Pakistan

[wilberhum]

Re: Lal Masjid Facts

So you condone the massacre of innocents by the army? tell me what is difference between hitler's army and these armie's of today that kill their own civilians? i personally don't see any.

The people are enraged. Their loved ones died unjustly and they will fight back. That is the difference between americans and these people. They will not let their gov't become a military state and loose all their freedom. When the gov't no longer serves the needs of the people (but of other nations) and the people are threatened rather then protected by this gov't and it's army, then a regime change comes. History is a witness to that fact.

So you condone the massacre of innocents by the army?

Straw man argument. Not supporting vigilante justice in not condoning a massacre.

tell me what is difference between hitler's army and these armie's of today that kill their own civilians?

Hitler set war on the world. The Pakistani Army stopped some people who took the law into where own hands.

i personally don't see any.

Your emotions have blinded you.

The people are enraged.

True. And some are running around killing people that had nothing to do with it.

Their loved ones died unjustly and they will fight back.

They didn’t have to die. That was a choice they made.

You want the government over thrown. Well I don’t have much good to say about Musharraf. But I don’t think a new government will be better, then that is only a personal opinion.

But you have to loose all common sense to think armed gangs imposing there laws over the government laws is a good answer.

 

[snakelegs]

Re: Lal Masjid Facts

I understand where you're coming from. Let me share something with you.

Iran had a leader that didn't like US. US replaced him with Shah, who was not only US puppet but a very very ruthless dictator over his people. The result was a revolution by the people and out came the islamic iran you see today.

My point is that, when the ruler and gov't isn't "by the people, for the people" but against the people, then the people will do what they have to in order to protect themselves.

It doesn't matter what you or I think, the people are not happy and they will do what they feel needs to be done, they are seeking justice in their own way when the unjust has no one to answer to.

yes, many (probably most) people are unhappy - however this does not translate into "everyone wants pakistan to be under shariah".

 

[snakelegs]

Re: Lal Masjid Facts

I wonder what the point was in deleting these posts from Pakistan thread only to be reposted here in defiance of admin who deleted them?

what good does this to his authority?

"While it is apparent there are many people at fault in the world, it will not do a great deal of benefit to simply pick out their faults and speak ill of them."

i agree, but it is a shame that we can not discuss this issue while being mindful of avoiding backibiting and nationalism.
i was sorry that the pakistan thread was closed because it was about many subjects beside lal masjid and i thought it would be good to keep a pakistan thread available because much is going on there now.
ok i'm outa here. :hiding:

 

[Muhammad]

Re: Lal Masjid Facts

and Greetings,

*Threads Merged*

it is a shame that we can not discuss this issue while being mindful of avoiding backibiting and nationalism.

I agree, and a very important point is that violence and the killing of innocents is contrary to the teachings of Islam, as explained below, which is taken from various parts of a publication clarifying misconceptions about Islam.

Islam considers human life as sacred - Allaah (swt) in the Qur'an equates the taking of even one human life unjustly with killing all of humanity. There is no doubt that the act of inciting terror into the hearts and minds of defenseless civilians, the wholesale destruction of their homes, and the killing and maiming of innocent men, women and children are all forbidden and detestable criminal acts according to the divine law of Islam. In fact, all manifestations of injustice and oppression are condemned by Islam and its God-fearing, orthodox adherents.

Thus Islam enjoins upon its believers to strive in purifying themselves, as well as establishing peace and justice in society. Regardless of how legitimate the cause may be, the Qur'an never condones killing innocent people. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy and forgiveness. It is replete with examples of moderation and it exhorts its adherents to follow the middle course in all affairs, religious or secular. It is balanced in all aspects and does not condone any form of extremism.

With this important concept in mind, we shall put an end to this discussion. Please do not create any more threads on this topic as it has already been discussed at length.

Thread Closed.