Please explain the sacrificial system

[جوري]

No__ you are trying to show how 'special' Issac's birth is, and I am showing you that his can be compared to any other... the messengers lives is always filled with toil and hardship..

at this stage and in face of overwhelming biblical evidence quoted above, you are free to believe what you desire ... since everything is Christianity is already a joke from the man God to the singularity of Issac over all else.. seems you simply pick the characters you like to make it fit with your faulty logic? ...

 

[mkh4JC]

I think the point Follower is trying to make is that Issac's birth came about by divine intervention. God made a promise to Abraham that he would bless him and Sarah with a child in their old and stricken age. Yes, Ishmael is Abraham's son as well, but his birth came about because Abraham was trying to accomplish God's plan of his own self (something that Christians are often admonished not to do, thinking we have God's plan for our life all figured out, or trying to make a promise or blessing of God come about of our own making, instead of waiting on the Lord to fulfill said promises). They felt that they had figured out God's plan is what I'm trying to say.

And God has blessed the Arabs, that is why they have so much oil. But in terms of salvation, it is of the Jews.

 

[جوري]

What you think God's plan and what God's plan actually is, are two separate things -- I find it disturbing to say the least the lengths the majority of you would go through to loan credence to nonsense-- even using your own book.. the circuitous trail really must be tiresome for you!

but again, I say you are allowed to think and believe what you will..
the reality is we know how Allah swt has blessed Abraham's house, in the first place of worship he built to glorify him this year alone three million pilgrims from America to the china seas and every where there is in between come to worship in the house that Abraham built, some saving for twenty years to make that trip..

It has nothing to do with Arabs or oil.. so you can take your hypothesis and suppositions and do you know what with it!!

or better yet go spend on your commercial holiday observing paganism..

cheers

 

[mkh4JC]

What you think God's plan and what God's plan actually is, are two separate things-- I find it disturbing to say the least the lengths the majority of you would go through to loan credence to nonsense-- even using your own book.. the circuitous trail really must be tiresome for you!

but again, I say you are allowed to think and believe what you will..
the reality is we know how Allah swt has blessed Abraham's house, in the first place of worship he built to glorify him this year alone three million pilgrims from America to the china seas and every where there is in between come to worship in the house that Abraham built, some saving for twenty years to make that trip..

It has nothing to do with Arabs or oil.. so you can take your hypothesis and suppositions and do you know what with it!!

or better yet go spend on your commercial holiday observing paganism..

cheers

Well, I don't know what to tell you. I could quote a few scriptures explaining how when you accept Christ, he grants you power over your lifestyle as a person, no matter what kind of past you may have. I could give you my testimony, explain to you the things I used to be bound with. I could explain to you the fierce discipline and kinds of things that God has placed in my life as a result of me sinning (not continuous sinning mind you, but only when I first accepted Christ, and no, I just couldn't go ask for forgiveness and everything would be alright, like in other faiths). I could explain to you that the Christian lifestyle is not equated in any other religious form, nor can anyone who is not Christian live it, but you probably wouldn't believe me (seeing as how this is the anonymous Internet).

Suffice it to say, everyone has to come to the knowledge of who Jesus is for themselves.

 

[جوري]

I don't find any of you having power of your life, rather you are reduced to pathetic ploys and attempts to get everyone to be astray right along with you.. if not experiencing a severity of religious delusions that actually prompts psychiatrists to run studies on its cause and publish --
The Protestants experienced more religious delusions than Catholics and those without religious affiliation-- from

Frequency and severity of religious delusions in Christian patients with psychosis .
Psychiatry Research , Volume 103 , Issue 1 , Pages 87 - 91
G . Getz

that I actually start to pity you -- not only are your delusions nonsensical but they don't conform to any accepted, moral/social/historical norm...
the length you'd go through to distort Islam to make sense of Christianity..

you feel you have found your forgiveness in the man/God fantasy and that your bible is unerring be my guest.. I have actually spent a large chunk of my life studying Christianity and attending christian schools that the thought of being an atheist to me is more acceptable than being christian!

all the best

 

[mkh4JC]

I don't find any of you having power of your life, rather you are reduced to pathetic ploys and attempts to get everyone to be astray right along with you.. if not experiencing a severity of religious delusions that actually prompts psychiatrists to run studies on its cause and publish --

No, if you are truly Christian you do have power over your lifestyle. Scripture supports this. Everyone I know to be Christian lives their lives in victory over sin, despite oppressive pasts. And it's not a delusion to live life free from the things that previously had you bound, that's called deliverance.

The Protestants experienced more religious delusions than Catholics and those without religious affiliation


Frequency and severity of religious delusions in Christian patients with psychosis .
Psychiatry Research , Volume 103 , Issue 1 , Pages 87 - 91
G . Getz

that I actually start to pity you -- not only are your delusions nonsensical but they don't confirm to any accepted, moral/social/historical norm...
the length you'd go through to distort Islam to make sense of Christianity..

Well, I've already gone over the moral issue. Quite simply, you can't live the Christian life apart from Christ. But in terms of distoring Islam, I don't think I have done that while I am here, rather, I have been trying to clear up misconceptions about Christianity and what a Christian really is.

you feel you have found your forgiveness in the man/God fantasy and that your bible is unerring be my guest...]I have actually spent a large chunk of my life studying Christianity and attending christian schools that the thought of being an atheist to me is more acceptable than being christian[/B]!

all the best

Well, I don't know what to tell you. What Christian schools were you attending? Catholic? Catholicism is not Christian, and is in fact the biggest stumbling block to people accepting Christ. It's barbaric history automatically disqualifies it from being considered the true church of Christ. Catholicism has in truth left the straight and narrow a long time ago.

 

[جوري]

No, if you are truly Christian you do have power over your lifestyle. Scripture supports this. Everyone I know to be Christian lives their lives in victory over sin, despite oppressive pasts. And it's not a delusion to live life free from the things that previously had you bound, that's called deliverance.

I am glad everyone you know lives in victory.. that is really relevant to our topic!

Well, I've already gone over the moral issue. Quite simply, you can't live the Christian life apart from Christ. But in terms of distoring Islam, I don't think I have done that while I am here, rather, I have been trying to clear up misconceptions about Christianity and what a Christian really is.

What misconceptions do we have about Christianity -- did you not reduce God to a man, made him leave the universe behind to die in Nazareth where he prayed to himself in the Garden of Gethsemane, forsake himself, accursed the earth he supposedly created when it didn't bear him fruit? that is the message of Christianity that is clear to us -- there is no deliverance in 'shirk'

Pickthal 18:1] Praise be to Allah Who hath revealed the Scripture unto His slave, and hath not placed therein any crookedness,
[Pickthal 18:2] (But hath made it) straight, to give warning of stern punishment from Him, and to bring unto the believers who do good works the news that theirs will be a fair reward,
[Pickthal 18:3] Wherein they will abide for ever;
[Pickthal 18:4] And to warn those who say: Allah hath chosen a son,
[Pickthal 18:5] (A thing) whereof they have no knowledge, nor (had) their fathers, Dreadful is the word that cometh out of their mouths. They speak naught but a lie.
[Pickthal 18:6] Yet it may be, if they believe not in this statement, that thou wilt torment thy soul with grief over their footsteps.
[Pickthal 18:7] Lo! We have placed all that is on the earth as an ornament thereof that We may try them: which of them is best in conduct.
[Pickthal 18:8] And lo! We shall make all that is thereon a barren mound.

Well, I don't know what to tell you. What Christian schools were you attending? Catholic? Catholicism is not Christian, and is in fact the biggest stumbling block to people accepting Christ. It's barbaric history automatically disqualifies it from being considered the true church of Christ. Catholicism has in truth left the straight and narrow a long time ago.

Glad you brought that up, since the ink hasn't dried yet on paper from your cohorts 'follower' and 'Grace' who themselves under some delusions that Christians are united and all share the same unadulterated book --

it doesn't matter to me whether you are decadent or reformed ( I am quite familiar with the difference) if anything I'd probably think the amish is the best of you, but a central theme to your religion is a man/God with a mother and another alter ego, frankly doesn't sit well with me or anything thinking discerning person.. I am not even going to touch upon the scores of errors and hypocrisy that exist within your bible.. quite simply if Christianity make you happy, then I am happy for you -- let's leave it at that!

cheers

 

[mkh4JC]

Well as a final response I will say that I can't make you believe that Jesus is the Son of God. I could quote you scriptures, for example, the beginning of the Gospel of John. But like I said, everyone has to come to the knowledge of who Jesus is for themselves. All I can do as a Christian is testify to what he has done in my own life. And if you watched Christian television (like Daystar or TBN) you will see that there is far more than just my circle of friends who attest that Jesus saves sinners from their sins.

 

[جوري]

Jesus is but a messenger of God -- like those who preceded him-- will descend to do the will of God restore the commandments that Christianity as a whole has made an abomination of die like men do--
'being saved' is up to God.. no one has come from death to tell us how they were saved.. one isn't saved through taking on other Gods beside God..
It comes down to belief.. and your beliefs are a bit unbelievable to me -- they defy common sense and logic and your scriptures leave very little to be desired in terms of validity ..

so we'll await the day of recompense for God to judge amongst us who was living in truth and who was living in sin!

all the best

 

[Grace Seeker]

Well, I don't know what to tell you. What Christian schools were you attending? Catholic? Catholicism is not Christian, and is in fact the biggest stumbling block to people accepting Christ. It's barbaric history automatically disqualifies it from being considered the true church of Christ. Catholicism has in truth left the straight and narrow a long time ago.

Fedos, I guess you did prove Skye's point. But I would disagree with you, I believe that Catholics are just as much Christian as you or I, as they worship the same Christ that we do. I'm not saying that they have everything right, but I don't that any of us have it all right, for we all see in a glass darkly and are yet to see face to face. Only in the end will we know for sure, in the present we seek to follow as best as we can, and I believe that Catholic Christians are doing that as well.


My dear M, I admit that what you see in Fedos' post is a disunity within the Christian Church. He rejects Catholics as Christians because he sees them as having strayed from his understanding of what it means to be Christian, just as I say that the Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses have strayed. Remembering those other groups, that you originally listed as Christian from your Yahoo source and that I disputed, be considered by those outside the Christian faith as Christian, would it not be just as fair for a non-Muslim to see the same thing happening with your rejection of the Ahamdi as not being truly Muslim, for they say that they are. Perhaps there is less unity in Islam than you think, just as there is apparently less in Christianity than I have hope for.

 

[جوري]

would it not be just as fair for a non-Muslim to see the same thing happening with your rejection of the Ahamdi as not being truly Muslim, for they say that they are. Perhaps there is less unity in Islam than you think, just as there is apparently less in Christianity than I have hope for.

Ahmadi faith was instituted by the British-- I think any light reading on the subject can explain that to you?
they can call themselves whatever they want-- but Islam isn't subject to reinterpretation or a reformation as is with Christianity..

you'll find that with your sects in Christianity even 'Mormonism -- your bible in whatever version and the man/God concept is central theme..

not the same with any so called new emerging group that wishes to call themselves Muslims -- there is no 'reincarnation, of Jesus and Mohammed and a Kirhsna in a little Indian boy whom the Brits thought would be ideal to further their abuse and Monopoly!

To be Muslims it is as easy as opening the Quran and reading it, and sticking to proper sunna, hence 90% of Muslims are sunni, the same today as they were centuries ago!


I assure you I didn't need Fedos to sway my opinion-- it is nice however that someone is truthful and forth coming about what I already know..



peace

 

[Grace Seeker]

you'll find that with your sects in Christianity even 'Mormonism -- your bible in whatever version and the man/God concept is central theme..

We've gone far afield from the original topic, but this is one of the reasons I disputed so many of the groups on that list you provided. While the Mormons purport to use both the Bible and their own Book of Mormon (plus a few other special revelations), some of the groups listed, like the Unification Church, have no purpose for the Bible at all, having more in common with eastern religions than with Christianity. I hope you now that I don't really hold that Ahamdi are Muslims, but most of those other groups that I culled from that Yahoo list are about a Christian as the Ahamdi are Muslim. That was my point.

To be Muslims it is as easy as opening the Quran and reading it, and sticking to proper sunna, hence 90% of Muslims are sunni, the same today as they were centuries ago!

And to be Christian is as easy as accepting that all humans were meant to live in fellowship with God, that this relationship has been broken by sin that exists in each of us, that the means for reestablishing one's broken relationship with God is found in Jesus Christ, and then placing one's faith in him to do that by virture of his death on the cross and resurrection to new life. His work, not ours, accomplishes this reconciliation and thus he becomes not just our savior. But he is more than just our savior, we must also accept him as Lord of our lives directing them to be lived in submission to God and doing good works --not to earn salvation but as an offering of thanks for that which he has accomplished in our lives. Those that promote something beyond this are passing something else off as Christianity that really isn't.


And I sincerely wish you peace as well.

 

[Imam]

A strongly related topic is under discussion here.....

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/134274075-why-jews-dont-believe-jesus-2.html


waiting for those who would like to join

peace

 

[rpwelton]

I've been away for quite some time, so I'd like to take the time to reply to some points made on this thread. It's probably going to be a long post and I'd like to reply to almost every point made since my last post, with the exception of the Issac/Ishmael debate because I do not have proper knowledge of that.

Greetings and peace be with you rpwelton;


Would it be safe to say that God had a plan before the creation of the universe began. If this is so, would it make sense that the life, death and resurrection of Jesus was planned before creation began. This would mean that the sacrifice to forgive all sins was in place before the creation of the Prophet Adam, and hence would cover all people from the beginiong.


Eric

Yes, Eric, I can see how God would have a plan, and it would make sense that the people before Jesus (as) could benefit. However, there is one major flaw with this idea, and that is that the people that came before Jesus (as) obviously did not accept Jesus (as). So you run into a problem:

All people before Jesus (as) are forgiven with the blood of Jesus (as) and therefore they are allowed to enter Heaven. This of course is a problem because they did not accept Jesus (as) as their savior as people must today. So in a sense, they are getting a "free pass", whereas people living after Jesus (as) have to accept him as their savior.

I'm sure you'll probably come back and say it only applies to those who followed the animal sacrifice system to get forgiveness for their sins, but since this was an imperfect system, who gets forgiveness and who doesn't? Because in Christianity Heaven and Hell is a very black and white issue, so you either get forgiveness for all sins or not.

Why a sacrifice is needed. GOD is just. If He were not just He would just say ok I forgive you. When a sin is done we owe GOD. There must be a payment for the debt. The animal sacrifices were instituted. Man was still sinning while performing the animal sacrifices in hypocrisy. Leave man out of the equation for the perfect MAN Jesus to give up His life for us.

There was a separation of Jesus from GOD- Jesus went to the spirits/souls in prison [hell] and preached to them.

Again, if man was being hypocritical while performing the animal sacrifices, how can the blood of Jesus (as) cover these people? Why do they get saved when people after Jesus (as) had to be ritcheous (sp?) beings?

If they are not saved by the blood of Jesus (as), isn't that a bit unfair to say that Jesus (as) died for only the sins of those who came after him?

Also, I didn't know that Jesus (as) went to hell and preached to people there. What is the point of that? Don't you think everyone is too busy with all of the pain and suffering to hear anything he has to say? Did he actually pull people out of hell, or was he just telling them how they should have lived their lives?

If you do not know for certain and since his name is not mentioned you do not know who he is in the Quran you must ask those that read the Holy Bible.

I'm going to stay out of the whole Issac/Ishmael thing because I'm not knowledgeable enough on that particular topic. I will say, however, that it's irrelavent to the topic at large, that is, why the sacrifical system existed in the Old Testament.

I'm surprised that no Muslim has followed up on this yet. So, on their behalf, I will ask. You seem to be implying that it would not be just for God to simply say, "OK, I forgive you." Why not? Why is it more just to forgive us sinners based on a vicarious sacrifice by an innocent indiividual than it would be to just outright forgive those who were truly penitent?

I'm going to put my 2 cents in here, but Grace Seeker did much of the job for me. Indeed a Muslim's position is fairly obvious: when a Christian says God is just, then we say why does an innocent person need to die for the sinners of the world?

If a criminal is convicted of a crime, the judge cannot instead substitute someone else in his place to serve the sentence.

A bank lends money to someone. The loan become due but the original person can not repay the debt. The bank has to have the money replaced so it can continue to function. His friend says I have the money I will pay the debt for you. The bank accepts the payment by the friend.

Sin causes a debt that must be paid.

You are saying that the bank does not care who gives them the money, just so long as they are repaid in full, which is true. BUT, if we continue with this example, let's say hypothetically that you have the money, in which case the bank says OK and takes the repayment from you. In the Christian sense, however, you can't repay the bank. You are never able to repay the bank, only someone else has that kind of power (Jesus (as)). What kind of twisted bank only allows someone else to make your debt repayment, and not the borrower himself?

Well, I don't know what to tell you. I could quote a few scriptures explaining how when you accept Christ, he grants you power over your lifestyle as a person, no matter what kind of past you may have. I could give you my testimony, explain to you the things I used to be bound with. I could explain to you the fierce discipline and kinds of things that God has placed in my life as a result of me sinning (not continuous sinning mind you, but only when I first accepted Christ, and no, I just couldn't go ask for forgiveness and everything would be alright, like in other faiths). I could explain to you that the Christian lifestyle is not equated in any other religious form, nor can anyone who is not Christian live it, but you probably wouldn't believe me (seeing as how this is the anonymous Internet).

Suffice it to say, everyone has to come to the knowledge of who Jesus is for themselves.

This is actually a non-point, because religious people both Christian and Muslim (as well as others) will attest to their lives changing because their religion gave them power to overcome sin. It depends on the person, but very often religion causes a change within someone no matter what religion you belong to.

What exactly is the Christian lifestyle supposed to be? Can someone outline that for me? When I was a Christian it was:

1) Be a good person and do good deeds for others (not specific to Christianity)
2) Don't be a drunk (some Christians drink, some don't and the Bible doesn't tell you not to)
3) Go to Church on Sundays (and Bible studies as well)
4) Read the Bible on a regular basis

Those are the main things that I lived by when I was a Christian. If you can expound on that and enlighten me as to what other virtues Christians incorporate into their lives that would help.

If you want to talk about a disciplined life, however, let's look at what an ideal Muslim's life is supposed to be like:

1) Be a good person and do good deeds (not specific to Islam, but a part of it)
2) Pray 5 times a day
3) Do not drink alcohol at all
4) Don't eat pork
5) Fast at least 1 month a year (Ramadaan)
6) Give charity (not specific to Islam, but a mandated part of it)

There are others, but I just wanted to give you a little perspective as far as discipline goes. If you want to use the argument that Jesus (as) has changed your life because your lifestyle and discipline has changed, then we must also look at the Muslim whose life has dramatically changed from what he/she was used to.

Well, I don't know what to tell you. What Christian schools were you attending? Catholic? Catholicism is not Christian, and is in fact the biggest stumbling block to people accepting Christ. It's barbaric history automatically disqualifies it from being considered the true church of Christ. Catholicism has in truth left the straight and narrow a long time ago.

Catholics are not Christian? What? If you ignore the Catholic Church, then you Protestants do not have a right to exist, since that's where you came from. You can't simply ignore whatever part of the past does not suit you.

 

[mkh4JC]

Well, I'm going to answer a few more questions that weren't applied to me as well as the ones you directed towards me.

Also, I didn't know that Jesus (as) went to hell and preached to people there. What is the point of that? Don't you think everyone is too busy with all of the pain and suffering to hear anything he has to say? Did he actually pull people out of hell, or was he just telling them how they should have lived their lives?

I'll take this on first. Here's a look at a few scriptures:


'Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.' Ephesians 4: 9-10.


'And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.' Luke 16: 19-31.

Last few scriptures is here and then I'll make my point: 'Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.' Ephesians 4: 8

And here: 'And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.' Matthew 27: 52-53.

So then hell as we know it from the Christian perspective is actually at this moment in time in the center of the Earth. But before Jesus died to save man from his sins, paradise was also in the center of the earth. There was between the two areas a great gulf fixed, so that no man could travel from here to there. When Jesus ascended, he delivered those who were in the center of the Earth who were the Lord's people out of the Earth. Some of them went on to be with the Lord in the third heaven (where God is), and some of them walked among men. Hope that answers and clears up some confusion.

This is actually a non-point, because religious people both Christian and Muslim (as well as others) will attest to their lives changing because their religion gave them power to overcome sin. It depends on the person, but very often religion causes a change within someone no matter what religion you belong to.

What exactly is the Christian lifestyle supposed to be? Can someone outline that for me? When I was a Christian it was:

1) Be a good person and do good deeds for others (not specific to Christianity)
2) Don't be a drunk (some Christians drink, some don't and the Bible doesn't tell you not to)
3) Go to Church on Sundays (and Bible studies as well)
4) Read the Bible on a regular basis

Those are the main things that I lived by when I was a Christian. If you can expound on that and enlighten me as to what other virtues Christians incorporate into their lives that would help.

It is actually not a non point, as no one can live the Christian life apart from Christ. I guess the best way I can describe the Christian life to one who is not initiated is to say that we don't practice sin, we have the power to live life victorious over ALL sin. This would include even the things that sinners would seem as insignificant like lying. When scriptures say the following:

'What shall we say then? Shall we contine in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?' Romans 6: 1-2.

Or here:

'All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not, but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.' 1 John 5: 17-20.

It means exactly what it says. Jesus himself said, 'Be perfect; for your Father in heaven is perfect.' And the most perfect life you can live on this side of existance is as a Christian. With all other religious it's like, people are trying to please God and live a spiritual life in the wholly corrupted flesh, when he demands perfection. You need the Spirit of God living inside of you. Christ lived that perfect life, and when you accept him, God gives you his perfect righteousness, and grants you power over your lifestyle, so that you can live a holy, sin free life. There really is no comparison between a Christian's lifestyle and other religious lifestyles. Sure with a bit of discipline and therapy I could perhaps overcome a drug addiction. But why not come to Christ and be granted victory over that area of your life? Same with the homosexual and the lesbian. Christianity is--as I've said before--the cure for man's sinful nature.

Catholics are not Christian? What? If you ignore the Catholic Church, then you Protestants do not have a right to exist, since that's where you came from. You can't simply ignore whatever part of the past does not suit you.

Catholics were killing both Jews and Bible believing Christians in that bleak history of theirs. A church who claims to be the one and only true church of Christ would not be guilty of such barabarism, therefore Catholicism is a great deception.

 

[rpwelton]

OK, so if Christianity gives you victory over sin, then you must have victory over sin all of the time. For to say that you have victory sometimes and defeat sometimes would be a contradiction; this would imply that you are saved sometimes and not saved other times.

Do you really live a life without sin? Please tell me you are not so arrogant as to claim that. Everybody sins. Or is a sin while being a Christian really not a sin at all? I've never heard Christians say they live a sinless life; only that Jesus has taken away the sins they committed and those they will commit in the future.

 

[mkh4JC]

OK, so if Christianity gives you victory over sin, then you must have victory over sin all of the time. For to say that you have victory sometimes and defeat sometimes would be a contradiction; this would imply that you are saved sometimes and not saved other times.

Do you really live a life without sin? Please tell me you are not so arrogant as to claim that. Everybody sins. Or is a sin while being a Christian really not a sin at all? I've never heard Christians say they live a sinless life; only that Jesus has taken away the sins they committed and those they will commit in the future.

Everybody does sin, but as a Christian God fully expects you NOT to sin. The sins that Christians cannot overcome are sins like being lazy, and sins of the mind, which you can't stop. I don't mean to say that you can't sin AT ALL as a Christian, because you still have free will. What I mean to say is, you don't have to sin. You have power to exercise a spiritual will which God has given you. Something like lying for example, I just don't do. Because I know that it is an offense to God, and God has wrote his commandments on my heart. I don't lie in any circumstance.

As I said, Christianity is the cure for sin nature. You can be born into this world, fall into the muck of life, experience a variety adverse lifestyles (even things like homosexuality and lesbianism) and you can accept Christ and receive a new start, you can begin to live a holy sin free life. Though of course, you still have free will, and if you DO sin then God will discipline you (this is how much the Christian God hates sin), but the point is, you don't have to sin. Those things that previously had you bound, are now things of the past.