitate them?

 

[Fishman]

What about the polytheists, can we still decapitate them?

A decapitated head of Poseidon is not offensive to Muslims, but it could be to somebody else.