Hulk
Part-time Avenger
- Messages
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- Islam
I used an analogy to point out the fallacy in your line of reasoning. Are you so simple that you can't comprehend that? I pointed out the errors in your argument by using the same form but with different subjects. Concluding that I liken muslims to wild animals based on that is a sure sign of lack of intelligence.We're discussing an atrocity committed by people calling themselves Muslims. That is the topic of the thread, isn't it?
True.
But I'm sure Muslims would at least want to help uphold the law of the land within their own communities. Especially in areas where integration into wider society has been limited.
As I have already mentioned, the responsibility lies upon everyone in the community regardless of their religious beliefs. To say that muslims are responsible (whether directly or indirectly) for bad actions done by other people who happen to share the same faith as them is stupid.
So do you agree that it would be wrong to judge Islam based on the actions of those who claim to practice it?My conviction that the Qur'an is a false and dangerous book has always been based on my reading of it. I even made a thread about it here some years ago before you joined the forum which you can read if you can find it. I've tried, but I'm not sure the forum history goes back that far. It was called something like "An atheist reads the Qur'an".
Also, nobody has a perfect understanding of the Qur'an. Such a thing is impossible. Consider the muqatta'at, for example.
Once again, you missed the point. Just because I use an analogy to point out an error in your line of reasoning doesn't necessarily mean I'm equating the subjects. So now you're going to say I liken muslims to chefs? I thought atheists pride themselves in being rational.We're not talking about a meal tasting bad, we're talking about innocent people ending up dead.
If you're an idiot then you'd probably do idiotic things, and it would be hard to reason with you since you're an idiot.But what if I'm an idiot? How will I decide who is knowledgable then?
I am not principally devoted to spreading mockery, and, for what it's worth, I don't have a particularly high opinion of the cartoons that are at the heart of this issue. The ones I've seen are not very subtle or clever, it seems to me, and not even well drawn. If I was an editor I don't think I would have published them, mainly because I think satire can be done far more effectively than that.
But I see no reason to ban them.
Suppose the extremists get their way, and French law moves to ban mockery of Islam. What then? All the other religions will press for the same laws (as would only be fair). What then? How about some other targets of satire who decide they don't particularly like being ridiculed? Maybe political leaders would prefer it if the media was prevented by law from mocking them?
I live in a country where people used to get burned at the stake for the crime of possessing a Bible in English. There are countries in the world today where criticism of religion is effectively punishable by death. The same is true in some countries of criticism of the political establishment. Perhaps you would prefer to live in North Korea? They take a wholeheartedly firm line against mockery over there.
I am defending free speech, and I believe that is a noble cause. Any erosion of it ought to be met with firm resistance by people who consider themselves members of a free society.
So according to your reasoning just because someone holds the opinion that those things should be banned then they are an extremist?
You're committing a slippery slope fallacy in an attempt to defend your position. I'd explain to you what that means but you'd probably say I'm equating one thing with another.
So your idea of defending free speech is to spread a specific kind of mockery?
"A cartoonist is killed for making offensive images and making an extremist angry. I want to defend free speech and show my support for it. Therefore I should spread these specific offensive images."
Do you see the stupidity in that?
It's risky but I'll try to use an example to explain.
"A person is killed for playing techno music. I want to defend the idea that people have the right to listen to whatever music genre they want. Therefore I should spread techno music around."
I know you're probably very tempted to say "Oh you're saying images mocking islam is like techno!". No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm using the same line of reasoning/form of argument to show the error in it.