Prisoners held in record numbers

[Woodrow]

Hi Wilberhum,

Thanks very much for your post. I guess we will agree to disagree.



I'm pretty sure that you will already know this, but I would just like to add that under Islamic law no punishment is applied unless there is absolute certainty that the person is guilty.

So I am pro capital punishment with the correct implementation that I believe Islamic law offers.

Our stances are clear, so thanks for your posts.

Peace

I will agree with the, but I would add that capital punishment shoule not be used by any country that has shown it's legal system can have errors.

I will agree that under true Islamic Law only the guilty would ever be punished, so that is a different situation.

 

[KAding]

So I am pro capital punishment with the correct implementation that I believe Islamic law offers.

How does Islamic law lead to less innocents being executed? What about the system prevents innocents from being convicted?

 

[Woodrow]

How does Islamic law lead to less innocents being executed? What about the system prevents innocents from being convicted?

The burdan of proving guilt against a Muslim in a Muslim country is a very difficult thing to do.A Muslim is considered to be valued at his word and as a Muslim he would be obligated to admit to guilt and be willing to accept his punishment. To prove that he is a liar requires many witnesses and much verifiable evidence as it is a grave sin to call another Muslim a Liar and it not be true.

However, that is a moot point as there is no true Islamic country. And there is no country in which true sharia law could be implemented in today's world. so in a true Islamic Country and under true Sharia Law it would be impossible to punish an innocent man as the fact he says he is innocent is sufficient to prove his innocence.

 

[wilberhum]

the fact he says he is innocent is sufficient to prove his innocence.

One major gaping hole. It operates on the assumption that no Muslim would Lie. Hardly realistic.

 

[Woodrow]

One major gaping hole. It operates on the assumption that no Muslim would Lie. Hardly realistic.

In todays world that is true. It would take a fully Islamic Country and for all of the inhabitants to be strong pious Muslims for it to work without error. I doubt if we will see that until the Mahdi and Jesus(as) come and a true Caliphate is established.

 

[wilberhum]

In todays world that is true.

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Is that operating on the assumption that there was a time when no Muslim would Lie?

 

[Woodrow]

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Is that operating on the assumption that there was a time when no Muslim would Lie?

It is operating on the assumption that I was not alive before my birth and the future hasn't come so the only things I have personal knowledge of are what I see in today's world

I can see the possibility that at some times in the past there were times when no Muslim would lie. However, I can not offer any verification of such, so that would be either an assumption or a hope, as far as trying to explain it to a Non-Muslim. But, I think many Muslims including myself do believe that there had been some true caliphs in the past and those that lived within the caliphate would not lie.

 

[wilberhum]

and those that lived within the caliphate would not lie.

I believe that would be matter of faith.

 

[Keltoi]

I'm sort of like Wilberhum on this issue of capital punishment. I used to be a supporter of execution, but after studying up on the issue I realized that the number of innocent people executed by the legal system was unacceptable. There will probably never be a perfect legal system, but if capital punishment is allowed, there should be a very high standard of evidence.

 

[Woodrow]

I'm sort of like Wilberhum on this issue of capital punishment. I used to be a supporter of execution, but after studying up on the issue I realized that the number of innocent people executed by the legal system was unacceptable. There will probably never be a perfect legal system, but if capital punishment is allowed, there should be a very high standard of evidence.

I agree with that. the evidence must be greater then beyond a reasonable doubt. There must be absolute certainty and actual living trustworthy witnesses. Forensic evidence can be very compelling, but no matter how compelling it is, there can be other explanations, although not likely, but possible.