Petition UK Government to support traditional marriage

  • Thread starter Thread starter Eric H
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 77
  • Views Views 10K
Pardon me, then. The correct term would be "fallacy of appeal to the majority".

Not part of Islam??? Caring for your fellow man is somehow not sunnah now???

Look at it this way: people are going to be getting together and living together whether you allow them to or not. We may as well accept the fact. Barring cruelly and ludicrously Orwellian measures it's hardly feasible to stop it. You may as well not give them a hard time about it. You may as well give them their financial break, especially in a hard economy like this, and leave the judging for Judgment Day.
 
tearose said:
It's not an appeal to 'tradition', it's respecting scholarly consensus. I have never seen any disagreement among the scholars on this issue.
I clicked on the link. Those 'rights' are not part of Islam. So why are you advocating for them?
Click to expand...

'respecting scholarly consensus' applies more to what you do as an individual. It does not mean you can force something 'the scholars' say onto others, especially onto those who aren't even Muslim.
 
IAmZamzam said:
"fallacy of appeal to the majority".
Click to expand...

If you don't respect the scholars what do you do when it comes to matters of fiqh?

IAmZamzam said:
Not part of Islam??? Caring for your fellow man is somehow not sunnah now???
Click to expand...

You must be joking. The 'rights' that you posted are basically financial and legal protections for people in same -sex relationships. Caring for your fellow man is not done by rewarding them for engaging in major sins.

If you don't even realise that homosexuality is haram, I don't know what else to say to you.
 
Tyrion said:
'respecting scholarly consensus' applies more to what you do as an individual. It does not mean you can force something 'the scholars' say onto others, especially onto those who aren't even Muslim.
Click to expand...

One of the things we have to do as individuals is dawah. We also have to have a good effect on the local community and try to discourage major evils which emerge. That's not forcing anybody. They have the opportunity to make their case, and so do others who disagree with them.
 
tearose said:
If you don't respect the scholars what do you do when it comes to matters of fiqh?
Click to expand...

Respecting somebody =/= automatically always agreeing with them.

You must be joking. The 'rights' that you posted are basically financial and legal protections for people in same -sex relationships. Cring for your fellow man is not done by rewarding them for engaging in major sins.
Click to expand...

Rewarding somebody =/= treating them as equals, especially when you're not realistically going to be able to stop them from doing what they're going to be doing anyway.

If you don't even realise that homosexuality is haram, I don't know what else to say to you.
Click to expand...

Frankly I'm not very interested in whether it's haraam. That's up to the Judge of All Mankind to deal with, not the judges of the Supreme Courts. What business is it of theirs?
 
Last edited:
tearose said:
One of the things we have to do as individuals is dawah. We also have to have a good effect on the local community and try to discourage major evils which emerge. That's not forcing anybody. They have the opportunity to make their case, and so do others who disagree with them.
Click to expand...

I know I sound wrong for saying this but sometimes I think some people do not deserve Dawah.
 
:salamext:

I'm not sure why this petition is causing mixed feelings. It's not about anyone forcing anyone to do anything. It's the law of the country that is changing, and so we are simply voicing our concern about the direction in which it's changing. If we as Muslims have an opportunity to stop an evil becoming worse in society, then we should do what we can (and indeed have been encouraged to). Other people of whatever religious group or thought also have the same right to petition the government to do what it is that they want. Moreover, this isn't a case of Muslims enforcing Islam on others - we have people of all backgrounds, religious and non-religious, sharing one particular viewpoint of how they want their society to be.

We have already had a thread discussing the whole issue of morality, religion and homosexuality here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-a...ment-has-no-right-introduce-gay-marriage.html
 
I understand how good your intentions are, and like I said I'm always the first to get your back as soon as anyone starts calling you "homophobes" just on general principles even if you haven't issued a single slur beforehand. So I hope you guys will extend me the same courtesy and not be on my back when I say that...sorry, but technically speaking this is forcing things on people. I apologize but I just don't know how else to look at it. Trying to keep someone from marrying someone is trying to force them not to marry. Where is the flaw in this logic?? I fail to see it.
 
Last edited:
:wa:

Let society collapse. They created this mess in the first place and deserve to buried in it. That is when they will release how utterly stupid and pathetic they are.
 
IAmZamzam said:
...sorry, but technically speaking this is forcing things on people. I apologize but I just don't know how else to look at it. Trying to keep someone from marrying someone is trying to force them not to marry. Where is the flaw in this logic?? I fail to see it.
Click to expand...
But this argument can apply to anything - making it illegal to murder, steal etc. Those people are also forced not to do what they might want. The law has to prevent these things to stop a greater harm occurring to society. And as Muslims, we have even more reason to support their prevention.
 
^ You can't actually see a direct harmful impact from homosexual relationships unlike theft. It's a long-term impact which will be negative. The negative effects are more subtle so it is more difficult to prevent these relationships because not many can see the harm that results from it.
 
Smoking also has a subtle, long-term impact, but its harms are still recognised, enough for it to be banned in certain public places.

And yet homosexuality does have some direct consequences like transmission of certain diseases.
 
Muhammad said:
Smoking also has a subtle, long-term impact, but its harms are still recognised, enough for it to be banned in certain public places.

And yet homosexuality does have some direct consequences like transmission of certain diseases.
Click to expand...

Yes but not all homosexuals engage in homosexual sex. Some argue that they use protection.

The problem is that's not convincing the public. It's a valid argument but unfortunately most people in Britain appears not to be affected by this.

The long-term effects I'm referring to are family structure breakdowns. This is one of the reasons why the Roman Empire collapsed.

So once British people see the breakdown of family values and structure due to homosexual relationships, which will affect the country then they return to old traditional values...I think.
 
That is where the petition comes in - so that the people who are convinced are acknowledged. :)
 
In ancient times, yes, it was dangerous, because they didn't have the medical knowledge and resources we have now. And that was part of the prohibition too. I would've mentioned that earlier, had I not first left the house in a hurry and then come back to the board too late for you not to have made that shrewd suggestion not to discuss this aspect of things further. But since you're the one who brought this up, didn't The Prophet prohibit anal sex with women as well (Sahih Muslim 8:3365)? It was dangerous then. But the people who try to pass it off as dangerous now have been taken seriously mostly within their own circles, and by, shall we say, their own doctors. There is perhaps still slightly more risk from anal, but it's no longer much of an issue at this late date.

Smoking, on the other hand...well, actually, I don't know if that should be illegal either but it's much more dangerous. It certainly doesn't disrupt the functioning of society on the whole to let anyone smoke. I have no problem with smoking being banned from certain public places and there's a good reason for sexual activity to be banned from them too (libraries spring to mind...)

However "society in general" is a very, very big place to ban anything from, and so one must never be hasty about making that kind of decision, especially when there are a lot of groups of people living there who do not share your religious views.
 
Last edited:
GuestFellow said:
know I sound wrong for saying this but sometimes I think some people do not deserve Dawah.
Click to expand...

It's not for us to decide who deserves it, brother. Our duty is just to pass on the message as best we can.
May Allah guide us all.

Muhammad said:
I'm not sure why this petition is causing mixed feelings. It's not about anyone forcing anyone to do anything. It's the law of the country that is changing, and so we are simply voicing our concern about the direction in which it's changing. If we as Muslims have an opportunity to stop an evil becoming worse in society, then we should do what we can (and indeed have been encouraged to).
Click to expand...

I only have mixed feelings because it means signing in favour of a definition of marriage which is not Islamic. On the other hand it could be that we can do so with the intention of warding off a greater evil and one which is relatively new in the UK. But I don't have enough knowledge to make that decision.

IAmZamzam said:
Frankly I'm not very interested in whether it's haraam.
Click to expand...

Well, if you can say such a thing, that says it all really. Ridiculous.
 
Well, if you can say such a thing, that says it all really. Ridiculous.
Click to expand...

We already have the power to petition the one true Judge on the issue of ethical matters, and the one true Being who has the power to turn people's hearts. We've had it all along. You want to do that? Go do it now. All I'm saying is that I'm recognizing what's relevant to this subject and what isn't.
 
Eric H said:
If you feel that marriage between one man and one woman is sacred, then consider signing this petition please, UK residents only.

http://c4m.org.uk/aboutus/



In the spirit of praying for the sanctity of marriage

Eric
Click to expand...

What does it matter if a secular courtroom officiates a wedding between same-sex couples? As long as they don't force churches, synagogues, or mosques to do it, it's not harming you or your faith.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top