Phoney people

:sl:
im sorry woodrow, i meant "do you mean like mentally unstable people." typo...


from your post that i quoted,

there seems parts of it where it could have been referring to/describing an mentally unstable person since they sometimes dont have certain perceptions and/or are unaware of what they are doing.

i didn't know there was a term amoral. i seemed to have completely missed it in your post.

Perhaps this will help. the dictionary definition of amoral:

amoral [eɪˈmɒrəl]
adj
1. having no moral quality; nonmoral
2. without moral standards or principles
amorality [ˌeɪmɒˈrælɪtɪ] n
amorally adv
Usage: Amoral is often wrongly used where immoral is meant. Immoral is properly used to talk about the breaking of moral rules, amoral about people who have no moral code or about places or situations where moral considerations do not apply
 
Interesting, Woodrow.

I am assuming that our chances of coming across a sociopath are fairly slim.
Do you know what percentage of the population - say in the U.S. - are considered to be sociopaths?
 
Interesting, Woodrow.

I am assuming that our chances of coming across a sociopath are fairly slim.
Do you know what percentage of the population - say in the U.S. - are considered to be sociopaths?

Sociopath is difficult to define. It is often confused with anti-social.

However to be classified as a mental disorder the DSM list the criteria:

Profile of the Sociopath

This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.


* Glibness and Superficial Charm

* Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

* Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

* Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

* Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

* Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

* Incapacity for Love

* Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

* Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

* Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

* Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

* Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

* Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

* Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

* Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

Other Related Qualities:

1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
3. Authoritarian
4. Secretive
5. Paranoid
6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
7. Conventional appearance
8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world


(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)

SOURCE


Now for figures on the number of sociopaths in the USA:

A researcher, Martha Stout, and author of the book "The Sociopath Next Door" calculates that 1 out of every 25 people meet the definition of being a sociopath. this is probably either the truth or very close, but that is based on world wide. As far as being in the USA alone the figures are considerably less than what should be found and only about 1% of the USA has been positively identified as being a sociopath. But it is also recognised that most of the population has not been evaluated and that sociopaths often go unidentified unless the do something that draws attention to themselves.

"Who are these people? Why are they the way they are? Apparently it has little to do with upbringing. Many studies have been done trying to find out what kind of childhood leads to sociopathy. So far, nothing looks likely. They could be from any kind of family. It is partly genetic, and partly mystery.

But researchers have found that the brains of sociopaths function differently than normal people. And their brains function in a way that makes their emotional life unredeemably shallow. And yet they are capable of mimicking emotions like professional actors."

SOURCE
 
:sl:

can someone get away with their dishonesty...i mean can someone be that good at lying and acting they they go unnoticed :? can someone truly be that good of an actor? is it possible?
:w:

They might be able to fool some people for some of the time, but they can't fool everyone, every time.
 
Woodrow, that percentage (of 1 in 25) is much higher than I had expected.

It is certainly my (personal and therefore subjective) perception that as a society (at least here in the UK) we are becoming more self-centered and concerned with our own interests rather than the greater good for all - to the detriment of the vulnerable and marginalized members of society.
I assume that anti-social behaviour is on the rise too. (Although, like I said I have no evidence to support this)

Has the percentage of sociopath been stable? (As much as can be told. I assume it depends on how long the term has even exosted and long the group has been studied) Or is there evidence that it is changing?
 
Woodrow, that percentage (of 1 in 25) is much higher than I had expected.

It is certainly my (personal and therefore subjective) perception that as a society (at least here in the UK) we are becoming more self-centered and concerned with our own interests rather than the greater good for all - to the detriment of the vulnerable and marginalized members of society.
I assume that anti-social behaviour is on the rise too. (Although, like I said I have no evidence to support this)

Has the percentage of sociopath been stable? (As much as can be told. I assume it depends on how long the term has even exosted and long the group has been studied) Or is there evidence that it is changing?

The condition was first recognized in the 1930s. Agreed upon methods of identifying it are still not found world wide. I would say that the findings to date only reflect current estimates and insufficient data exists to accurately identify any trends.
 
most fake people get away with it because most people are fake anyway, and the ones that are genuine are not looking for fake "vibes" in people anyway.

i reckon you have to be very self centered before people start noticing.
 
I tend to trust that other people are genuine and honest. Some might call that naive or even gullible, and perhaps that is so.

But imagine if we were all suspicious of other people all the time, what kind of society would we live in? Where nobody trusts anybody else and everybody expects the worst of others.

My experience is that most people - of any race, religion, age and gender - tend to be good and kind and honest people. Some more, some less - let's be honest, there is room for improvement in all of us - but on the whole I find most people are okay! Let's be glad of that! :statisfie
 
most fake people get away with it because most people are fake anyway, and the ones that are genuine are not looking for fake "vibes" in people anyway.

i reckon you have to be very self centered before people start noticing.

everyone is fake now a days

on facebook you get people boasting about every little thing they do, how good of a time they had last night etc - they're all fake
 
I tend to trust that other people are genuine and honest. Some might call that naive or even gullible, and perhaps that is so.

But imagine if we were all suspicious of other people all the time, what kind of society would we live in? Where nobody trusts anybody else and everybody expects the worst of others.

My experience is that most people - of any race, religion, age and gender - tend to be good and kind and honest people. Some more, some less - let's be honest, there is room for improvement in all of us - but on the whole I find most people are okay! Let's be glad of that! :statisfie

If you look carefully at what you just stated

But imagine if we were all suspicious of other people all the time, what kind of society would we live in? Where nobody trusts anybody else and everybody expects the worst of others.

Now reflect over the criteria of a sociopath. Paranoia/suspicion/distrust are factors of sociopathy

Your answer is there, the society would become a society of sociopaths.

The nation would become a nation of what they feared and despised.
 
If you look carefully at what you just stated

But imagine if we were all suspicious of other people all the time, what kind of society would we live in? Where nobody trusts anybody else and everybody expects the worst of others.

Now reflect over the criteria of a sociopath. Paranoia/suspicion/distrust are factors of sociopathy

Your answer is there, the society would become a society of sociopaths.

The nation would become a nation of what they feared and despised.
That's an interesting point!
So is the answer to try and be more trusting of each other and to believe in the good in mankind?
 
That's an interesting point!
So is the answer to try and be more trusting of each other and to believe in the good in mankind?

We have no control for the actions and thoughts of others. But we each have the ability to be a trust worthy person ourselves. We each need to be a person worthy of being trusted and do our best to avoid tempting others to take advantage. Trust those you know, but protect what you have in the event somebody you do not know desires what you have.



Trust in Allaah(swt) and we will have no need to fear or distrust any man. But, we must never forget it is our responsibility to tie our camel so it does not wander into a neighbors yard and be mistaken as a gift.
 
^
Wise words, Woodrow! (Great alliteration! :D)
Thanks for sharing. That's much to ponder about ...
 
There are people who have an amoral personality. This means they actually have no concept of remorse or sorrow. It is as if they were born without a soul. They can not be called evil or good. They are neither moral nor immoral, they have no concept of morality and neither feel fear of recourse for their actions nor any concept of simple human feelings. these people are the most difficult to catch in deceit as they have no concept of what deceit is.

I have met an individual who showed no remorse. No compassion. No feelings. It is extremely hard to understand. Even to this day this individual is mysterious to me.

I can't grasp how this individual views the world and how the brain functions. So unique and so different.

May Allah swa protect us all Ameen
 
There are people who have an amoral personality. This means they actually have no concept of remorse or sorrow. It is as if they were born without a soul. They can not be called evil or good. They are neither moral nor immoral, they have no concept of morality and neither feel fear of recourse for their actions nor any concept of simple human feelings. these people are the most difficult to catch in deceit as they have no concept of what deceit is.

Yes scientists can be like this. They can do horrendous things in the pursuit of science. Also the military is like this and scientists and military work together to make and deploy the most wicked of weapons.
 
I have met an individual who showed no remorse. No compassion. No feelings. It is extremely hard to understand. Even to this day this individual is mysterious to me.

I can't grasp how this individual views the world and how the brain functions. So unique and so different.

May Allah swa protect us all Ameen

Maybe they have an advantage. Compassionate people suffer from depression and despair.
 
in my experience everybody has narrow vision.

we see the world through our own eyes (perspective) and even if you think back once a day and say i should not have done that...

there are probably a hundred other times that you probably have not even noticed.


and to think that you encounter or interact with hundreds of people every day, its not surprising.

the funny thing is that you think people are constant in character to mean constant in personality..

this is not the case.


i dont think i can explain it, but imagine you were deconstructed brick by brick and then forced to rebuild yourself.. thats when you realise who you are.

or who people want you to be.


so i dont make judgement calls on character anymore.. its hard to explain, i just avoid those that would make me into something i am not.. whenever i can.

i feel empathy for phony people.. although opening post probably does not..


its like if you were deconstructed brick by brick and forced to rebuild yourself.. you would probably never show that house to anybody.



the flip side is that for every person who does not want to be who they are, there are others that cant see past themselves.

although most people are unable to see anything other than reality, how on earth can somebody reprogram themselves?


a delusional person would say its a world full of angels and demons..

a sane person would be able to tell them apart.



unfortunately, if it translates as friend or foe.. then perspective is everything.


can someone get away with their dishonesty...i mean can someone be that good at lying and acting they they go unnoticed can someone truly be that good of an actor? is it possible?


i have been to places where people tell the truth even when they are lying.. although it seems no good comes of it.

and i have heard people that are disregarded even when telling the truth...

authority is god given it seems.


and again, everybody has there own perspective.





(imo if one finds the wrong perspective then it is the exact misguidance mentioned in the quran, you would probably think you were better of just being who you were)


you can usually tell who the sincere and good people are...becuase they do things from their heart and this shows in their actions. and likewise with the not so good and honest person, as i said, eventually this also shows in their actions (or words) as well.


it is easy to be sincere when not travelling up hill.. in my pessimistic opinion.

when times are hard, people develop and grow.. probably without even knowing.
 
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As long as we have clean heart, we should not afraid to be ourselves. Don't worry, there are always people who can accept us, as long as we can accept other people too.

:)
 
Sociopath is difficult to define. It is often confused with anti-social.

However to be classified as a mental disorder the DSM list the criteria:

Profile of the Sociopath

This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.


* Glibness and Superficial Charm

* Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

* Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

* Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

* Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

* Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

* Incapacity for Love

* Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

* Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

* Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

* Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

* Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

* Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

* Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

* Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

Other Related Qualities:

1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
3. Authoritarian
4. Secretive
5. Paranoid
6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
7. Conventional appearance
8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world


(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)

SOURCE


Now for figures on the number of sociopaths in the USA:

A researcher, Martha Stout, and author of the book "The Sociopath Next Door" calculates that 1 out of every 25 people meet the definition of being a sociopath. this is probably either the truth or very close, but that is based on world wide. As far as being in the USA alone the figures are considerably less than what should be found and only about 1% of the USA has been positively identified as being a sociopath. But it is also recognised that most of the population has not been evaluated and that sociopaths often go unidentified unless the do something that draws attention to themselves.

"Who are these people? Why are they the way they are? Apparently it has little to do with upbringing. Many studies have been done trying to find out what kind of childhood leads to sociopathy. So far, nothing looks likely. They could be from any kind of family. It is partly genetic, and partly mystery.

But researchers have found that the brains of sociopaths function differently than normal people. And their brains function in a way that makes their emotional life unredeemably shallow. And yet they are capable of mimicking emotions like professional actors."

SOURCE

Wow, that sounds like the average Zionist.
I would say there would be more sociopaths in the USA, as most of that lifestyle sounds like "the American way".
I have read some literature from some other shrinks and they think the "sociopath" is too pigeon holed, too simplistic, a sort of way to label people without full understanding of the individual. It's a bit like the thinking that left handed people were of the devil or something bad in early days.
That is the problem with people, they always want to catalogue everything and put them into nice little boxes with labels. I suppose it gives them a false sense of security and purpose... and a job.
 
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One day me and my friend visited a place and we met a good looking guy, around 30 years old. I didn't realize who was he until someone called his name. "Is he ........?" I asked my friend "Yes!" my friend said.

Few day later we visited the same place and met that guy again. And when we would back home he asked me "Hei, may I ride in your car until ........ ?". Then he rode in my car until to a street. He smile at me when he out from my car and said politely "Thank you very much".

That was the last time I saw him. Around a week later I read in my newspaper, he was murdered!

But I was not wonder. I had heard his reputation in crime. And police said, that murder related to crime he had ever done.

How was he?. Do not thinking he was scary guy. He was nice and pleasant good looking guy. That's my impression when I met and talked with him twice.

Was he phoney person?.
 

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