Pakistan approves sharia law in Swat valley

[Woodrow]

finally,
now saying you can have shariah in the US is not really true, what you can have is some aspects of family law in the shariah, but you cant have the whole package.

in just the same way as those who say you can practice islam in the west are not truthful as you cannot perform many acts which are fard nor can you avoid all the matters which are haram.

Not as far fetched as it sounds for the possibility of Shariah being a reality in some parts of the US. Fiji, The Philipines, Puerto Rico, American Samoa are all parts of the USA and have very different laws then any States. Even within the contiguous lower 48 states there are differences. the Biggest difference being the State of Louisiana which is under Napolianic law.

Plus the Amish and Mennonite communities are under religious law that forbids nearly everything that shariah forbids.

You also have the native American Reservations, (SEVERAL HUNDRED) which are governed under tribal, not US law.

These are not small communities, they rival some European Nations in Area. The Largest Native American Reservation is the Navajo Nation and it is over 27,000 squre miles. Some of the Amish Communities also are the size of some nations. Many Amish communities have populations of over 100,000 people and the Amish are governed under religious, not secular law. We do disagree with the Amish religious practices, but if the Amish have the right to live under Amish religious law we have the right to live under shariah, if a community chooses to do so.

I can not think of any fard act that would not be permitted in the USA, within an Islamic community.

Dearborn, Michigan, which is the self proclaimed Islamic Capital of the USA is very close to being under full Sharia law and I expect it will be within my lifetime.

 

[Thinker]

thanks for your kind thoughts, well im still in need of about 9k sterling travel and settling money, so have a wip round and tell them its a sure way of getting rid on an islamic radical from the uk.

Can I know what is the total amount you hope to raise before you leave?

 

[Dawud_uk]

I can not think of any fard act that would not be permitted in the USA, within an Islamic community.

going in the path of Allah, which according to the overwhelming consensus of the ulema is fard, supporting them with your wealth if possible, subhanallah it is getting to the point where even if you make du'a then that can be taken as encouraging terrorism and so lead to a hefty prison sentence, remember the main evidence against sheikh ali at tamimi was a video of him making du'a for the success of the taliban.

any by-law you bring in, on a state or local level can be declared illegal by men in washington, as such the laws are beholden to man not to Allah.

i know we can bring in aspects of shariah, but the whole thing, certainly not, they would never allow it.

akhi, i know you are well intentioned and we all try our best but it is not even halal to stop in darul kufr when they are at war with the muslims.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Can I know what is the total amount you hope to raise before you leave?

I think Dawud said earlier that he was 10% of the way there, so that would make the total figure £10,000.

Peace

 

[Dawud_uk]

Can I know what is the total amount you hope to raise before you leave?

about £10k, but it depends where we go really. but with about £10k i can travel there, hire a flat, look for work and also bring my family over.

 

[Dawud_uk]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/04/2009418113738662194.html

 

[Thinker]

thanks for your kind thoughts, well im still in need of about 9k sterling travel and settling money, so have a wip round and tell them its a sure way of getting rid on an islamic radical from the uk.

I believe your target is 10K meaning you've managed to save a measly 1K. You started your blog six months ago, so lets guess that you started your hijrah plan at least six month earlier, that means it's taken you a year to save 1K and at that rate it'll take another 9 years to reach your target - can I know if you have a regular salary paying job or are you on state benefits?

 

[Whatsthepoint]

I believe your target is 10K meaning you've managed to save a measly 1K. You started your blog six months ago, so lets guess that you started your hijrah plan at least six month earlier, that means it's taken you a year to save 1K and at that rate it'll take another 9 years to reach your target - can I know if you have a regular salary paying job or are you on state benefits?

The blog says he's ben thinking about it for years...

 

[Woodrow]

going in the path of Allah, which according to the overwhelming consensus of the ulema is fard, supporting them with your wealth if possible, subhanallah it is getting to the point where even if you make du'a then that can be taken as encouraging terrorism and so lead to a hefty prison sentence, remember the main evidence against sheikh ali at tamimi was a video of him making du'a for the success of the taliban.

I am reading up on him. It does appear there was an injustice here. I am having difficulty in finding what he was specifically found guilty of.

any by-law you bring in, on a state or local level can be declared illegal by men in washington, as such the laws are beholden to man not to Allah.

Not as easily done as that sounds. Most of the States place too high of a value upon State's rights. While on a federal level there is much opposistion to the Death Penalty for any reason, the Feds have not yet been able to get Texas to abolish it, and Texas does use it quite freely.

i know we can bring in aspects of shariah, but the whole thing, certainly not, they would never allow it.

I wonder about that. The feds don't seem to be very happy over the Amish refusing to pay US taxes, but so far they have been unable to enforce any laws that would prosecute them. Like wise the people on the Rez can be quite anti-US government. Quite evident on Pine Ridge, where the people are all but at armed war with the federal Government and the most recent armed conflict between the feds occurred as recently as February 27, 1973. Americans for the most part are very much opposed to Federal Intervention in local matters.

i know you are well intentioned and we all try our best but it is not even halal to stop in darul kufr when they are at war with the muslims.

but the reality is for most of us born in darul kufr there is little option. It is not always possible to leave where you live. Not only financial and health limitations but other problems also. I can not even visit Pakistan, the Pakistan Embassy refuses to let me into the country, because my old passports show I once visited India, and Israel That was several years ago.( I should mention that was long before I reverted to Islam) when my health was good and I had no major health issues. My son-in-law wanted me to move to Karachi and run his Business there for him. I was not allowed into Pakistan. Today the issues are primarily health and finances.

 

[Dawud_uk]

I am reading up on him. It does appear there was an injustice here. I am having difficulty in finding what he was specifically found guilty of.




Not as easily done as that sounds. Most of the States place too high of a value upon State's rights. While on a federal level there is much opposistion to the Death Penalty for any reason, the Feds have not yet been able to get Texas to abolish it, and Texas does use it quite freely.



I wonder about that. The feds don't seem to be very happy over the Amish refusing to pay US taxes, but so far they have been unable to enforce any laws that would prosecute them. Like wise the people on the Rez can be quite anti-US government. Quite evident on Pine Ridge, where the people are all but at armed war with the federal Government and the most recent armed conflict between the feds occurred as recently as February 27, 1973. Americans for the most part are very much opposed to Federal Intervention in local matters.



but the reality is for most of us born in darul kufr there is little option. It is not always possible to leave where you live. Not only financial and health limitations but other problems also. I can not even visit Pakistan, the Pakistan Embassy refuses to let me into the country, because my old passports show I once visited India, and Israel That was several years ago.( I should mention that was long before I reverted to Islam) when my health was good and I had no major health issues. My son-in-law wanted me to move to Karachi and run his Business there for him. I was not allowed into Pakistan. Today the issues are primarily health and finances.

Lo! as for those whom the angels take (in death) while they wrong themselves, (the angels) will ask: In what were ye engaged? They will say: We were oppressed in the land. (The angels) will say: Was not Allah's earth spacious that ye could have migrated therein? As for such, their habitation will be hell, an evil journey's end;
Except the feeble among men, and the women, and the children, who are unable to devise a plan and are not shown a way.
As for such, it may be that Allah will pardon them. Allah is ever Clement, Forgiving.
Surah an-nisa, verses 97-99

the order is clear to make hijrah out of here, but after that it becomes much more messy and complicated as you rightly point out, not everyone can do it and Allah has spoken of that also.

still the intention should be there.

regarding your problems of visiting, i would have thought being married to a pakistani you would know how this works. basically you need to find someone of influence and then get them to lean on the pakistani authorities for you, that is was before you embraced islam etc etc.

i also get what you are saying regarding shariah in the US, but remember shariah is not just the huddud, the penal code, or the social aspects but includes everything including a economic and state system.

would the US allow a state that not only refused to pay taxes but had its own foreign policy right up to sending money and mujahideen to fight US troops in afghanistan? that enforced the huddud on muslim and kaffir? that abolished the dollar and went back to the gold standard in currency?

 

[Woodrow]

regarding your problems of visiting, i would have thought being married to a pakistani you would know how this works. basically you need to find someone of influence and then get them to lean on the pakistani authorities for you, that is was before you embraced islam etc etc.

It is my youngest Daughter who is married to a Pakistani. My wife is Native American ( Cheyenne tribe) My daughter has no problems going to and from Pakistan, neither do my grandchildren I am the one with the problems. In the past, before I reverted it was legal issues. Pakistan has very strong restrictions on American Citizens going to Pakistan and even more if they intend to establish residency. The cost is prohibitive for most Americans to even think of trying for Pakistan citizenship.

From the Pakistan Embassy here:

"Any person of a country recognised by Pakistan may obtain Pakistani Citizenship by investing a minimum of US$ 0.75 million in tangible assets and $ 0.25 million (or equivalent in major foreign currency) in cash on a non-repatriable basis and by fulfilling the conditions of the Pakistan Citizenship Law. Investment on a non-repatriable basis means that the amount is brought to Pakistan through normal banking channels, converted into rupees, and never remitted back through the free market."

But in any event it is now a moot point. My health and age pretty well have removed my ability to travel out of the country. I even have trouble getting into Canada and the closest city to me is in Canada. I guess most countries see us old disabled folks as a potential burden on their Health Care system I am ineligible for any health care insurance as pre-existing conditions are not covered, my health care is 100% Veterans Administration as I am considered to be 100% disabled and service connected injuries. I am ineligible for any health care except for Military related.

 

[Erundur]

Or a mass exodus from the Swat moving to the west?

I highly doubt it, the Taliban itself is one ethnic tribe anyways, if anything it would be family vs. family.

But if there is a wave of people leaving leaving, I don't believe London can handle all of them.

 

[GreyKode]

I highly doubt it, the Taliban itself is one ethnic tribe anyways, if anything it would be family vs. family.

But if there is a wave of people leaving leaving, I don't believe London can handle all of them.

You mean muslims leaving london.

 

[Erundur]

You mean muslims leaving london.

like I originally said in my first post, with the creation of Sharia Law in the SWAT valley, are many muslims mainly pakistanis are going to go back to pakistan under the Islamic rule of the Taliban?

if so...kudos

I would like it if any member from LI went back or someone who posts from the swat valley can tell us the situation that's currently happening.

 

[Cern]

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/22/pakistan.taliban/index.html

Well this is interesting. Looks like the Taliban are at it again. As we know the Pakistan government backed down and allowed Islamic law in Swat. The Taliban decide that isn't good enough and use violence once again to take control of another district in the area. With this new advance they are breaking their own peace deal with the government.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/22/pakistan.qa/index.html

Consequences are severe; during the Taliban struggle to impose sharia law, anyone found disobeying was pinned to the ground and lashed. Others were beheaded and hung from poles, with notices attached to their bodies that anyone daring to remove the corpse before 48 hours had passed would also be beheaded and hanged.

Why would anyone think this is good or would want to go purposely live there?

 

[Dawud_uk]

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/22/pakistan.taliban/index.html

Well this is interesting. Looks like the Taliban are at it again. As we know the Pakistan government backed down and allowed Islamic law in Swat. The Taliban decide that isn't good enough and use violence once again to take control of another district in the area. With this new advance they are breaking their own peace deal with the government.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/22/pakistan.qa/index.html



Why would anyone think this is good or would want to go purposely live there?

perhaps you should watch the al-jazeera report i posted the link for also?

also, isnt the west using violence against people because they disagree with the system of laws they want them to use?

 

[Cern]

perhaps you should watch the al-jazeera report i posted the link for also?

I must have missed that. Could you please repost the link?

also, isnt the west using violence against people because they disagree with the system of laws they want them to use?

You need to clarify that statement.

With Afghanistan I would say no. We removed the Taliban that oppressed people and harbored terrorists and allowed the government to return. For me the war, replacement of power and response to a terrorist attack upon my country that also effected many other countries was just. If we were to go back into the area and replace the current government then I would agree with you.

With Iraq the answer is yes and no. For me this war should have never happened without the backing of the world (UN). I felt the war was not just and was part of my ex-presidents personal agenda. But Saddam was a cruel dictator that oppressed, tortured and killed anyone that stood in his way. Because of this Saddam and his government should have been replaced. How and when will always be something that shall be debated.

The Taliban are not freedom fighters. They are terrorists that will oppress, torture and kill anyone that stand in their way. Do I think all countries should be democratic? No, but there are ways to handle things and the way they conduct business makes them no authority to impose any form of law, Islamic or not.

 

[Cern]

I traced back and I found your link.

There is nothing in that report that doesn't surprise me. You have a controversial news agency going into an area controlled by the Taliban and reporting about them. Do you honestly think they or even local residents will speak bad about them when they are toting guns and wearing masks? I am sure the locals will support any form of law when no law is present. I am sure the locals want Shariah law. But I doubt the locals will enjoy what will be imposed upon them once the Taliban settle in and impose their form of Shariah law.

 

[Cern]

I decided to check out the Aljazeera site and see what news story was written about your video. I came across this news post that seems to contradict their own video news broadcast.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/04/200942217162264694.html

Taliban advance

Earlier, Pakistani officials said that Taliban fighters in Swat had moved into a neighbouring district in what appeared to be a move to expand the region of its control, despite the Swat peace deal.

Hundreds of armed Taliban entered Buner district, only 110km from Islamabad, setting up checkpoints, occupying mosques and ransacking the offices of non-governmental organisations, a local official said.

"The Taliban who have arrived from Swat have increased patrolling, banned music in public transport and rampaged [through] the offices of NGOs and taken their vehicles," Rashid Khan, a government official, said.

A Taliban commander said that they would set up sharia courts in Buner - as they have done in Swat - to end a "sense of deprivation", but would not interfere with police work.

"We will soon establish our radio station. Our Qazis [Islamic judges] will also start holding courts in Buner soon," Mohammad Khalil, a Taliban commander, said.

Muslim Khan, a spokesman for the Pakistani Taliban, speaking from Swat, denied that the government was being challenged in Buner saying that the Taliban was not creating "any hurdle in the administration's work".

Residents 'scared'

But several residents said they felt "scared" and planned to leave the Buner area, fearing similar violence to that in Swat.

The development is likely to trigger further criticism of the government's agreement with fighters in Swat.

In its deal with the Taliban, the government allowed sharia courts in Malakand, a district of about three million people in North West Frontier Province that includes the Swat valley, in order to halt the unrest.

But the Taliban has yet to disarm and its fighters appear to be trying to expand their control.

Meanwhile, in neighbouring Dir district, a senior administration official was kidnapped by "unknown" people, according to another official.

 

[AbuSalahudeen]

A lot of people will suffer pain and many will die, the lives of many will become a misery and It'll all end in tears. And, the impact will be felt not just by those in the Swat valley and not just by those in the rest of Pakistan but by all Pakistanis all over the world because whether you like it or not and no matter how hard you shout about not being judged by the actions of a few fanatics, and no matter how unjust to you that might be, you will be so judged by their actions by the rest of the world.

Sorry but these are just assumptions, Shariah is beautiful if implemented correctly according to the authenic text of Islam. Many a time Shariah is confused with bad cultural practises like force marriages, honour killings (murderings) and the list goes on. If you want to see real tears, 100s of thousands of deaths and total misery look at those in Iraq who have tasted the Democracy the American Government has brought, and ask the Palestian people what happened when Democratic elections took place and the Government voted in by them cost them the blood of 1000's of innocent country men and women.