Pope Seen Criticizing Islam

[~Stranger~]

does anyoen know why did he say that or was it out of the blue??

 

[InToTheRain]

When I heard what the Pope said about Mohammad(SAW) it was depressing. To think the a man whom all christians have respect for, I man of religion, say such a thing just shows how ignorant people are about Islam.

However its nice to know not all christians see this way. The Pope should apologise if he truly wants peace and given his influence he should also word his opinions carefully.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

25: 9. See how they coin similitudes for you (O Muhammad

), so they have gone astray, and they cannot find a (Right) Path.

43: 82. Glorified be the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne! Exalted be He from all that they ascribe (to Him).

43: 83. So leave them (alone) to speak nonsense and play until they meet the Day of theirs, which they have been promised.

 

[KAding]

Interesting comment.

I was somewhat cynical, I apologize for that.

Sadly, I think you do believe it to be true.

Yes, unfortunately I would not be suprised. The cartoon row has shown me it probably is true?

I hope you have seen enough of us to have some awareness that would not be an action justified by our Beliefs.

In no way do I believe Muslims in general support such rioting. But to be honest, I can't say whether Islam does or does not justify it. I am not knowledgable enough to say. All I can say is that it is my impression that Islam is serious about defending itself, but I doubt it allows such 'private initiative' on this matter.

Yes, we do have our share of people that tend to use any issue as an excuse to act with violence. But, keep in mind those who act in that manner would do so no matter what religious belief they followed. They act on their own and from their own emotions, not out of love of Allah(swt) and not out of Islamic belief.

Sorry. I don't believe that. I believe those who are now outraged are so outraged exactly because they love Allah so much and feel a need to defend him.

 

[Keltoi]

I found it odd that the Pope decided to quote a statement from the 14th century. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

 

[therebbe]

we never force anyone to convert to islam

I believe when Lavi made his statement that many of you bashed him for, he was refering to the hypocrisy of a Christian critisizing Islam for spreading by the sword.

1. Holocaust 6 millions jews were killed maybe more

True.

2. People cannot become jew or convert to jewish religion claimed by some jewish scholars

Untrue. It just takes about a year.

3. Jews have been attacked and killed in almost every single land they lived in.

True. Part of G-d's test of our faith.

4. Jewish religion came before islam and christianity when christinaity came many jews had converted to christianity then islam came many jews had converted to islam.

Not very true.

5. Muslims or christians dont convert to Judaism.

Completly untrue. There are Muslim converts to Judaism in My Shul!

6. There are not alot of jewish scholars going around the world teaching about the jewish religion

That is because we do not spread our thoughts. All we spread is what the Torah says for gentiles(nonjews) to do like the seven laws. If you wish to convert you must find us.


But we are way off topic. laying:

 

[doodlebug]

"Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul," added the pontiff in his own words.


Did the Vatican ever apologize for the hundreds of years of ordering little boys to be castrated for the sake of art since their voice would sound higher when they sang?:rollseyes

 

[doodlebug]

In November of 1095, Pope Urban II initiated the first European attempt at colonizing the Muslim world - known in the West as the Crusades - by drawing this fateful picture:
For you must hasten to carry aid to your brethren dwelling in the East, who need your help, which they have often asked. For the Turks, a Persian people, have attacked them I exhort you with earnest prayer - not I, but God - that, as heralds of Christ, you urge men by frequent exhortation, men of all ranks, knights as well as foot soldiers, rich as well as poor, to hasten to exterminate this vile race from the lands of your brethren Christ commands it. And if those who set out thither should lose their lives on the way by land, or in crossing the sea, or in fighting the pagans, their sins shall be remitted. Oh what a disgrace, if a race so despised, base, and the instrument of demons, should so overcome a people endowed with faith in the all-powerful God, and resplendent with the name of Christ. Let those who have been accustomed to make private war against the faithful carry on to a successful issue a war against the infidels. Let those who for a long time have been robbers now become soldiers of Christ. Let those who fought against brothers and relatives now fight against these barbarians. Let them zealously undertake the journey under the guidance of the Lord. [15]

http://www.crusades.org/popecall.htm

 

[I R Paki]

Shows he has little understanding of Islam.

 

[Woodrow]

Shows he has little understanding of Islam.

Excellant summation of all that has been said in this thread.

 

[I R Paki]

Thought Id post it anyway. We are putting down our opinions right?

 

[Woodrow]

Thought Id post it anyway. We are putting down our opinions right?

It was an excellent observation. You had summerized what the whole issue is really about.

 

[Rou]

whatever his understanding the damage has been done and the ripples will worsen not fade in this one...

i read what he said and the context of how he said it i have read his speech and there was no need whatsoever for that quote and once he had said it he did not refer to it as being an untrue view of islam he should have stated clearly that this quote was made but is a total incorrect view of islam.

now the problem is those who will argue about this majority of christians who follow him and the other ones who are just ignorant just say he was right and why should he apolgise there ignorance just makes the wound deeper...

look at the AOL vote on wether he should apolgise....almost 68% say he shudnt this but proves ignorance...

a colluge at work started the conversation with me in which stated that he (pope) did not mean it as an insult!! why all the uproar?

i tried to explain...

at which point i was told that the pope stated that this was when muhammed was weak and not in power?

now to those who have read the speech you will see what my colluge was trying to say...and also that this makes no sense....

they see everything but the truth...which public figure who talks to millions of muslims has stated anything about christians?? as a religon or judaisem?

the religon is left out of it but seems constantly islam is attacked and then where left with oh why u getting mad!??

ignorance...

and to my brothers and sisters there is no way out of this as they will refuse to understand it is stated that they will not understand and its clear they dont apart from a few...majority beleive there was no insult in the popes words...

it but only proves the clarity of islams path...

slap any man in the face and he will get mad...im sure the pope is aware of this....his statment was no mistake...

 

[glo]

In November of 1095, Pope Urban II initiated the first European attempt at colonizing the Muslim world - known in the West as the Crusades - by drawing this fateful picture:
For you must hasten to carry aid to your brethren dwelling in the East, who need your help, which they have often asked. For the Turks, a Persian people, have attacked them I exhort you with earnest prayer - not I, but God - that, as heralds of Christ, you urge men by frequent exhortation, men of all ranks, knights as well as foot soldiers, rich as well as poor, to hasten to exterminate this vile race from the lands of your brethren Christ commands it. And if those who set out thither should lose their lives on the way by land, or in crossing the sea, or in fighting the pagans, their sins shall be remitted. Oh what a disgrace, if a race so despised, base, and the instrument of demons, should so overcome a people endowed with faith in the all-powerful God, and resplendent with the name of Christ. Let those who have been accustomed to make private war against the faithful carry on to a successful issue a war against the infidels. Let those who for a long time have been robbers now become soldiers of Christ. Let those who fought against brothers and relatives now fight against these barbarians. Let them zealously undertake the journey under the guidance of the Lord. [15]

http://www.crusades.org/popecall.htm

Ex-smokers and ex-drinkers always condemn the loudest. The same is often the case for apostates.
Speak to ex-Muslims, ex-Christians and ex-atheists, and they will condemn their previous beliefs more than anybody else (and usually they have good reasons, such as personal hurts and damage)

Doodlebug, I don't know much about Catholicism. I am sure that what you are saying is correct, but for the sake of mutual understanding, inter-faith peace and continued harmony on this board I would implore you not to widen the rift between the faiths by highlighting wrongs committed in the dark past.

Perhaps we should focus on the problems of the present times, and how we can peacefully resolve them.
Not, by adding to the anger and tension, I am sure.

I hope you take this post as it is indended - in a peaceful and caring way.

God bless you.

 

[doodlebug]

Ex-smokers and ex-drinkers always condemn the loudest. The same is often the case for apostates.
Speak to ex-Muslims, ex-Christians and ex-atheists, and they will condemn their previous beliefs more than anybody else (and usually they have good reasons, such as personal hurts and damage)

Actually when I was Catholic I condemned the Crusades just as loud. Not change whatsoever.

Doodlebug, I don't know much about Catholicism. I am sure that what you are saying is correct, but for the sake of mutual understanding, inter-faith peace and continued harmony on this board I would implore you not to widen the rift between the faiths by highlighting wrongs committed in the dark past.

Well I think the Pope should do the same. And he's waaaaaaaaaaaay more of an authority figure than I am.

 

[glo]

Actually when I was Catholic I condemned the Crusades just as loud. Not change whatsoever.

I agree, doodlebug.
I am ashamed of the crusades, and I condemn them just as you do.

Well I think the Pope should do the same. And he's waaaaaaaaaaaay more of an authority figure than I am.

I just heard on the radio that the Pope has made a apology. Do you know any more about it? I will have to go and check ...

Peace

 

[Jayda]

The Holy Father apologized today that Muslims were offended by his speech...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a8Q7cdIKoNEg&refer=home

im going to go... cuidados

 

[Rou]

the pope has apolgised and that is what was asked for that should be the end of it for us indeed the ripples of what has been said will affect muslims and non-muslims alike but we asked for an apology and it came end of...

if anything it taught me that many followers of the pope are willing to protect his words even with lies and that only shows me ignorance the speed of the apology however does matter and it was made within the time it took USA and UK to stop the attack on lebanon so....

let us see what the future brings...

may allah give us and others the strength to endure...

 

[blunderbus]

There have been violent attacks on Churches in the ME because of the Pope's comments. This is beginning to be a pattern. Some non-muslim says or writes or draws something that offends Muslims and violence and bloodshed is the response. (Danish cartoons, Rushdie, Van Gogh, etc) You don't see a parallel in ANY modern religion except Islam. The need to respond violently to mere words.

P.S. You want to talk about ignorance? How about attacking a Greek Orthodox church for the words of the Catholic Pope.

 

[glo]

There have been violent attacks on Churches in the ME because of the Pope's comments. This is beginning to be a pattern. Some non-muslim says or writes or draws something that offends Muslims and violence and bloodshed is the response. (Danish cartoons, Rushdie, Van Gogh, etc) You don't see a parallel in ANY modern religion except Islam. The need to respond violently to mere words.

P.S. You want to talk about ignorance? How about attacking a Greek Orthodox church for the words of the Catholic Pope.

That's sad isn't it?
Bad enough that the Pope makes an ill-advised insulting comment which connects Islam with violence ... and then some Muslims seem to think it's a good idea to commit acts which seemingly prove him right ...

Let's not forget that these people are by far the minority.
And lets hope that these remain to be isolated incidents.

peace