Petition UK Government to support traditional marriage

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Eric H

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If you feel that marriage between one man and one woman is sacred, then consider signing this petition please, UK residents only.

http://c4m.org.uk/aboutus/

The Coalition for Marriage is an umbrella group of individuals and organisations in the UK that support traditional marriage and oppose any plans to redefine it.
The Coalition is backed by politicians, lawyers, academics and religious leaders. It reaches out to people of all faiths and none, who believe that marriage is the most successful partnership in history and should not be redefined.
The Coalition draws upon a substantial body of evidence showing that marriage – as it has been understood for thousands of years – is beneficial to society, and that changing its definition would undermine that benefit.
The Coalition’s petition demonstrates that there is broad public opposition to redefining marriage. The Coalition is committed to a reasoned and courteous debate on this issue, and will highlight any intimidation or intolerance shown to supporters of traditional marriage.
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In the spirit of praying for the sanctity of marriage

Eric
 
Last time I checked Lot did not attempt to force the people of Sodom to give up their sinful lifestyle (although they really do seem, in context, to have been “approaching males” only in the sense of, you know, brutally gang raping people—and abandoning their wives to do so). Last time I checked he merely did his best to convince these people to change their ways of their own free will, walked away when they refused, and left the enforcing of Allah’s judgment to the angels. Last time I checked there is no coercion in religion, and this is what distinguishes truth from error. Last time I checked the definition of “fallacy of appeal to tradition” was “a fallacy that occurs when it is assumed that something is better or correct simply because it is older, traditional, or ‘always has been done’” (nizkor.org).

Last time I checked my own country has been through all of this before, and it wasn’t pretty.
 
Forgive me. My tone may have been a little off.

Let me explain now that I have nothing against you if you disagree with my about the first part. In fact I am always the first to defend you guys, and not just because you tend to come from among my own. I will always be the first to rush to someone's side the moment they're called a bigot or a "homophobe" just for--**GASP!**--holding a contrary viewpoint on the subject of the practice of homosexuality. I used to feel the same way myself. I have even, on some occasions, pounced like an animal on the hypocrite who does that, telling them that unless they hear someone making a stereotype or acting hateful just because a person is gay then that someone is not a "homophobe" in the slightest, and that "you, in fact, are the bigot for calling someone else a bigot just because they happen to not share all of your own values. And you're a hypocrite too. Double whammy." So don't think I'm an unreasonable fellow. But when it comes to depriving people of their rights I'm not going to be unreasonable about that either. Law and morality are not even the same topic anyway.
 
I can't believe I'm reading the above rant. I don't even know where to start. How can you compare interracial marriage, which is permissible within Islam, to same sex 'marriage' which is haraam and a major sin?

Furthermore, what exactly do you mean by 'depriving people of their rights'? What rights?

Finally, just wanted to add the following point from http://spa.qibla.com/

'The prophet Lut was sent to a group of people who were infamous for their depraved behavior. The men of the community were known for having sex with other men. Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Arabic can tell that these verses are talking about men who engaged in consensual sex with other men, eschewing the women who were created for them. Rape is simply not an issue'
 
Does not morality define law. The issue of gun use for example is being revised because it hold dangerous threat to other peoples lives. My two cents...
 
Tearose it is justified by saying that both stem from fear this is where I suppose they stand 'equal'..
 
tearose said:
How can you compare interracial marriage, which is permissible within Islam, to same sex 'marriage' which is haraam and a major sin?
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What it all boils down to is compelling your religion onto others. It's not up to us to determine what's "permissible".

Furthermore, what exactly do you mean by 'depriving people of their rights'? What rights?
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...

Finally, just wanted to add the following point from http://spa.qibla.com/

'The prophet Lut was sent to a group of people who were infamous for their depraved behavior. The men of the community were known for having sex with other men. Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Arabic can tell that these verses are talking about men who engaged in consensual sex with other men, eschewing the women who were created for them. Rape is simply not an issue'
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What "points"?! That just boils down to, "Anyone can plainly see that I'm right."

Berriesforest said:
Does not morality define law...
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No, keeping order and safety in society defines law. In fact you've pretty much said that yourself: "because it hold dangerous threat to other peoples lives".
 
Berries'forest said:
it is justified by saying that both stem from fear this is where I suppose they stand 'equal'..
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If you mean that opposition to these types of marriage stem from fear, that is incorrect. My opposition to same sex 'marriage' is not based on fear. It is based on the fact that this is forbidden in Islam, and that we have a duty to oppose major sins becoming a normal part of society. I'm sure many others have a similar perspective - not that they are afraid.
 
Iamzamzam. I didnt say anything about that particular matter. I meant it can be dangerous if it were legal. Morality should define the law and tearose has a point.
 
IAmZamzam said:
What "points"?! That just boils down to, "Anyone can plainly see that I'm right."
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The point is that is just one example of the many scholars throughout the history of Islam who have had the same interpretation of these ayaat. I only chose that particular example because it specifically addressed the point you made about rape. If you want to suddenly introduce a radically different new interpretation, what are you basing it on?
 
:salamext:

We've had a number of discussions on homosexuality in general in other threads. Let's try to keep this one focused on the petition :ia:.
 
:wasalamex

Sorry about that. As regards the petition, the main problem with it is that you are bringing together a lot of different groups who are united on the fact that they don't want to see these changes, but otherwise have different perspectives on marriage. So, I wouldn't necessarily want to sign a petition supporting 'Traditional Marriage' because that isn't really what I believe in. Eric H said
Eric H said:
If you feel that marriage between one man and one woman is sacred
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Well, as a Muslim I wouldn't limit it to one man and one woman because we can have polygamous marriages. It feels like they have tried to make it a postive rather than negative campaign by saying 'We're for traditional marriage, rather than against same sex marriage' but that is the very reason why I would have major doubts about signing up to it.

However, if people do decide this petition is a good idea, I'd be interested to know why IamZamzam thinks signing this petition equates to forcing your religion on somebody, and exactly which rights people would be deprived of.
 
I believe no cares what I have to say. Signing this petition is pointless for me anyway.
 
Greetings and peace be with you tearose;

Well, as a Muslim I wouldn't limit it to one man and one woman because we can have polygamous marriages.
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My apologies, the question of polygamous marriages did not cross my mind, if it causes any problems, please can a mod remove the link or thread.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric
 
Eric H said:
Greetings and peace be with you tearose

My apologies, the question of polygamous marriages did not cross my mind, if it causes any problems, please can a mod remove the link or thread.
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greetings and peace to you too. I don't think there's any need to remove it; it's an interesting question. I just have a doubt about whether I could really support the campaign because of that issue, but in sha Allah I will ask somebody more knowledgeable what they think.
 
“You have a radically new interpretation”…Yet another appeal to tradition fallacy. But yes, it is true that talking about homosexuality is one of those religious message board clichés which really should be abandoned.

I wouldn’t think that signing this petition amounted to compulsion in religion if I could be convinced that either (1) more nonreligious people were doing it or (2) the religious people could make a more persuasive case that they had secular reasons for doing what they’re doing. Making it illegal to do something because you think that your religion says it’s wrong to do that thing amounts to coercion in religion.

What rights would people be deprived of? Well, in my country at least you can start with these.
 
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It's not an appeal to 'tradition', it's respecting scholarly consensus. I have never seen any disagreement among the scholars on this issue.
I clicked on the link. Those 'rights' are not part of Islam. So why are you advocating for them?
 

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