Path to Persia

[Futuwwa]

The problem with the idea of a mysterious elite is not they explain too little, but they explain far, far too much. Anything and anyone can be made to fit. Any prediction can be made – and quietly reinvented if it turns out to be inaccurate.

This.

The basic premise behind the entire "NWO" conspiracy, that there's an ill-defined and invisible but all-powerful group of people cooperating to take over the world and establish themselves as its masters, is utterly worthless as far as theories go. It can't be disproven, it can predict absolutely nothing, and it can be used to explain pretty much anything that happens after the fact.

And if no hypothetical event can prove a theory wrong, then it follows that the fact that the theory manages to explain what has happened does in no way support the notion that the theory is true.

Within the philosophy of science, that's called the problem of induction. For every set of observed facts, there is an infinite number of possible theories that would explain them. Thus, the fact that your particular theory also manages to do it proves, in itself, nothing.

If it were just speculation maybe it wouldn’t matter. But the ‘secret elite’ theory has a very nasty side to it. In following it, you’re keeping company with a profoundly unattractive range of Neo Nazis and other extreme right wing groups. This theory comes straight out of Nazi anti-semitism, as well as other racist/genocidal polemicists who laid the ground for them. Is that the place you really want to be?

This part, however, does you no credit. This is a guilt by association fallacy, and an annoying one at that. As for the rest of your post though, it was full of awesome and win, and something that should have been said a long time ago. I'll grant you reputation for it, and I encourage everyone else to do the same.

 

[جوري]

and it can be used to explain pretty much anything that happens after the fact.

That's why we have strategists whose names we will remember and it is also the reason no one will remember your name- whereas you waste time refuting alleged conjectures the world unravels as many 'predicted'
Good luck with your belief system!

best,

 

[Futuwwa]

That's why we have strategists whose names we will remember and it is also the reason no one will remember your name- whereas you waste time refuting alleged conjectures the world unravels as many 'predicted'
Good luck with your belief system!

best,

Care to show some of those successful predictions? As in, predictions that are specific enough that one can unambiguously conclude whether they have succeeded or failed. Not vague, ill-defined BS "predictions" that can be "clarified" after the fact to make them fit. And predictions that specifically require a "NWO" conspiracy to make sense of happenings. Not predictions that can be made from simple, obvious observable facts that nobody contests, such as "there will be war in the Middle East".

 

[جوري]

Care to show some of those successful predictions? As in, predictions that are specific enough that one can unambiguously conclude whether they have succeeded or failed. Not vague, ill-defined BS "predictions" that can be "clarified" after the fact to make them fit. And predictions that specifically require a "NWO" conspiracy to make sense of happenings. Not predictions that can be made from simple, obvious observable facts that nobody contests, such as "there will be war in the Middle East".

There's nothing 'magical' nor anything that falls into your laughable constructs above- a strategist is just that someone who understands the game, the key players and knows how to not act on the defensive or even three steps ahead but works completely outside the confines of the game. The rest of the stuff by way of 'presictions' comes from our faith and understanding of our religion. Someone like you who understands not wala, wal bara, the first three verses from suret Al-Baqara and finds it amusing to mock our former khalifs for defending the honor of our sisters isn't someone that I'd be otherwise interested in a serious discussion with!

best

 

[جوري]

There’s no doubt that western powers are desperately trying to subvert the revolution.

A country that doesn't make its own weapons or plant its own foods of course is always gonna be at the mercy of another. And yes they use all kinds of pressure especially economic ones to establish their goals. While the evil ones like khalfan devise how to arm thugs with Molotov and guns to kill civilians and overthrow freely elected presidents with billions that I can think of a million uses of.. if nothing else at all and far away from Egypt to simply save the Myanmar Muslims from a 20 year genocide - but no..All those currently in power in fact share a very similar agenda a globalized agenda

but what can I say except to quote the noble book in its transcendence:

​

Sahih International
Indeed, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to avert [people] from the way of Allah . So they will spend it; then it will be for them a [source of] regret; then they will be overcome. And those who have disbelieved - unto Hell they will be gathered.​

 

[MustafaMc]

Why do we need these wild theories at all? The world is completely intelligble without them. If we are to disbelieve the declared motives of practically all the participants in world affairs, then surely we need something better than mere conjecture?

I assume that you accept the official 9/11 story as being truthful and completely intelligible. Well, I have studied and tried to make sense of that 'Infamous Day' which started to make sense when I came across the document 'Rebuilding America's Defenses' by PNAC and the website ae911truth.org . I do not know by what means the WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7 buildings came down, but 2 planes and jet fuel don't do it for me. Those who dismiss the evidence at hand do so either out of fear of being labeled a 'crazy conspiracy theorist' or blind trust in the patriotic and humanitarian benevolence of the entirety of the US government. The cognitive dissonance of considering anything more than the official story is too much for other people to even entertain the thought that it all might just be a big lie and a coverup.

Bin Laden is a Muslim hero - or is he a CIA agent?

Well, when he was fighting the Ruskies in Afghanistan he was a 'Freedom Fighter' according to Ronald Reagan, but he suddenly became a terrorist on the buildup to 9/11.

Your fellow conspiracist (who has made yet more of her customary deranged contributions to this thread) is using the same ‘secret elite’ theory to come up with totally opposite conclusions. In her case, everything must support her favourite Sunni imperialism viewpoint, so everything must fit that prejudice. In your case, I don’t see an agenda, but it’s still wild thinking.

My intention in opening this thread was to get discussion so I can learn more about what is going on and to get the opinions of others, even those such as yourself, that disagree. The other member here who also expresses a view contrary to what you espouse is most definitely not afraid to speak her opinion which I welcome.

When talking about genetics/evolution you come across as a fair-minded, moderate, reasonable guy. We may disagree, but I understand where you’re coming from and you’re never aggressive. That’s why it’s so disappointing that you give this fantasy the time of day.

Flattery or otherwise get's no points with me.

If it were just speculation maybe it wouldn’t matter. But the ‘secret elite’ theory has a very nasty side to it. In following it, you’re keeping company with a profoundly unattractive range of Neo Nazis and other extreme right wing groups. This theory comes straight out of Nazi anti-semitism, as well as other racist/genocidal polemicists who laid the ground for them. Is that the place you really want to be?

Funny how this exact same sentiment was used against me in the mid 1980's of associating me with suicide bombers just because I was a Muslim. I most definitely don't agree with nor support any suicide bomber NOR do I support any neo-Nazi, white supremacist, skinhead group. I do not accept guilt-by-association, either.

 

[MustafaMc]

All those currently in power in fact share a very similar agenda a globalized agenda but what can I say except to quote the noble book in its transcendence:

Sahih International
Indeed, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to avert [people] from the way of Allah . So they will spend it; then it will be for them a [source of] regret; then they will be overcome. And those who have disbelieved - unto Hell they will be gathered.

Another ayat comes to mind 8:30 "Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against you, to keep you in bonds, or slay you, or get you out (of your home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah."

 

[Independent]

I assume that you accept the official 9/11 story as being truthful and completely intelligible.

Broadly yes. There is an astonishing quantity of material about this on the web. You could spend the rest of your life reading it.

If you picked any moment in history, and performed the same kind of obsessive analysis that has been done with 9/11, you would find another set of apparent coincidences and links. That is why, whenever there is a big world event (political, deaths of celebrities or moon landings) a conspiracy theory industry immediately springs up around it.

For example, (more trivially) you may remember the tragic death of Lady Diana, the estranged wife of Prince Charles, heir to the British throne. She died in a car accident in Paris while being pursued by paparazzi. Within 2 hours the first conspiracy theories were circulating in Cairo that this was an assassination because she was perhaps going to marry a Muslim man = Dodi Fayed, who also died in the car.

At such an early stage, almost nothing was known about the incident. In fact she may not even have been dead for the first couple of hours. All the deluge of mysterious 'facts' and 'coincidences' that have come out since, were not known at that time.

This is a giveaway. The desire for the story preceded any possible knowledge of information. Nevertheless you can trawl through the same dreary litany of insane theories that you get with incidents like 9/11.

I always think that, if at this stage you still believe 9/11 was a fake, then there is probably nothing anyone can say to convince you otherwise. But have a look at this website: http://www.911myths.com/indexold.html

If nothing else, it is very clearly laid out and takes the issues one by one.

My intention in opening this thread was to get discussion so I can learn more about what is going on and to get the opinions of others, even those such as yourself, that disagree.

I agree, it's good to look at the root of these things, so much outlandish stuff gets said here without any serious challenge. For instance, it's important that people see that people who hold the same 'world elite' theory don't necessarily agree at all on how it plays out in the real world.

 

[Independent]

What’s the single biggest reason why the ‘secret elite’ theory is not believeable? You can get bogged down in all the detail, fighting each and every incident. The real giveaway is the lack of first hand witnesses.

If this long catalogue of events (9/11, London bombings, Madrid, countless other Al Quaeda and Taliban attacks, Malala etc) are all to be explained as ‘psy-ops’, that requires a huge supporting cast of active participants. The guys that carried in the explosives for the Twin Towers. The random hospital staff dealing with Malala. And so on. This now amounts to many, many thousands. Yet not one of them has ever come forward to confess.

Not one single disgruntled ex-employee. No one who felt they’d been tricked into helping. Not even some poor Alzheimer’s victim who can’t control what he’s saying any more. Everything gets leaked in the end. Let alone something with as many complex, high risk operations as this.

All this perfect secrecy, over not just decades but even centuries.

I sooooooooo don’t believe this.

 

[جوري]

It isn't a matter of belief or disbelief - under both circumstances you've failed to show how 'taliban/Al-Qaeda' involvement detracts from amero/Israeli global agenda as evinced by their very presence in the region way before any such attacks took place- In fact all you've done here is cement the idea all the more. A group of freedom fighters on to a global agenda trying to raise awareness in the Muslim world to the dangers of these colonialists .


you ought to work a little harder on the distaillate.. it doesn't matter how you slice this pie the end result is the same!

best,

 

[جوري]

The U.S indeed is losing its grip in the ME and they're dreading the rise of what they call 'Islamists' i.e the regular majority country folks. So make no mistake if they go in now it isn't because they're afraid Bashar is gonna use chemical weapons the man has already eradicated 40k that we know and 250k POWs assumed dead. If they go in now it is to stop the inevitable -- which is the rise of Muslims in shaa Allah:


http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/07/world/la-fg-us-syria-20121208
U.S. now hindered by distance it kept on Syria conflict


Washington's influence in the strategic nation is limited by its weak ties to Syrian rebel commanders who will have a major say in what happens if Bashar Assad is toppled.


December 07, 2012|By Paul Richter, Los Angeles Times

• 

A rebel fighter with his son after Friday prayers in Aleppo, Syria. As rebels… (Odd Andersen / AFP/Getty…)

WASHINGTON — With the Syrian civil war apparently near a turning point, Obama administration officials are finding their ability to influence the fast-moving events and growing violence hampered by their reluctance to become too deeply involved during the first 21 months of the conflict.
As the opposition has scored major gains against the regime of President Bashar Assad in recent days, U.S. officials have stepped up diplomatic efforts and begun weighing whether to start providing arms or other military assistance to the rebels.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

a comment about Syria and Just to add to the above that now at the 11th hour and because the free army has gained so much ground (the sunni army) that is the same one the U.S has listed on its terrorist organization list, they want to go in under the guise of saving the people from chemical weapons. So I think it is rather obvious how the game is being played!
Question is how their smarmy souls can do it without being on the ground and without dragging the entire world into a war because Turkish involvement means NATO involvement And U.S involvement means Russian, North Korea/Iran involvement..
let the players play-- Victory is to the most persevering and most God fearing!

Putin vowed to defend syria to very streets of moscow, and ofcourse the russian move to deploy S-400 missles on the turkish border.

Remember that this WW3 has been planned a long time ago, this major escalation is meant to happen. But its the will of Allah.
This major escalation will sure bring alot of suffering, a trip to the mountains and caves is a good option if not able to, prepare for shuhadah.

Yajooj wa majooj have been released, from hadith and qu'ran you will know their armies will bring fitnah and destruction everywhere. And dajjal has been released, not in psychical form yet, ofcourse this is knowledge you already know sis.


And to be truthfull both turkey and syria are being used as proxy now.

 

[Independent]

Remember that this WW3 has been planned a long time ago, this major escalation is meant to happen

Who planned it, when did they plan it, what did they say?

You have no first-hand witnesses.

You have no record of any meeting where this conspiracy is ever discussed.

Your theory has no predictive value.

Your theory leads different people to draw entirely opposite conclusions from the same evidence.

There is no secret elite.

 

[جوري]

You should consult with wiki leaks founder if you're that naive about your expectations of complete transperancy from any world govt. I am somewhat amused firstly by your superficial school boy approach to every topic a hit and run when the going gets tough and more importantly your assertion that absence of evidence is in itself proof of absence - I don't need to see or know of the bee that made the honey! Best,

 

[Independent]

So, you got nothing.

Let's see if Jedi can do any better. He seems very certain with his statement.

 

[جوري]

You got to do better than the consistent burying your head in the sand, dodging arguments from which there's no winning per your previous, ingratiating yourself to members, pseudo intellectual bullying and then make all the requests you want.

best,

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

So, you got nothing.

Let's see if Jedi can do any better. He seems very certain with his statement.

You seem to really doubt the NWO conspiracy however;

NWO is world domination;

Novus ordo seclorum; secularization of the world and world domination.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

 

[جوري]

^^ let's not forget that they killed Al'Awlaqi himself and later his teenage son for thought crimes and his son of course for thought crimes by proxy!

 

[Independent]

You seem to really doubt the NWO conspiracy however;

Greetings Jedi, I have watched your videos now. In the first two George Bush proclaims a new world order of ‘peace, freedom and the rule of law’. While I may be as cynical as you about that idea, the words themselves are not remarkable and certainly have nothing to do with a ‘third world war’. They in no way provide evidence of a ‘secret elite’ - not least because he is addressing a very public audience of hundreds of people and national tv.

Even Bush couldn't be that stupid if it was a secret.

The last video, Message to the Truthful Journalists, covers a wide range of grievances but again contains no evidence whatsoever of a secret elite.

You make a very firm statement that a Third World War has been planned by this secret elite, starting in Syria. Do you have any hard evidence for this or any direct evidence for the existence of this elite? First hand witnesses, documents, membership, recruitment - any hard evidence at all? It's been a thousand years now. Something should have turned up.