Orthodox Jewish teens attacked in Australia

Zulkiflim said:
Salaam,

Yes ia gree that the law must the decisive factor,but when the law sides with one side due to race/religion then the law is not for all.
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What? Laws prohibiting violence in Australia do not discriminate on grounds of race or religion.

I just wish to point out that once in South Africa the LAW was that no blacks can enter a white premises...is it right?
No..
Is it lawful..yes..

But does that mean that the blacks in south africa need not fight for their right...casue then they would break the law?
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What does that have to do with punishing people who go and beat up innocent teenagers for no good reason? The apartheid laws were unjust and immoral. A law punishing people for attacking other people in a racist haze is not unjust or immoral.

It is the same,here we condemn the harm done to 2 civillians,but where is the condemnation and punishment due to the aggresors in palesitne or lebanon or any where else?
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There's plenty of condemnation. There's no 'punishment' because that's the way the world works. Certain nations can go to war with each other, killing thousands of civilians on either side in the process, but the only ones who are punished in war are the losers, even if the victors are truly guilty as well.

that is why if trully the world is ruled BY LAW,we would have no such human reaction..
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That's life. There's no excuse for such violence.

rav said:
I guess that shows Islams or at least this Muslims true thought process.
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It's the latter.
 
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rav said:
Right, so after a suicide bombing kids a bus full of kids should I go beat some Muslims?

Your logic makes no sense, and it reveals a disgusting thought process.
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Maybe you should re-read his post.

He did not say it was justified, he said it was EXPECTED. Huge difference.

You might have missed these parts:

these jewish children did not deserve the beating
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So i wuld say,anger is and will spill over,is it right..no..
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Muezzin said:
What? Laws prohibiting violence in Australia do not discriminate on grounds of race or religion.


What does that have to do with punishing people who go and beat up innocent teenagers for no good reason? The apartheid laws were unjust and immoral. A law punishing people for attacking other people in a racist haze is not unjust or immoral.


There's plenty of condemnation. There's no 'punishment' because that's the way the world works. Certain nations can go to war with each other, killing thousands of civilians on either side in the process, but the only ones who are punished in war are the losers, even if the victors are truly guilty as well.


That's life. There's no excuse for such violence.


It's the latter.
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Salaam,

as always laws there are the literal law and the spirit of the law,upon which it is upon the judge to decide. or a jury,,thus it becomes a human affair plagued with self motivation.

I just highlighted the south african laws,and we both agree that it was immoral,,but it was the LAW..as set by mena dn judged by men..
Was it right for all races?..NO
And there are now laws that prevent justice from being carried out espeially if you are an US citizen or an Isreali,,is it right?

How then is justice enforced?.



And becasue of such thining where one coutnry can do ill while antoher cannot even when the circumstances are the same,it thus renders to the human factor.
Judgement..based on human decision not by Justice.

If we trully have a world based on justice,we would see the wrongdoers of any skin or reliogn or natinalities punished.

But we dont see that now,and that lead to many to take the laws into their own hands.

Laws are made by men and can be broken by men.

Hopefully in time we will all realise that there ar eno boundaries and one law is applicable to all of mankind.
 
rav said:
Right, so after a suicide bombing kids a bus full of kids should I go beat some Muslims?

Your logic makes no sense, and it reveals a disgusting thought process.



I guess that shows Islams or at least this Muslims true thought process.
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Salaam,

May i ask what did the Isrealis goverment do after every sucide bombing,attack kill and oppreseed those who have no link to the action.
The Isreal goverment rationale was that the entire population was wrong..

Houses are demolished and children a re murdered..

what did the palesitnian do...revenge.

was it wrong.
in what way is it right for Isrelais to exact revenge but wrong for Palestinian to do like wise?

Do you say that a isrelais know love but a palesitnian would not feel the loss of their loved ones?

Hyprocrisy..

It extend to all jew worldwide,by race they are a target ,,they may be innocent,but so are every muslim,,but did that thinking stop the rampage of isrealis from murering palestianin with wmd?
 
It extend to all jew worldwide,by race they are a target ,,they may be innocent,but so are every muslim,,but did that thinking stop the rampage of isrealis from murering palestianin with wmd?
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Right, you claim every single person every Muslim and Palestinian is innocent. All of them. :rollseyes

The Jews had plenty of sympathy for Arabs until your extremists began blowing up our buses and pre-schools. And starting riots 30 years before the creation of Israel!!!!

Or maybe because of the old Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, ever heard of him?

Hint: Mohammad Amin al-Husayni
 
The Jews had plenty of sympathy for Arabs until your extremists began blowing up our buses and pre-schools.
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Isn't this an example of the same thought process you just condemned?
I mean, with this kind of reasoning a Muslim could say: Muslims had plenty of sympathy for Jews until your extremists occupied Arab land and began opening fire in mosques?

Or maybe because of the old Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel, ever heard of him? Hint: It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and ****able
The Lord shall return the Arabs' deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world. His quotes.
 
Abu Zakariya said:
Isn't this an example of the same thought process you just condemned?
I mean, with this kind of reasoning a Muslim could say: Muslims had plenty of sympathy for Jews until your extremists occupied Arab land and began opening fire in mosques?
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No, because we are talking about sympathy. The Jews in general had a lot of sympathy for the Muslims, but when attacks began against Jews, the Jewish world in general began stanidn up less for Muslims and became more wary on relations because a huge conflict was arising, regardless of the origins.

Or maybe because of the old Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel, ever heard of him? Hint: It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and ****able
The Lord shall return the Arabs' deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world. His quotes.
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Really? Can you provide a link? I wonder where you are getting this from, since there have been so many made up quotes that Jewish leaders have nver said and have been used as propaganda.
 
No, because we are talking about sympathy. The Jews in general had a lot of sympathy for the Muslims, but when attacks began against Jews, the Jewish world in general began stanidn up less for Muslims and became more wary on relations because a huge conflict was arising, regardless of the origins.
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My point was that Muslims could say the same. Both sides could argue "if it werent for this or that you did to us, we would have more sympathy for you"

Really? Can you provide a link? I wonder where you are getting this from, since there have been so many made up quotes that Jewish leaders have nver said and have been used as propaganda.
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This isn't made up. It's from a BBC News article: Rabbi calls for annihilation of Arabs
 
From the link:
And he added: "I suggest that we not learn from the ways of the Palestinians and speak in verbal blows like these."

Of course his speech is completly disusting and does not represent the majority or even a sizable minorities view on the situation.

It is also written elsewhere: However his second comment was in fact a slightly modified quote from Obadiah 1:18, referring to the descendants of Esau. A Shas spokesman defended Rabbi Yosef, saying the speech had been in reference to "Arab murderers and terrorists", not all Arabs, and that the Rabbi had been saying that the state of Israel should pursue its enemies mercilessly, as G-d had commanded the ancient Israelites to fight against their own adversaries.

I think the guy is crazy to tell you the truth, and he certainly needs to shut up, but let me tell you, he always tells people to stick to "Verbal Blows" one of his main singature phrases.

But then again, he is still crazy:

He has said things about the Holocaust and why it happend that have outraged millions including me.

In other words: He is nuts, but would never encourage anyone to beat up a few kids because of a terrorist attack, but certainly has rage problems in his sermons.

But then again, I have been in a mosque before, and felt scared because I thought people may find out I was Jewish after the sermon.

The crazist thing is he is an Iraqi Jew, whose family fled after riots against the Jews there, I have heard.
 
IzakHalevas

Again, my point was that if a Jew says "the Grand Mufti said this" a Muslim could point out "the Chief Rabbi said that". So, it's pointless to go back and forth like this.
 
Abu Zakariya said:
IzakHalevas

Again, my point was that if a Jew says "the Grand Mufti said this" a Muslim could point out "the Chief Rabbi said that". So, it's pointless to go back and forth like this.
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Well the Grand Mufti he was refering to actually visited Berlin often, had his picture taken with Hitler, and recuited young Muslims to join the SS (Nazi secret police, that some units were involved in the genocide of the Holocaust.) I am not sure if any of those units were the Muslim ones however, I doubt it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Himmler_to_Mufti_telegram_1943.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AlHusayniHitler.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Grossmufti-inspecting-ss-recruits.jpg

A bit different then just words, but there is no point in bringing up a senseless debate, which will only lead to more fighting that I really do not want to get involved in.
 
Tayyaba said:
Why do ppl use wikipedia is their truthful source? Some are and some are not.
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Those are pictures of the Grand Mufti and Hitler, Grand Mufti and SS, and a letter by Nazi to Grand Mufti. They are posted on wikipedia but were taken and developed years before wikipedia or the internet for that matter came into existance.

How are they untruthful?
 
IzakHalevas

I'm familiar with al-Husayni. Since you brought all of that up, it seems that you missed the point. You can mention what this guy did, which was supporting Nazis that wanted to annihilate Jews, and we can on the other hand point out that the Chief Rabbi called for the annihilation of Arabs. Both, it can be claimed, wanted the other side to be annihilated. Now, you point out that some have argued that the Rabbi only meant some Arabs, but al-Husayni has also said that he was only against some Jews (the Jews of Palestine). I don't think that what either of these two men said should be defended. But again, the point is to show you how both sides can point the finger at the other. You can point to the fact that there have been suicide bombings where innocent Jews have been slaughtered, and we can on the other hand point to the shooting in the mosque in Palestine where innocent Muslims were slaughtered. That's why I objected to rav's earlier post.
 
Abu Zakariya said:
IzakHalevas

I'm familiar with al-Husayni. Since you brought all of that up, it seems that you missed the point. You can mention what this guy did, which was supporting Nazis that wanted to annihilate Jews, and we can on the other hand point out that the Chief Rabbi called for the annihilation of Arabs. Both, it can be claimed, wanted the other side to be annihilated. Now, you point out that some have argued that the Rabbi only meant some Arabs, but al-Husayni has also said that he was only against some Jews (the Jews of Palestine). I don't think that what either of these two men said should be defended. But again, the point is to show you how both sides can point the finger at the other. You can point to the fact that there have been suicide bombings where innocent Jews have been slaughtered, and we can on the other hand point to the shooting in the mosque in Palestine where innocent Muslims were slaughtered. That's why I objected to rav's earlier post.
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Good point. I clearly stated that I think that Rabbi is a nut, as many Jews do.
 

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