please help: easter celebration

[Güven]

^exactly Crayon.

I think in this difficult situation, Intentions matter...

You could go to the church , and sit in there without doing nothing.
The "ceremony" orsomething doesn't take that long I guess.
So you should just bear with it.

Allah knows your Intentions , Allah is Most Forgiving.

 

[Cabdullahi]

NOOOOOO wait! dont eat the turkey........unless its been slaughtered in an islamic way ........and what i would say is call your mother over and talk to her in a polite manner........and dont eat the turkey!

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Islam commands respect to one's parents, so the only respectful thing you could have done was to attend the family dinner. You live in America, you're surrounded with kufr all the time, so I don't think 2 hours with your family would have done to much damage.

 

[crayon]

^Actually, the authority of God is greater than that of your parents. So you must obey your parents, except when they ask you to disobey Allah. This applies whether the parents are muslim or not. So only when they ask you to do something haram does it become permissible, and in fact obligatory, on you to disobey them.

"There is no obedience to the creation in disobedience to the Creator"

 

[Dawud_uk]

sorry for the late reply but a late reply is better than no reply at all,

ok simply put you cannot go for several reasons.

first of all it is actually a matter of kufr akbar to take part in the religious celebration of the disbelievers, so xmas, easter, diwali etc are all kufr akbar to celebrate.

this is because as muslims we have to three fundemental principles we must understand here before deciding if it is allowed.

1. kufr bit taghoot.
kufr bit taghoot means declaring all systems, gods, faiths, philosophies, ways of life other than islam to be false. a taghoot is a false god, system of ideas etc. so laat was a taghoot, the trinity is a taghoot, democracy is a taghoot and everything that supports or goes towards it must be rejected.

and as muslims it is not enough to say here we only have to reject it in our heart, no our rejection is first through our limbs and then if that is not possible through the tongue and only if we are totally inable to act or speak do we say rejection in the heart is enough.

2. al wala wal bara.
another important concept, al wala is love for Allah's sake, loving what Allah loves. al bara is emnity for Allah's sake, hating and disliking what he likes.

so a muslim should try to avoid everything hated and disliked by Allah, should try to do that which is loved and liked by Allah. so which catagory does easter fall into? simple.

3. immitation of the kufr.
it is not permissable to immitate the kufr in matters distinctive to them, once again if taken too far this reaches the level of kufr akbar.

knowing these three points it is very clear easter is not permissable to you, even if it caused an argument, just talk back nicely with them, they are your parents but there is no obedience to the creation that is in disobedience to the creator.

and sister i know you are young, but i think just in case things go badly for you in the future i would talk to some muslim friends and their mothers and ask who can let you stop with them if you are ever thrown out, i hope this never happens to you, Allah willing but i have seen it many times dealing with new muslims so always have a backup plan so you are not forced into sleeping on the streets or other dangerous situations.

 

[wth1257]

I don't understand the problem. I mean you can't eat Turkey yeah but the egg hunting is a secular aspect of Easter not a religious one. As for Mass is it a sin for you to go in the Church and observe with your family? In a Catholic Mass your participation of the event as a member of the community is usually manifested in partaking of the Eucharist. Obviously you can't do this given your Islamic faith but that shouldn't be a problem. I mean if your mother is a devout Catholic she would never force you to take the Eucharist when you are obviously not in a state of grace in the eyes of the Church.

In Baghdad Muslim ulema attended Christmass Mass as a show of Iraqi unity

So I mean would they have done that if it were a sin to simply be in the building while the event was occuring?

 

[wth1257]

sorry for the late reply but a late reply is better than no reply at all,

ok simply put you cannot go for several reasons.

first of all it is actually a matter of kufr akbar to take part in the religious celebration of the disbelievers, so xmas, easter, diwali etc are all kufr akbar to celebrate.

this is because as muslims we have to three fundemental principles we must understand here before deciding if it is allowed.

1. kufr bit taghoot.
kufr bit taghoot means declaring all systems, gods, faiths, philosophies, ways of life other than islam to be false. a taghoot is a false god, system of ideas etc. so laat was a taghoot, the trinity is a taghoot, democracy is a taghoot and everything that supports or goes towards it must be rejected.

and as muslims it is not enough to say here we only have to reject it in our heart, no our rejection is first through our limbs and then if that is not possible through the tongue and only if we are totally inable to act or speak do we say rejection in the heart is enough.

2. al wala wal bara.
another important concept, al wala is love for Allah's sake, loving what Allah loves. al bara is emnity for Allah's sake, hating and disliking what he likes.

so a muslim should try to avoid everything hated and disliked by Allah, should try to do that which is loved and liked by Allah. so which catagory does easter fall into? simple.

3. immitation of the kufr.
it is not permissable to immitate the kufr in matters distinctive to them, once again if taken too far this reaches the level of kufr akbar.

knowing these three points it is very clear easter is not permissable to you, even if it caused an argument, just talk back nicely with them, they are your parents but there is no obedience to the creation that is in disobedience to the creator.

and sister i know you are young, but i think just in case things go badly for you in the future i would talk to some muslim friends and their mothers and ask who can let you stop with them if you are ever thrown out, i hope this never happens to you, Allah willing but i have seen it many times dealing with new muslims so always have a backup plan so you are not forced into sleeping on the streets or other dangerous situations.

I understand what you are saying but I don't know if it applies (and forgive me, I obviously don't know this as well as you all, arguing is how I understand a point). I don't see how being in a Church immitates Kufir. For example when the Ulema went into the Hagia Sophia to pronounce the Shahadah and convert it to a Mosque he was not immitating Kufir by entering the Church when it was still a Church. If it were raining and a Muslim dashed into the first ublic building they saw, which happened to be a Church while a Mass was being celebrated, they would not be immitating Kufir would they? If these two assumptions are correct (and I'm not saying they are, I could be totally off) then it would follow that being in a Church is perhapse a necessary but not sufficient constitutive action in immitating Kufir. It is constitutive of certian actions which do immitate Kufir but not in itself sufficient to become immitation.

I mean I don't see how simply observing a Mass is immitation. I understand joining in the prayers or taking communion but simply being in the building with one's family while a religious celebration is occuring? I mean if she just sits there or stands in the back and does not take communion it would be very clear that she was not participating in the events.

 

[جوري]

^^ umar ibn ilhtab RA accepted an invitation to the church of the holy sepulcher, but declined the invitation to pray there not because it is haram but because he didn't want Muslims to think it a common practice to take over churches..
be that as it may, that is different than participating in an Easter egg hunt, I fear it isn't even a 'people of the book practice' it is purely pagan, coinciding with 'sham en neseem' and the nwruz (spring solstice) to be honest I am not sure how much of Christianity is actually monotheistic in origin...

it is a tough call, I am not sure that even Christians should participate in such pagan practices as there is no religious meaning to them...

 

[wth1257]

^^ umar ibn ilhtab RA accepted an invitation to the church of the holy sepulcher, but declined the invitation to pray there not because it is haram but because he didn't want Muslims to think it a common practice to take over churches..
be that as it may, that is different than participating in an Easter egg hunt, I fear it isn't even a 'people of the book practice' it is purely pagan, coinciding with 'sham en neseem' and the nwruz (spring solstice) to be honest I am not sure how much of Christianity is actually monotheistic in origin...

it is a tough call, I am not sure that even Christians should participate in such pagan practices as there is no religious meaning to them...

How is the easter egg hunt pagan?

 

[جوري]

How is the easter egg hunt pagan?

I just told you, that is what folks did and continue to do for 'sham en neseem', the better question should actually be, how is an egg hunt monotheistic-- where in any of the Abrahamic religions is this described or enforced or even given the nod of approval?

peace

 

[wth1257]

I just told you, that is what folks did and continue to do for 'sham en neseem', the better question should actually be, how is an egg hunt monotheistic-- where in any of the Abrahamic religions is this described or enforced or even given the nod of approval?

peace

wow, what do you know. I also found this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_egg#Origin_and_folklore


Sorry I missed it the first time. I just skimmed your post to be honest. I'm doing this kind of late at night, while doing homework :embarrass

 

[جوري]

You can read more about it here.. but I see you already have a thread on nowruz as I recommended above..

Egypt marks Sham el Naseem
The Egyptian people mark today Sham el Naseem feast, Spring Festival. Families went out to gardens and national parks since the early morning to celebrate this day.

The feast of Sham al-Naseem is one of the Pharaonic feasts. It is celebrated by all Egyptians, Muslims and Christians.

Pharaonic feasts were related to the astrological phenomena and their relation to nature and life. They celebrated the Spring Feast on a date determined by the Spring equinox. On that day, night and day are equal when the sun rises over Aries. It is on the 25th of Barmehat. It says in their holy book that they thought that this day marked the beginning of creation.



The Pharaohs called this feast the name of (Shamus Feast) which means the life resurrection. Then the name changed through time especially in the Coptic Age to the name (Sham). Then the word Naseem was added to refer to the arrival of spring.


The Pharaohs began to celebrate this feast officially on 2700 B.C by the ends of the Third Pharaoh dynasty. However, some historians claim that it was known in the Heliopolis feasts and at the time of sun worship.


It was, then, was adopted by the Christians. When Christianity entered Egypt, the feast accompanied the ancient Egyptians feast. It was celebrated the day after Easter. The Pharaohs were celebrating the first night of Sham al-Naseem with religious celebrations. With the sunrise, Sham -al-Naseem turned into a public feast in which all the people participated, even the Pharaoh and the highest officials.


Sham al-Naseem had special food, customs, and traditions which became characteristic of the celebration of the feast itself as it moved through different ages to recent time. Examples of the traditional food of this feast are like eggs, salted fish, onions, and lettuce. Many people both East and West, took many of the features of the original celebrations of Sham al-Naseem into their own spring festivities.



http://www.sis.gov.eg/En/EgyptOnline/Culture/000001/0203000000000000000614.htm

I can tell you now that I grew up coloring eggs to join in the pagan festivities and my father used to be angry but he never forbade me from coloring eggs, he used to tell me that I am doing his health harm with the colors as a deterrent.. when I came in the U.S I naturally thought they too had sham en neseem not knowing at all that it held a different meaning for them..

most of these holidays are borrowed. Jesus never partook in egg coloring or hunting and neither did any other messenger!

peace

 

[wth1257]

You can read more about it here.. but I see you already have a thread on nowruz as I recommended above..

Egypt marks Sham el Naseem
The Egyptian people mark today Sham el Naseem feast, Spring Festival. Families went out to gardens and national parks since the early morning to celebrate this day.

The feast of Sham al-Naseem is one of the Pharaonic feasts. It is celebrated by all Egyptians, Muslims and Christians.

Pharaonic feasts were related to the astrological phenomena and their relation to nature and life. They celebrated the Spring Feast on a date determined by the Spring equinox. On that day, night and day are equal when the sun rises over Aries. It is on the 25th of Barmehat. It says in their holy book that they thought that this day marked the beginning of creation.



The Pharaohs called this feast the name of (Shamus Feast) which means the life resurrection. Then the name changed through time especially in the Coptic Age to the name (Sham). Then the word Naseem was added to refer to the arrival of spring.


The Pharaohs began to celebrate this feast officially on 2700 B.C by the ends of the Third Pharaoh dynasty. However, some historians claim that it was known in the Heliopolis feasts and at the time of sun worship.


It was, then, was adopted by the Christians. When Christianity entered Egypt, the feast accompanied the ancient Egyptians feast. It was celebrated the day after Easter. The Pharaohs were celebrating the first night of Sham al-Naseem with religious celebrations. With the sunrise, Sham -al-Naseem turned into a public feast in which all the people participated, even the Pharaoh and the highest officials.


Sham al-Naseem had special food, customs, and traditions which became characteristic of the celebration of the feast itself as it moved through different ages to recent time. Examples of the traditional food of this feast are like eggs, salted fish, onions, and lettuce. Many people both East and West, took many of the features of the original celebrations of Sham al-Naseem into their own spring festivities.



http://www.sis.gov.eg/En/EgyptOnline/Culture/000001/0203000000000000000614.htm

I can tell you now that I grew up coloring eggs to join in the pagan festivities and my father used to be angry but he never forbade me from coloring eggs, he used to tell me that I am doing his health harm with the colors as a deterrent.. when I came in the U.S I naturally thought they too had sham en neseem not knowing at all that it held a different meaning for them..

most of these holidays are borrowed. Jesus never partook in egg coloring or hunting and neither did any other messenger!

peace

hm, interesting.

I guess I always assumed the egg hunt was some Halmark invention like Mother's Day.

 

[جوري]

hm, interesting.

I guess I always assumed the egg hunt was some Halmark invention like Mother's Day.

no no for some reason people who spread Christianity didn't want to make the 'heathens' feel like they were giving up their traditions and age old wisdom so they incorporated all that stuff and gave it christian meaning. but it has no meaning least of which to Jesus himself whom they are allegedly celebrating with this..

I was guilty of this but I was no more than 4 or 5 yrs of age and my mother country for some reason was hammering in nationalism and these pagan rituals.. al7mdlilah that I now know better.. I know it seems harmless and my father was never the sort to force anything on us because he felt it might do the opposite, I really appreciate his wisdom given that I don't have that sort of resolve with my nieces and nephews..
but to get back to the topic.. I think the OP should ask her mother what this egg hunts signifies.. there is certainly no religious theme in it and all that candy will rot your teeth....

Allah swt knows best

peace

 

[Danah]

^ oh interesting! I didn't know that Sham annaseem in Egypt has a relation with Easter celebration

I just read here that its the next day after the Easter in Egypt
http://www.islamway.com/?iw_s=Article&iw_a=view&article_id=695

 

[Civilsed]

Easter is a pagen festival called ishtar it revolves arourd fertility hence the egg. Just educate them that this has nothing to do with Christiandom.

A bit like xmas where to you think the mistletoe comes in. Sunday, Newyear, etc... etc...

 

[burdenofbeing]

I think your mom thinks this is a "phase you are going through" and you'll eventually be back. and probably that's why she's keen on you not being separated too much.

What you are asked to do is not haraam. you can go to church, pick eggs, gather round with your family. your intent is pleasing your family, nothing wrong there. don't eat haram food and you're ok.

 

[Dawud_uk]

I think your mom thinks this is a "phase you are going through" and you'll eventually be back. and probably that's why she's keen on you not being separated too much.

What you are asked to do is not haraam. you can go to church, pick eggs, gather round with your family. your intent is pleasing your family, nothing wrong there. don't eat haram food and you're ok.

i am kinda curious what you base your ruling on?

it is forbidden to take part in any none islamic festivals, this includes easter.

it is forbidden to immitate the kufr, do you have any scholars to back up what you are saying or are you out of a good intention just giving naseehah without the knowledge to back it up?

 

[burdenofbeing]

I'm stating my opinion, I think I could find scholars to back me up. Imitating kufr is forbidden. As long as people don't think you are a kafir from your actions, imitation is permissable. If it were me, I would merely wear a t-shirt that says, I'm actually a muslim, and maybe wear a topi, then go with the flow.

 

[Dawud_uk]

I'm stating my opinion, I think I could find scholars to back me up. Imitating kufr is forbidden. As long as people don't think you are a kafir from your actions, imitation is permissable. If it were me, I would merely wear a t-shirt that says, I'm actually a muslim, and maybe wear a topi, then go with the flow.

you can find scholars who say it is permissable to eat food with haram ingredients as long as not over 5% of the total, this is rubish of-course as any mainstream muslim could explain but still some scholars say it.

other scholars say it is allowed to vote and take part in the democratic system,
this this is also trash and can be proved to be incorrect.

the problem is Allah swt asked us in the Quran to first reject taghoot then believe in Allah, how is that rejection of taghoot shown in our actions if we take part in kufr?

imam shafi said to even give an egg to the fire worshippers on their day of worship is kufr, this is because it shows you are pleased with their celebration, pleased with their disbelief and so you negate your islam through your actions.

how much worse than this to not just take and recieve gifts but to take part in the whole day?