Overpopulation makes me worry

[sister herb]

Sometimes I am wondering whether we really have sufficient thrust in our Rabb? There are problems, but nature has nothing to do with it. Allah is almighty and he's able to feed 10^∞ people! Again: it's not nature it's us!

I partly agree with this. If we humans would treat the nature well, protect it from the waste what too crowded cities product, find new ways to grow our foods, stop wasting the natural resources, accept the lower standards of living and economic growth etc etc. we could provide good living conditions to our children world wide. Unfortunately we don´t do so.

We are wasting resources, pollute the environment, spoil the oceans, we kill animals to extinction, pollute the air, we use non-renewable resources, and we believe that we can continue in the same way forever. In addition, we are growing exponentially and every new generation will consumes the environment more than the previous.

We are like a bad farmer who mismanages his crops.

 

[greenhill]

If we humans would treat the nature well, protect it from the waste what too crowded cities product, find new ways to grow our foods, stop wasting the natural resources, accept the lower standards of living and economic growth etc etc. we could provide good living conditions to our children world wide. Unfortunately we don´t do so.

so you have no argument to make

The argument is quite clear, I thought...

It is not the fact that we cannot produce enough to feed (but then again Allah determines this as He says how He turns barren lands into 'life' again) it is the sheer wastefulness of human beings and I'd like to add politics too that interferes in the free flow of produce to where it is needed, via embargoes, trade actions etc.

Ultimately, as sister verb says, we could feed the increased world population IF we got our act together. But that is a different story altogether. I could witness a man starving to death next to me and I am eating my fill, totally ignoring him... in fact I didn't even finish my meal and left it there to go to waste when I could have shared my meal with him... this is the state of the world today, where what I earn is my right and the fact that my neighbor cannot earn is his bad luck, nothing to do with me.

What I am trying to say here is the fact that there is enough to go around, but people make it such that not everyone will get what they need. Is that a 'real' natural limitation or man made barrier?

eace:

 

[ardianto]

Futuwwa is in denial of organisations such as Monsanto and has no faith that Allah is the provider and sustainer of all creation, thus he wrongfully believes that Allah has built a faulty model of earth which cannot contain its inhabitants..

If you do an effort to get sustenance, In Shaa Allah, then Allah will give you easiness to get sustenance. But before you reached the age when you are able to seek an income, your father must fulfill your needs, didn't he?. Now imagine if a father must feed 20 kids. He would get headache, bro!.

Indeed, if someone get married and then has child, Allah will gives him easiness to get sustenance if he does an effort. But it doesn't mean if he has 20 kids then he get easiness 20 times than a man who has only one kid. Notice the big families in slum area. Does have much kids makes them richer than people with few kids?.

So it's better if you try to use your mind to understand what "Allah is the provider and sustainer of all creation" means. Not just swallow what people say without you understand the wisdom behind it.

About earth. Allah has built earth that can accommodate its inhabitants. But its inhabitants is not only human, but also animals and plants. If population of human is too much, then human will occupy the area which actually provided for animals and plants. Yeah, bro, how many forests that have been disappeared, how many animals that have been extinct because human?.

 

[M.I.A.]

The argument is quite clear, I thought...

It is not the fact that we cannot produce enough to feed (but then again Allah determines this as He says how He turns barren lands into 'life' again) it is the sheer wastefulness of human beings and I'd like to add politics too that interferes in the free flow of produce to where it is needed, via embargoes, trade actions etc.

Ultimately, as sister verb says, we could feed the increased world population IF we got our act together. But that is a different story altogether. I could witness a man starving to death next to me and I am eating my fill, totally ignoring him... in fact I didn't even finish my meal and left it there to go to waste when I could have shared my meal with him... this is the state of the world today, where what I earn is my right and the fact that my neighbor cannot earn is his bad luck, nothing to do with me.

What I am trying to say here is the fact that there is enough to go around, but people make it such that not everyone will get what they need. Is that a 'real' natural limitation or man made barrier?

eace:

Its god given.

..its like helping the homeless.

Its OK when you go to them.

...but its very different when they come to you.

Its like people have a habit of shooting themselves in there own foot.

...here have my foot.

I already paid zakat! ..plz don't take my lunch money.

Charity collectors are like busses.. You wait for ages and then three turn up one after the other.

I am apparently rich..

And should check my entitlement.

...and probably getting a slap for back biting lol.

I don't get it.

But we are all things to all people, don't get typecast and you should be OK..

I do agree though its all about helping people and getting them through the hard times.

...its extremely hard not to a knowledge our own imperfections when we have incompetent staff

:/

All we can do is try, Allah swt's will is always done.

He is the protector, the planner, the sustainer, the provider and so much more.

 

[colinberry1]

Well I don't think you need to worry about that, our rulers will soon sort it out when they have finished with us. I don't think we have much say in the matter, but of course we can go on kidding ourselves that what we do really matters.

 

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum,

(smile) I have been enjoying reading your posts. (laugh) I liked some of MIA's witty comments!

Overall, though, I really question whether overpopulation is THE problem. Certainly, we can put pressure on the world around us. And Allah Commands us to be caretakers, not callous gluttons.

But I find it interesting that there is so much emphasis put on overpopulation, when the majority of the harm done to this planet is by the populations that have low birth rates. I have heard that 20% of the world's population is consuming 80% of the resources… This 20% tends to have few children. But in order to offset it's use of resources, this minority insists that the 20% that is left for others should be less used up… by the poorer people having less children.

Surely the emphasis should be on the wealthier people being less greedy?

May Allah, the Designer, Help us to understand how we need to live, in order to better live in harmony with His Will.

 

[Scimitar]

If you do an effort to get sustenance, In Shaa Allah, then Allah will give you easiness to get sustenance. But before you reached the age when you are able to seek an income, your father must fulfill your needs, didn't he?. Now imagine if a father must feed 20 kids. He would get headache, bro!.

No... Allah provides, and even if money is little - barakah is increased in the little given... so again, you'd need to correct your understanding bro.

Would you advocate for the propagations in the Georgia Guidestones? Judging by your logic, you would prefer if human populations remained below half a billion on the planet: Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature - Georgia Guidestone

How do you respond?

Scimi

 

[Scimitar]

Did not the Prophet pbuh say “Get married and multiply (have children), because I will be proud of you, in front of other nations on the Day of Judgment.”

so you can have one child families? uh, no... "multiply" so he can be proud of the number of Muslims over the other nations on the day of judgement... why go against what the Prophet pbuh told you???? Why try to justify your world view without the Quran and Sunnah? what are you hoping to achieve? Atheism? seriously though... you gotta have faith in Allah as the provider, Ar RAZZAQ !!!

---

Scimi

 

[Scimitar]

thread title "OVER POPULATION MAKES ME WORRY"

I tell you, seriously, it is none of your concern - this concern is Allah's alone and HE is well in control of it.

Have faith in Allah.

Scimi

 

[sister herb]

But I find it interesting that there is so much emphasis put on overpopulation, when the majority of the harm done to this planet is by the populations that have low birth rates. I have heard that 20% of the world's population is consuming 80% of the resources… This 20% tends to have few children. But in order to offset it's use of resources, this minority insists that the 20% that is left for others should be less used up… by the poorer people having less children.

As you know, those less rich people whose are living in poorer countries have many kids because they need to be sure that they have someone to take care about them when they become old and can´t work for their living any more. In the rich countries, the state take care about this like by the social security system or by the retirement pensions.

About if woman would have 20 kids; I just read some studies from the news yesterday that its better for the woman´s health and as well also for the babies health if she can have 3 or 4 years between her babies. The fertile time of the woman´s life is too short for this and for having 20 kids.

 

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum,

(smile) Mmm…we tend to make assumptions as to why people do and do not have children. I feel that lumping people together and trying to industrially "manage" populations is neither just nor effective. In my experience, each individual and family makes the decisions to have children (or not) based on their particular (and legitimate) needs and circumstances.

Personal desires, wars, economic circumstances, social mores, status… there are many influences on a woman of reproductive potential. I think it wiser to stop making assumptions about what "poor women" want or do (or "rich women" or "oppressed women", or however else we try to clump people together into manipulable variables). And then holding such women accountable for the ills of the world.

I think we need to look more at our own selves, and whether we are making Islamic choices (Islamic being what is in accord with His Will).

I think we also need to examine the way that corporate entities are running our world, and how we can regain control of our lives. Corporations, I believe, are a sort of Frankenstein's monster. They behave like intelligent living organisms with no moral framework except to make money and thrive. They have no empathy or remorse. They just don't care about anyone or anything. In essence they behave like the cinical definition of a psychopath.

The people who work for corporations can be caring and responsible. But they are bound by the rules of the corporation. And the corporations run according to the rules that we have set up as societies. I believe we need to look at those rules, and modify them, to tame the monsters that now rule us. This will be very hard to do, because the corporations will fight such changes every step of the way, and they are very powerful entities.

Therefore, rather than blame poor women for having too many children (or "poverty", or Muslims, or lack of a corporate education, or all the other scapegoats for the problems in our world), I believe that what would be most fruitful would be our coming together and figuring out how we can make our corporate structures less rapacious, and build in some accountability and humanity in the way we make commercial transactions.

May Allah, the Giver of Life and the Destroyer, Strengthen us in our efforts.

 

[ardianto]

No... Allah provides, and even if money is little - barakah is increased in the little given... so again, you'd need to correct your understanding bro.

Allah will give sustenance for anyone who do an effort to seek it. But children are too young to work to seek sustenance. If you have had children then you will realize that it's better if you have just few children than have many children. Also population growth that too fast will cause difficulty for human in keeping the nature remain stable.

Would you advocate for the propagations in the Georgia Guidestones? Judging by your logic, you would prefer if human populations remained below half a billion on the planet: Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature - Georgia Guidestone

How do you respond?

Scimi

I do not advocate to reduce population through mass killing. I just want human aware that nature is not only for human, but also for plants and animal.


Bay the way. Out of topic. I am sorry if I am late in respond your post. I am so busy and so tired in last two days. So I lost my mood to write a post. But I will take vacation for three days to visit my aunt in a city where I ever lived there in my childhood. It's mean I will absent from forum for a while.

 

[Signor]

Bay the way. Out of topic. I am sorry if I am late in respond your post. I am so busy and so tired in last two days. So I lost my mood to write a post. But I will take vacation for three days to visit my aunt in a city where I ever lived there in my childhood. It's mean I will absent from forum for a while.

Have a safe journey bro!Fee Aman Allah.

 

[Scimitar]

Allah will give sustenance for anyone who do an effort to seek it. But children are too young to work to seek sustenance. If you have had children then you will realize that it's better if you have just few children than have many children. Also population growth that too fast will cause difficulty for human in keeping the nature remain stable.

“And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We shall provide for them as well as for you.” [Surah al Israa’: 31]

Have a safe journey.

Scimi

 

[Futuwwa]

You see no difference between killing your children and not having them in the first place?

 

[greenhill]

I think we are assuming that we will be granted that many children. It is natural but not a 'right'. I don't believe that even if the whole world's married population tried to have 20 children (I only pick that number because since Scimi mentioned it, it shocked people enough to start this debate) too few will achieve it. I reckon between 5 and 7 will be common..

And there will be plenty that can't have any..

eace:

 

[Signor]

“And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We shall provide for them as well as for you.” [Surah al Israa’: 31]

Have a safe journey.

This shows one more thing,We(me and you) don't see eye to eye with Br Ardianto in this matter.However,We can agree on his kind heartedness and caring nature.

You know,I often wonders If Br Ardianto's real life incidents are so many,what would have happened to the bed time stories for his boys?^o)

As for number of children,I will go with Sis MI's opinion.

In my experience, each individual and family makes the decisions to have children (or not) based on their particular (and legitimate) needs and circumstances.

 

[greenhill]

In all honesty, the quote in Al Israa:31 is to do with the fundamental faith we should have in Allah as the Provider. It should be like that of Mary when she was given foods out of season in her room.

However, living in this material world has limited our 'absolute' faith in receiving the bounties of Allah.

I have a natural instinct to take care of myself and family and I just cannot leave it to Allah to provide (although it is Him that provides and takes away) but I somehow or other I just can't.

So, it becomes more like me believing what Allah says, but I'm not about to put it to a test.

eace:

 

[Signor]

So, it becomes more like me believing what Allah says, but I'm not about to put it to a test.

Yes bro,We have to tie our camel first.

Anas ibn Malik reported: A man said, “O Messenger of Allah, should I tie my camel and trust in Allah, or should I untie her and trust in Allah?” The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Tie her and trust in Allah.”

Source: Sunan At-Tirmidhi 2517
Grade: Hasan (fair) according to Al-Albani

 

[ardianto]

“And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We shall provide for them as well as for you.” [Surah al Israa’: 31]

I am really against abortion without valid reason. And of course I am against killing of baby. That ayah refer to wrong habit among people in the past which they killed newborn babies which considered as not beneficial for the parents. That ayah still relevant for abortion that happen nowadays. But actually that ayah has nothing to do with family planning because family planning actually forbid abortion.

Since I was young and unmarried I already dreamed about small family because I was sure that I could raise my children better if I had only few children. My late wife wanted to have only few children too although she had seven siblings.

If I wanted to have only few children, it's not because I was afraid of becoming poor, but because if I had only few children then I could give better attention to my children.

Have a safe journey.

Scimi

Jazak Allah Khayr, and Alhamdulillah, I am at home now.