Polygamy among British Muslims

[Muezzin]

I've made my own personal stance on polygamy clear: It ain't for me, and unless you happen to be the next best thing to the Prophet (SAW), it probably ain't for you either. But hey, more power to you if you want double the stress.

On the other hand, I also believe in loyalty. I don't know if that particular social construct I labour under is a 'superficial, unreasonable and bestial emotion' as coined by my learned friend Mr KAding, but hey, it's kinda nice. The point is, if some people can't control their urges, I'd rather they married multiple spouses than commit adultery.

Of course, you couple this with my above scepticism of polygamy in the vast majority of cases, and you come to this conclusion:

Only marry the person you are really willing to loyally spend the rest of your life with.

If you can't decide, don't marry in the first place. Better that than to make the biggest mistake of your entire life, along with a boatload of other unfaithful or abusive partners and divorcees.

...And don't have kids unless you're a stable enough team to raise them.

 

[Al-Zaara]

...

Basically, that's the way I argument aswell. For the most part I agree with you. Of course for my own self it is not religiously or according to my morals allowed.

 

[nocturne]

As an muslim man, i am uncomfortable with the idea of having more than one wife.

I do see the need for men to have more than one wife especially in the times of Prophet, when they were plenty of slaves and widowed women. The times have changed today, in today's context outside the arab society, it is still a taboo to have more than one wife.

How many of you are comfortable with having more than one partner?

 

[Uthman]

How many of you are comfortable with having more than one partner?

Certainly not me! Not that I'm thinking about marriage at this stage anyway.

In addition to the previous points made, I would point out that most women in this day and age would probably not be happy to share their husband with another woman whereas that was not necessarily the case at the time of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam).

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Err. With all due respect, but this is ridiculous. Male pride? This male pride should make it impossible to share a partner supposedly? I am sorry, but I don't think it makes any sense to base my moral code on superficial, unreasonable and bestial emotions of "pride" and "honor".

yeah thats was a bad word for it i admit. i didnt mean the type of pride that people choose to have, i meant the type of pride that is naturally inherent...i.e when this pride is threaded i guess, he'll be naturally on the defensive. i don't see what so wrong with that?

Well, a majority of men probably work that way, yes. But that masculine and macho behavior is nothing to be proud of!

why not? its only natural to feel jealous that his wife is looking at another girl. his defense stems from what is naturally inherent in him, as mentioned above... i dont get what so wring with that.

Maybe after a divorce or some conflict you can do a DNA test to figure it out if y,ou really insist.

why should that all happen when simpler and more practice methods are available....and also, what's the kid gna say when people ask him/her who their dad is..."one of those men"

 

[Mr. Baldy]

I have no real problem with polygamy, as long as it is all voluntary and as long as men and women are equal by law, so that one woman can also have several men.

I don't know if anyones touched on this, but there is a ver fundemental flaw. Men are naturally the dominant sex. One woman with two men are the ingredients for trouble. Who will be the head of the family? A family needs a head to keep everyone in check, and if the two men get into a fight, how will the woman cope and break it up? Anyway you look at it, it just can't work!

 

[Green_shoes]

To be honest i dont trust men much so i wouldn't trust them with more than one Wife
i certainly wouldnt want a husband who wants another wife, no thanks

 

[Al-Zaara]

I don't know if anyones touched on this, but there is a ver fundemental flaw. Men are naturally the dominant sex. One woman with two men are the ingredients for trouble. Who will be the head of the family? A family needs a head to keep everyone in check, and if the two men get into a fight, how will the woman cope and break it up? Anyway you look at it, it just can't work!

Fundamental? Not quite. According to many scientists there have been civilizations that had been some forms of gyneocentric and for example in old African tribes the women or mothers tended to be the dominant sex.

It's usually the other way around said; two women are the ingredients for trouble in a relationship.

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

^ According to Islaam sis, the husband is the head of the household. So yes, I would say it is quite fundamental, at least to Muslims.

الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاء بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَبِمَا أَنفَقُواْ مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللّهُ

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.)..."
[an-Nisaa: 34]

Ibn Katheer says, "The man is in charge (qayyim) of the woman, i.e. he is the one in-charge of her, her chief, the one having authority over her and the one who corrects her if she inclines away from that which is correct."
[Tafseerul-Qur'aanil-'Adheem (1/194)]

The Messenger of Allaah (salAllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, "Every soul from the children of Aadam is a master; so the man is the master of his family, and the woman is the mistress of her household."
[Saheeh al-Jaami' as-Sagheer]

Allaah Knows best.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

^ ukhtee, could you please expand on that.... i mean in which way is he the head of the house hold...just in the sense of finance, or :? cos read the following (from ibn katheer also)

We, the people of Quraysh, used to have authority over our women. But when we came to live with the Ansar, we noticed that the Ansari women had the upper hand over their men, so our women started acquiring the habits of the Ansari women.

so ummm could there be 2 sides of the coin

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

^ ukhtee, could you please expand on that.... i mean in which way is he the head of the house hold...just in the sense of finance, or :? cos read the following (from ibn katheer also)

so ummm could there be 2 sides of the coin

Well, I can't expand on it, as I do not have the knowledge to do so. But this is how Ibn Katheer interpreted a similar ayah:

وَلِلرِّجَالِ عَلَيْهِنَّ دَرَجَةٌ

" ...but men have a degree over them (i.e. women)..."
[al-Baqarah: 228]

Ibn Katheer said, "Meaning: in excellence; in the nature given to them; in manners; in status; in the obedience due to them; in their spending and taking care of the (women's) welfare..."
[Tafseerul-Qur'aanil-'Adheem (1/271)]


And how other 'Ulamaa have interpreted the earlier ayah:

'Abdur-Rahmaan as-Sa'dee said, "That is due to the excellence of men over women, and the eminence which they have been given over them. So the pre-eminence which they have been given over the women is from many aspects: holding positions of leadership and authority is particular to men, likewise Prophethood and Messengership. They are also particularised by many acts of worship such as jihaad, the eids and Jum'ah prayers... Likewise tehy are particularised with having to spend upon their wives, and indeed spending in many ways which are particular to the men - which distinguish them from women. So perhaps this is the reason for His saying: وَبِمَا أَنفَقُواْ "...due to the wealth that they spend..." - and exactly what they spend is not stated to indicate the spending referred to is general. So from all this it is known that the man is liek a governer and master of his wife, and she is with him like a captive. So his role is to take care of that which Allaah has placed him in-charge of, and her role is to be obedient to her Lord and to obey her husband."
[Tayseerul-Kareemir-Rahmaan (1/344)]

Al-Qaasimee said, "الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاء 'The men have authority (qawwaamoon) over women' - qawwaamoon is the plural of qawwaam. Qawwaam is the one who is responsible for taking care of their welfare, managing their affairs and disciplining them. That is, they are in-charge of and are to take care of their manners and behaviour of women; ordering them and forbidding them, just as the ruler is resonsible for his subjects. This is due to two reasons: (i) Due to the nature which Allaah gave them, and (ii) due to the role which they carry out.

The first is indicated by the Saying of Allaah:

بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ
"Due to the excellence which Allaah has given to the man over the woman."
[an-Nisaa': 34]

This refers to the relation between the men and women, and means that the men have a position of dominance over them due to the superiority which Allaah has given to the men over the women."
[Mahaasinut-Ta'weel (abridged) (5/130)]

 

[Intisar]

[/COLOR]
Fundamental? Not quite. According to many scientists there have been civilizations that had been some forms of gyneocentric and for example in old African tribes the women or mothers tended to be the dominant sex.

It's usually the other way around said; two women are the ingredients for trouble in a relationship.

You're right, in Western African tribes (some even Muslim subhanAllaah) the men would adorn themselves in make-up and paint and stand in a long line where the woman would choose the husband, possibly more than one if she wanted.

She was the head of the household, and she would call on her husband to do the manly duties (gather the fire wood, hunt, gather etc.) basically ordering him around and then she'd go on with the womanly duties (cooking, cleaning, taking cares of the kids etc.). So yes, in some cultures the roles are actually reversed and the females are the dominant sex but it's not completely devoid of what the natural roles of the sexes are.

But like Faizah said, in Islam the man is the head of household.

 

[Al-Zaara]

I didn't speak for Islam, but from a more non-religious view. Islam is also what the Shariah and hadiths say, meaning you will always find Arabic/Middle Eastern culture in it. So there are cultural differences that lean the whole religion to one side. And then there is God who sets the rules, which religious people of course follow.


Doesn't mean there is a 'universal' "fundamental flaw", if one religion says it, for example.
Religious people of course follow, but the non religious do not. So to find a argument against it (polyganeous marriages) without religion or cultural bounds seems to be difficult.

 

[youngsister]

How expensive would it be to treat them fairly, you would have to earn quite a bit of money, and i am not talking about anything under 30k if you live in the UK of course.

Some men need to start looking after their wife and actually provide like they are meant to before running to get another one.

However if you cant control yourself and feel you will fail into fitnah and she is ok with it then subxnallah you do have the option.

 

[YusufNoor]

^ ukhtee, could you please expand on that.... i mean in which way is he the head of the house hold...just in the sense of finance, or :? cos read the following (from ibn katheer also)

We, the people of Quraysh, used to have authority over our women. But when we came to live with the Ansar, we noticed that the Ansari women had the upper hand over their men, so our women started acquiring the habits of the Ansari women.

so ummm could there be 2 sides of the coin

forgive my belated response to this, but i knew as soon as i saw it that some clarification was needed. i knew the hadeeth, but not it's location, but i have indeed found it [it is a HUGE piece of the Seerah, which contributes to understanding both the Qur'an and the Shariah]. and in fact, Quran was revealed about part of this incident; from Muslim Book 009, Number 3511: :

Ibn 'Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) reported. I had always been anxious to ask 'Umar (Allah be pleased with him) about the two ladies amongst the wives of Allah's Prophet (may peace be upon Lim) about whom Allah, the Exalted, said:" If you both turn in repentance to Allah, then indeed your hearts are inclined (to this)" (Ixvi. 4), until 'Umar (Allah be pleased with him) set out for Hajj and I also went along with him. And as we were going along a path, 'Umar (Allah be pleased with hiyn) went aside and I also went aside with him with a jug (of water). He answered the call of nature, and then came to me and I poured water over his hands and he performed ablution I said: Commander of the Faithful, who are the two ladies amongst the wives of Allah's Prophet (may peace be upon him) about whom Allah, the Exalted and Majestic, said: 'If you both turn to Allah in repentance, then indeed your heart are inclined to it"? 'Umar (Allah he pleased with him) said: How strange is it for you, Ibn 'Abbas! (Zuhri said: By Allah, he disliked what he asked about, but did not keep it a secret.) He ('Umar) said: They are Hafsa and 'A'isha; and he then began to narrate the hadith and said: We were such people among the Quraish who dominated women, and as we reached Medina we found there people who were dominated by their women, and our women began to learn (the habits) of their women. He further said: And my house was situated in the suburb of Aledina in the tribe of Banu Umayya b. Zaid. One day I became angry with my wife and she retorted upon me. I did not like that she should retort upon me. She said: You disapprove of my retorting upon you By Allah, the wives of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) retort upon him, and one of them detaches herself from him for the day until the night. So I ('Umar) went out and visited Hafsa and said: Do you retort upon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? She said: Yes. I said; Does any one of you detach herself from him from the day to the night? She said: Yes. He said: She who did like it amongst you in fact failed and incurred loss. Does everyone amongst you not fear the wrath of Allah upon her due to the wrath of His Messenger (may peace be upon him), and (as a result thereof) she may perish? So do not retort upon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and do not ask him for anything, but ask me that which you desire, (and the frank behaviour) of your companion may not mislead you, if she is more graceful and is dearer to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) than you (meaning 'A'isha) (Allah be pleased with her).

He (Hadrat 'Umar further) said: I had a compalaion from the Ansar and, we used to remain in the company of the Messenger (may peace be upon him) turn by turn. He remained there for a day while I remained there on the other day, and he brought me the news about the revelation and other (matter), and I brought him (the news) like this. And we discussed that the Ghassanids were shoeing the horses in order to attack us. Id y companion once attended (the Apostle). and then came to me at night and knocked at my door and called me, and I came out to him, and he said: A matter of great importance has happened. I said: What is that? Have the Ghassanids come? He said: No, but even more serious and more significant than that: the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) has divorced his wives. I said: Hafsa has failed and has incurred loss. and I feared that it would happen. When it was dawn I observed the dawn prayer and dressed myself, and then came there (in the house of the Holy Prophet) and visited Hafsa, and she was weeping. I said: Has Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) divorced you (all)? She said: I do not know. He has, however, separated himself in his attic. I came to a black servant and said to him: Seek permission for 'Umar. He went in and then came to me and said: I made mention of you to him, but he kept quiet. I then went to the pulpit and sat there, and there was a group of people sitting by it and some of then were weeping. I sat there for some time, until I was overpowered (by that very idea) which was in my mind. I then came back to the boy and said to him: Seek permission for Umar. He went in and came to me and said: I made mention of you to him but he kept quiet. I was about to turn back when the boy called me and said: Go in; permission has been granted to you. I went in and greeted Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and he was reclining against the couch of mat and it had left its marks upon his side. I said: Messenger of Allah, have you divorced your wives? He raised his head towards me and said: No. I said: Allah is the Greatest. Messenger of Allah, I wish if you had seen how we the people of Quraish had domination over women but when we came to Medina we found people whom their women dominated. So our women began to learn from their women. One day I became angry with my wife and she began to retort upon me. I did not approve that she should retort upon me. She said: You do not like that I should retort upon you, but, by Allah. the wives of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) retort upon him and any one of them separates herself from him for a day until night. I said: He who did that amongst them in fact failed and incurred loss. Does any of them feel sate from the wrath of Allahupon her due to the wrath of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and she has certainly perished. Allah's Messtnger (may peace be upon him) smiled, I said: Messenger of Allah, I visited Hafsa and said: (The behaviour) of your companion ('A'isha) may not mislead you, If she is more graceful than you and is dearer to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) than you.

Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled for the second time. I said: Allah's Messenger, way I talk to you about agreeable things? He said: Yes. I sat down and lifted my head (to see things) in the house and, by Allah, I did not see anything significant besides three hides. I said: Messenger of Allah, supplicate the Lord that He should make (life) prosperous for your Ummah as He has made plentiful for the people of Persia and Rome (in spite of the fact) that they do no, worship Allah, the Exalted and Majestic, whereupon he (Allah's Messenger) sat up an I then said: Ibn Khattab, do you doubt that they are a nation whom their nice things have been given immediately in the life of this world. I said: Allah's Messenger! seek pardon for me. And he (Allah's Messenger) had taken an oath that he would not visit them for a month due to extreme annoyance with them until Allah showed His displeasure to him (Allah's Messenger). Zuhri said: 'Urwa informed me that 'A'Isha (Allah be pleased with her) said: When twenty-nine nights were over, Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) visited me, and he began (his visit) with me. I said: Messenger of Allah, you had taken an oath that you would not visit us for a month, while you have visited after I have counted only twenty-nine (nights). Thereupon he said: The month may also be of twenty-nine (days). He then said: 'A'isha, I am going to talk to you about a matter, and you should not be hasty in it (and do not give your final decision) until you have consulted your parents. He then recited this verse to me:" O Prophet, say to your wives" till he reached" mighty reward" (xxxiii. 28). 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) said: By Allah, he knew that my parents would not allow me to separate from him. I said: Is there any need to consult my parents in this matter? I in fact choose Allah and His Messenger (may peace be upon him) and the abode in the Hereafter. Ma'mar said: Ayyub reported to me that 'A'isha said: Don't inform your wives that I have chosen you, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Verily Allah has sent me as a conveyer of message, and He has not sent me as a source of hardship (to others). Qatada said:" Saghat qulubukum" means" Your hearts have inclined."


so we see that the learned behavior was NOT acceptable and DID cause Rasulullah, Salla Allahu Alaihe wa Salaam, to separate himself from his wives for a whole month! AND after such separation, all of the Prophet's wives, even Aisha(RA), the his most beloved wife was given the option of divorce.

quoting youngsister:

How expensive would it be to treat them fairly, you would have to earn quite a bit of money, and i am not talking about anything under 30k if you live in the UK of course.

and it means NOT having a 2nd (or 3rd) wife who is on welfare and having the government support her instead of yourself!

Some men need to start looking after their wife and actually provide like they are meant to before running to get another one.

Allahu Akbar!

However if you cant control yourself and feel you will fail into fitnah and she is ok with it then subxnallah you do have the option.

MashAllah, little sister is wise indeed!

i like the way that Maulana Imran Hosein pust it:

if you take a 2nd wife, you give up "your bed" forever and you must now alternate days between each wife. and whatever problems you may have had with the 1st, expect them to be doubled when you have 2 wives!

 

[symori]

that is why polygamy is only for those who is capable,in and out to handle 2 wives or more.nobody claim polygamy is easy. Even monogamous marriage receive bad feedback from modern couples with bundles of divorce cases...