Orlando Shooting - Young man with Extreme Mind

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I don't need you lecturing me around. I know already what is right and wrong. Not my problem that you are ignorant not to know that this is wrong.

Or ignorant enough to think this is what Islam teaches. I don't like gays tho.

Islam teaches only good things. I remain objective, not subjective.

You are a child, and you have a lot to learn.

Peace

 

[Serinity]

Mass bombings and murder occur in the name of democracy and 'freedom'.

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

So, for those of you who are not Americans, you probably do not feel the heat of the situation even though I do as I live in the United States and specifically the South where this tragedy occurred. It is sickening that there are Muslims that actually feel it is okay to kill people who are different than them as a pledge to the terrorist organization Daesh. And for this to happen in Shahru Ramadan, a time wherein Muslims are to feel the pangs of hunger in solidarity with indigent population in the world who cannot afford the means to fill their bellies with food or quench their thirsts and also a time wherein we're as human beings to learn mastery over the baser desires of the self, is completely disgusting and unacceptable. For all those who nod their heads and go about their business believing that gays are lesser somehow as human beings, that's unacceptable - we learn in Islam to separate the sin from the sinners and we're all sinners and all deserve a chance to receive God's guidance and mercy and let's not forget that in Islam a person also has due process and proof and witnesses and court and concepts of both justice and lenience.

@EgyptPrincess: Certainly, I admit I am not gay and I therefore cannot claim an understanding of people struggling with gay desires. Yet at the same time since I have known gay people, I do see them as human beings and not nonentities. And yes, I absolutely feel sorry for the people who died, not because I can somehow understand their struggles but because I don't see how they didn't matter. Also, I see at least one commonality with the gay community that Muslims share in modern-day time, and that is the wider global society's lack of complete disregard for the humanness of Muslims and gays. It is completely biased and ridiculous and one hopes that Muslims more than anyone should know that Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “None of you has faith until he loves for his brother or his neighbor what he loves for himself” (Sahih Muslim 45). In this hadith narration, Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) didn't specify the neighbor be a Muslim or that the neighbor be non-gay. Also, we have the hadith that holds, “All creatures of Allah are His family, therefore, amongst His creations, God likes the person who treats His creatures in a good manner (and takes care of their necessities)” (Mishkat).

@Serenity: Extremists are the bane of society and probably as much as they may like to believe otherwise, are probably persons on whom the wrath of God is most severe on Judgment Day because they cannot understand one thing: Judgment is for God, not human beings. Shariah cannot be implemented on people of other faiths or no faith, and we should already know this because in the time of the 5th Caliph Umar ibn Abd Al-Aziz in Islamic history the Caliph was disturbed to find that Zoroastrians in the land of Persia marry their biological mothers and biological sisters and in Islam that is considered incest. So, the 5th Caliph consulted the famed religious figure Hasan al-Basri about the matter and Hasan Al-Basri replied that Islam's rules cannot be implemented on Zoroastrians in this matter as their faith allowed the practice and therefore the practice must be accepted as a means of respecting the faith of those people. Traditional Islam, long before Daesh and their ridiculous online and real-life supporters emerged, has long been the topmost on the scale of tolerance and acceptance and yet this very thing is missing in today's time, and I cannot help but feel this is the result of a specific virulent strain of Islam having infected the global Muslim community due to political dissatisfaction of interference in geopolitical affairs of the Middle East. It is not just vigilantism that is the problem; it is the idea that we can usurp God's judgment for ourselves and act on that judgment as judge, jury, and executioner all neatly rolled into one like a butcher - is that what Islam teachers or is that what Satan teaches? And FYI, yes, this newsworthy item comprises of a satanic deed that is indeed completely haram (forbidden).

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

 

[Serinity]

we are all learning, so all is good. So we can not implement Shariah on other people?

Vigilantism is haram, I know.

This is a learning curve for me.

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

First off, the Floridian who did this was a wife-beater as reported by the ex-wife, and I can already tell you that people like that have a habit of preying on the weak and defenseless and therefore probably persons who I'd consider as inhabiting the worst dregs of society. Not any representative of Islam.

Secondly, no, shariah cannot be implemented on non-Muslims as Islam permits them their own rules and laws.

Also, please understand even in Islam during the time of Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him), during the 23 years of Revelation that came, the first 13 years was only about teaching persons the Oneness of God and only later did the rules come once the Muslims' hearts had been prepared and readied to accept God's commands. Would you expect a kinder-gardener to solve equations of quantum physics? Why not? Because the person is not prepared or ready.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

we are all learning, so all is good. So we can not implement Shariah on other people?

Vigilantism is haram, I know.

This is a learning curve for me.

 

[*charisma*]

Some may think "they are gay, so it is ok to kill them"

So is it halal or haram? the Shaykh didn't answer the question.

Can't blame the kid.

It's haram. Muslims are living in the West, under the government of the West, amongst the people of the West, with the freedom to practice their own religion. There is a contract between you and the west that allows you to live there. You want to kill gays, then establish your own country where you have your own rules, but as far as I know, killing someone in the west just because they are gay is unlawful. Killing any human being when you're not engaged in war or attack, is unlawful.

We weren't put on this earth to kill people who are different than us. We're supposed to serve to one another as a reminder or a dawah towards islam. Do you know why some gays live a gay life? Because EVERY RELIGION turns them away for being gay. They are outcasted. They're told they're hated etc. in result they become irreligious. If Muslims put in the time to actually give proper dawah and teach them what trials and tribulations are and that they have a supportive Ummah to help keep them on the right track, then PERHAPS with Allah's will they become guided and they live righteous lives. But unfortunately Muslims these days don't have the skills of giving dawah, especially when they are blind themselves.
Gay people struggle with their nafs just as straight people do. Look at all the straight Muslims who still can't stay away from the opposite sex and cry from heartbreak. You at least have Islam to help you get through, a gay person is generally turned away as soon as he says he's gay and does not know what to do and has no one to help him. We can be disgusted about his nature, but how do we not feel the same disgust about ours when we can't control ourselves? Committing zina is just as corrupting as committing homosexual acts.

O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted. (49:13)​

That being said, I don't know how accurate the story of what happened is. The media has a way of turning people against one another. Just before this happened, someone shot a up and coming singer at a club, and there was absolutely no mention of his religion or background. Although thankfully people are waking up to this fact.

But dear brothers and sisters, Yes our own people are being killed in warfare, they're being starved, they're being raped, but we are not zionists to forget how to empathize and to take the role of the victim each time. We're not meant to be understood by everywhere "islam began as something strange and will revert to being strange as it began, so give glad tidings to the strangers." Do not be EVER ALLOW yourselves to become desensitized. If you lose your empathy you have lost a lot. The tests that Allah puts our people through is only a BENEFIT to them inshallah for their end is the highest level of paradise. But as for us we are still alive and we can make a positive difference by learning our deen and sharing it with others, and being kind, and being sympathetic. I'm not saying to assimilate completely and become so westernized to the point that you are sugarcoating your religion and lose your spine, but the very LEAST you can do is get your feelings in check and learn about your deen.

 

[Serinity]

Well, I will see what Allah SWT will do to me when I die. I know He SWT is All-Just. So yep.

I will ask Allah SWT when I die.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

It's haram. Muslims are living in the West, under the government of the West, amongst the people of the West, with the freedom to practice their own religion. There is a contract between you and the west that allows you to live there. You want to kill gays, then establish your own country where you have your own rules, but as far as I know, killing someone in the west just because they are gay is unlawful. Killing any human being when you're not engaged in war or attack, is unlawful.

We weren't put on this earth to kill people who are different than us.

This is one of the best posts I've seen on the forum for a long time.

Thank you very much, charisma.

Peace

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

I have interacted online with you previously as well, though not in any great capacity; I've also read some of your previous threads.

Here's what I have to say of sincere advice that I will offer you: Do not listen to any person, whether seemingly the most pious Muslim, if he/she poisons your Islam and warps your understanding of mercy that is Islam. There is a reason that the etiquette of reading Quran requires us to say "Bismillah Ir-Rehman Ir-Raheem" ("In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful") each and every time we open to read Allah's Word and that is because it is to remember and remind that the compassion and mercy of Allah overpowers and encompasses everything in existence, has been in existence, and all that will be in existence.

Be happy that you're Muslim; but there's nothing to be happy about bigotry or being bigoted towards those different from us. You're young, and you'll grow into your Islam, but the more you try to fit yourself into the mold of the false image of the angry Muslim that is stereotypical now in the media and also encouraged within some online circles of Daesh-types, the more your iman will go down and more you'll feel lost and less and less happy about your Islam. Happy people want happiness for everyone, and if you truly believe Islam is that happiness, you'll first represent that happiness of Islam in yourself.

Well, I will see what Allah SWT will do to me when I die. I know He SWT is All-Just. So yep.

I will ask Allah SWT when I die.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

 

[Serinity]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

I have interacted online with you previously as well, though not in any great capacity; I've also read some of your previous threads.

Here's what I have to say of sincere advice that I will offer you: Do not listen to any person, whether seemingly the most pious Muslim, if he/she poisons your Islam and warps your understanding of mercy that is Islam. There is a reason that the etiquette of reading Quran requires us to say "Bismillah Ir-Rehman Ir-Raheem" ("In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful") each and every time we open to read Allah's Word and that is because it is to remember and remind that the compassion and mercy of Allah overpowers and encompasses everything in existence, has been in existence, and all that will be in existence.

Be happy that you're Muslim; but there's nothing to be happy about bigotry or being bigoted towards those different from us. You're young, and you'll grow into your Islam, but the more you try to fit yourself into the mold of the false image of the angry Muslim that is stereotypical now in the media and also encouraged within some online circles of Daesh-types, the more your iman will go down and more you'll feel lost and less and less happy about your Islam. Happy people want happiness for everyone, and if you truly believe Islam is that happiness, you'll first represent that happiness of Islam in yourself.



:wa: (And peace be upon you)

I don't like bigotry, and I am well-aware that my issue is an individual issue.

I will in shaa' Allah learn the correct Islam.

I just have so many questions to ask Allah SWT on the day of judgment.

I don't like the way Islam is being portrayed, either.

 

[*charisma*]

Well, I will see what Allah SWT will do to me when I die. I know He SWT is All-Just. So yep.

I will ask Allah SWT when I die.

Fear Allah brother. You have not even completed reading the entire Quran. If SCHOLARS who have spent the majority of their lifetime acquiring knowledge and practicing their deen aren't out and about killing people, then you have no say in who gets killed and who stays alive. That's Allah's job. The biggest reward of the believer is to see Allah's face on the day of judgement. You will not even have that blessing if you transgress your religion, you will just be questioned and punished. Allah is just and with His justice comes His grave punishment. The Quran, hadith, and the messenger of Allah pbuh answer all of the questions we need in order to live our lives righteously. If you want to overlook the guidance Allah ordained for us to follow, then be aware that the pride you have now to "ask Allah questions" will not be there on the day of humiliation. You'd be lucky to even let out a breath.

 

[Cpt.America]

Sweetie people die everyday by the thousands, our hearts can't accommodate them all. People died yes it's tragic but do we really need to try and feel sorry for them?

Admit it, you don't feel "sorry" for them, you didn't even know them. You just think you should feel sorry for them because that is what social protocol says we should do.

Ultimately we tend to care for people who we can relate to, family, friends etc. Anyone who says they genuinely feel sorry for a bunch of gay strangers is lying, or they're mentally ill.

I genuinely feel sorry for them.
This life is all they had. And it's done now.
Their books are closed.

They will never have another chance to do a good deed.
They will never have another chance to correct themselves and turn to Allah.
It's done. It's over. All enjoyment they would have ever felt, has been fulfilled. And in such a petty place such as this life.

Theyve lost the dunya, with no akhirat to look forward to.

Any of us can die at any time in any day in any unexpected way.
We must be careful InshaaAllah and beg Allah to not allow ourselves to waste our time and throw away our akhirat for a few moments of pleasure here.

Their ending is truly tragic. To end in such a state of affairs.

May Allah protect us and preserve our Imaan.

 

[Cpt.America]

I don't need you lecturing me around. I know already what is right and wrong. Not my problem that you are ignorant not to know that this is wrong.

Or ignorant enough to think this is what Islam teaches. I don't like gays tho.

Islam teaches only good things. I remain objective, not subjective.

I know killing innocents is wrong. But I don't have the capacity to mourn over people I hardly know.

Untrue. You have the capacity to feel a sadness of a soul passing. Especially knowing that in all likelihood that soul will face torment for an eternity and a half for their deeds. That should be enough to bring tears to our eyes:
Knowing that Allah has guided us despite ourselves and our sins. And being grateful of Allah's Mercy.
and
Knowing that we can still lose the tranquility and beauty of Imaan, and be of the hypocrites who will suffer a fate far worse than almost any kaafir in their graves, if we choose to poison our hearts with arrogance. And being fearful of Allah's wrath.


http://dailyhadith.abuaminaelias.co...eral-of-a-jew-out-of-respect-for-his-humanity

 

[Serinity]

Fear Allah brother. You have not even completed reading the entire Quran. If SCHOLARS who have spent the majority of their lifetime acquiring knowledge and practicing their deen aren't out and about killing people, then you have no say in who gets killed and who stays alive. That's Allah's job. The biggest reward of the believer is to see Allah's face on the day of judgement. You will not even have that blessing if you transgress your religion, you will just be questioned and punished. Allah is just and with His justice comes His grave punishment. The Quran, hadith, and the messenger of Allah pbuh answer all of the questions we need in order to live our lives righteously. If you want to overlook the guidance Allah ordained for us to follow, then be aware that the pride you have now to "ask Allah questions" will not be there on the day of humiliation. You'd be lucky to even let out a breath.

I am not ignoring Allah's (SWT) guidance.

I am just asking for Justice. I just want to see the Justice of Allah :Swt:

So I will ask Allah SWT, In shaa' Allah.

May Allah SWT forgive me and remove whatever pride I have. Ameen.

What wrong is there in asking Allah SWT? I'd love to see the Justice of Allah SWT. The wrath of Allah SWT.

I want to see Allah SWT's Justice.

 

[EgyptPrincess]

I don't think anyone is actually suggesting that it was ok to kill them people right?

Obviously it's not ok to do this kind of thing.

 

[EgyptPrincess]

I genuinely feel sorry for them.
This life is all they had. And it's done now.
Their books are closed.

They will never have another chance to do a good deed.
They will never have another chance to correct themselves and turn to Allah.
It's done. It's over. All enjoyment they would have ever felt, has been fulfilled. And in such a petty place such as this life.

Theyve lost the dunya, with no akhirat to look forward to.

Any of us can die at any time in any day in any unexpected way.
We must be careful InshaaAllah and beg Allah to not allow ourselves to waste our time and throw away our akhirat for a few moments of pleasure here.

Their ending is truly tragic. To end in such a state of affairs.

May Allah protect us and preserve our Imaan.

You make some good points. I think I was too harsh to say what I said.

I've always had trouble with empathy though and being empathetic to others. I'm an incredibly selfish person astaghfirullah. Even caring about those closest to me sometimes proves difficult.

Thanks for reminding me

 

[Serinity]

Untrue. You have the capacity to feel a sadness of a soul passing. Especially knowing that in all likelihood that soul will face torment for an eternity and a half for their deeds. That should be enough to bring tears to our eyes:
Knowing that Allah has guided us despite ourselves and our sins. And being grateful of Allah's Mercy.
and
Knowing that we can still lose the tranquility and beauty of Imaan, and be of the hypocrites who will suffer a fate far worse than almost any kaafir in their graves, if we choose to poison our hearts with arrogance. And being fearful of Allah's wrath.


http://dailyhadith.abuaminaelias.co...eral-of-a-jew-out-of-respect-for-his-humanity

May Allah SWT guide me. Ameen.

I am probably engulfed in my own arrogance and bigotry. My hatred for sodomy seem to override my empathy.

I am a bad person. Sigh. :/

 

[Scimitar]

Well, these extremists think it is permissible.

one can't really blame those extremists. People need to educate themselves.

These two sentences leave a lot to be desired.

You can't blame the extremists for being extreme? Then what can you blame? Their ignorance? Isn't that part and parcel of the very same thing?

Today they have no excuses - we live in a world of INFORMATION, where any two bit idiot can learn anything, if they only search for it.

If someone is inclined to do evil, they will search of that which is evil.

Heck I remember last year when some muppet joined here and claimed the adverts he was seeing at the top of the Islamicboard page was always advertising pornographic websites and he was appalled at this display of advert on the sites main page... yet when I explained how google ad-words pool his search results from google and then display the relevant adverts to his interests on Islamicboard, he quickly ran off with his tail between his legs lol.

it's no secret, we got some real idiots on this forum who would rather discuss Islam from their "opinion" instead of from knowledge of the subject itself.

So when you write - one can't blame the extremists, people need to educate themselves - I ask, do you have a brain in that skull of yours? because I see no logic in such a wild statement.

Opinions are fitan, when they come from the "self"... let that be known clearly.

Scimi

 

[Serinity]

These two sentences leave a lot to be desired.

You can't blame the extremists for being extreme? Then what can you blame? Their ignorance? Isn't that part and parcel of the very same thing?

Today they have no excuses - we live in a world of INFORMATION, where any two bit idiot can learn anything, if they only search for it.

If someone is inclined to do evil, they will search of that which is evil.

Heck I remember last year when some muppet joined here and claimed the adverts he was seeing at the top of the Islamicboard page was always advertising pornographic websites and he was appalled at this display of advert on the sites main page... yet when I explained how google ad-words pool his search results from google and then display the relevant adverts to his interests on Islamicboard, he quickly ran off with his tail between his legs lol.

it's no secret, we got some real idiots on this forum who would rather discuss Islam from their "opinion" instead of from knowledge of the subject itself.

So when you write - one can't blame the extremists, people need to educate themselves - I ask, do you have a brain in that skull of yours? because I see no logic in such a wild statement.

Opinions are fitan, when they come from the "self"... let that be known clearly.

Scimi

I am happy to see people like you.

 

[Cpt.America]

I am not ignoring Allah's (SWT) guidance.

I am just asking for Justice. I just want to see the Justice of Allah :Swt:

So I will ask Allah SWT, In shaa' Allah.

May Allah SWT forgive me and remove whatever pride I have. Ameen.

What wrong is there in asking Allah SWT? I'd love to see the Justice of Allah SWT. The wrath of Allah SWT.

I want to see Allah SWT's Justice.

Do not ask for this.
The destroyed nations of the past would taunt their messengers and ask "when is justice going to come?"
We know Allah's Justice is perfect.
And we also know that Allah is Most Merciful.
And that Allah's Mercy outweighs His wrath.

If we ask to see justice against people, if ask to see Allah's wrath.
Then be ready to pay for our own sins.

I am not perfect. I know my sins. I need Allah's Mercy to have time to correct myself. I am not ready to face the full weight of my sins against me.

If Allah gave Firawn time after he was killing babies.
If Allah gave Firawn time after being sent a Prophet.
If Allah gave Firawn time after being sent plague after plague to turn him to the straight path.
Then I hold on to dear hope that Allah gives me time to correct myself and improve my Imaan.

Firawn ignored every chance and every warning and all the time he was given. His time is up, and he will receive full justice.

Are you ready for justice right now? Are you ready for the full brunt of your sins right now?
If you are, then your confidence is something I can never match in myself.
If you are not, then let us seek Allah's Mercy and make use of the time we are given here to defeat our naffs and remedy our sins and turn to Allah,
instead of worrying about how other people will be punished.

The wrong doers will be punished. With a taste of the punishment in this life and the full brunt of their deeds in the hereafter. I assure you. Read the Quran.

But my fear is that I may be one of those wrong doers. So let me have my time, to be a better person. Please do not ask for punishment. do not seek to hasten it.