Proof of God

[yasin]

I can not be bothered to reply to the Atheists wrong stance on what i've said.

it's stupid of you as an atheist to moan that you're generalised, perhaps you expect people whenever talking about a group of people to say oh but not all of them?

One question i throw at you is please please explain many amazing facts about the Quran and Bible.

such as how were they able to make so many accurate predictions?

How was the Quran able to make statements about science, maths etc that modern day scientists have only recently found? This has been so powerful that many many American scientists and astronomers have converted to Islam as they have been bewildered at how accurate the Quran is with educational commentaries.

 

[HeiGou]

I can not be bothered to reply to the Atheists wrong stance on what i've said.

I am sorry to hear that.

it's stupid of you as an atheist to moan that you're generalised, perhaps you expect people whenever talking about a group of people to say oh but not all of them?

We will stop if you stop. So the next time the media refers to all Muslims being terrorists you will not complain?

One question i throw at you is please please explain many amazing facts about the Quran and Bible.

such as how were they able to make so many accurate predictions?

How was the Quran able to make statements about science, maths etc that modern day scientists have only recently found? This has been so powerful that many many American scientists and astronomers have converted to Islam as they have been bewildered at how accurate the Quran is with educational commentaries.

Name a few of those American scientists and astronomers?

This is easy to explain and in fact you have answered your own question. The Quran and the Bible do not contain amazing facts, or at least no one knew they did. Modern scientists, usually believers or in the pay of the Saudi government, have gone over the Bible and the Quran with a fine tooth comb and taken out anything they can semi-plausibly claim to be scientific and claimed it is a miracle. So the Quran did not, for about 1400 years, make any sort of statements about science or maths. It is only in the last 30 years or so that some people have claimed it does.

 

[mathematicci]

Dera Czicbson, You're saying that our beleive in God is similar with your example of teapot.It's you point of view and your own parivacy opinion, so I respetc it.However your refusal of God is based on your afraid.You're afraid of praying on God.BEcause if you obey to God, you will have to pray on Him.And you will have to forsake your some pleasant habits.YOu think tat ypu're nop worship anyne.However If you don't beleive in God, you have to wirship numberless thing.First of all people who don't beleive in God fully obey to Satan.We can say truly that they are slave of Satan.If you want to see how it occurs look some behaviour.It ordey you to get Alcohol or Cocain or make any other bad action and people obey it eagerly...In short peole, who don't want to obey God, have to worship endless thing...

 

[HeiGou]

However your refusal of God is based on your afraid.You're afraid of praying on God.BEcause if you obey to God, you will have to pray on Him.And you will have to forsake your some pleasant habits.YOu think tat ypu're nop worship anyne.

Don't you think it is a little arrogant to claim knowledge of what another man feels and thinks? Dont' you think that perhaps it would be nice to ask why someone believes something before telling them? Don't you think that you have done what rude inconsiderate atheists often do which is to say some thing like "You just need a cruch because you are not strong enough to accept the world as it is"?

However If you don't beleive in God, you have to wirship numberless thing.First of all people who don't beleive in God fully obey to Satan.We can say truly that they are slave of Satan.If you want to see how it occurs look some behaviour.It ordey you to get Alcohol or Cocain or make any other bad action and people obey it eagerly...In short peole, who don't want to obey God, have to worship endless thing...

Really? You think there are no good people in the world who do not worship God? There were none before Monotheism? No good Hindus or Buddhists? No good from Arabia at all before Islam?

But the real problem is different. Many bad things are done by people who worship God. They behead school girls. They blow up shrines and Buddhas. They fly planes into buildings. Are these people worshipping God or Satan and why is it worshipping God is not enough to make them not do it?

 

[The Ruler]

Of course not - think about it rationally for one second! If you can't prove god exists then you can't prove god doesn't exist. That point is pretty obvious really, and it's been mentioned a few times already.

hmmm...we can prove dat God exists....its just that some people are unaware of the signs...i said that before....

but there is NO proof that God doesnt exist < i hope you get what i mean :rollseyes

 

[afriend]

Well, try and prove that god doesn't exist.

What happened before the big bang?

A big bang from nothing?

From just space and vacuum....with complete emptiness....A big Bang? Without the help of Allah?

Also, 1 thing i wud like to point out.

The Quraan talks about the 2 seas that will never meet, 1400 years ago?

Who or what could have known about that 1400 years ago, there was no scientific equipment...

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I can not be bothered to reply to the Atheists wrong stance on what i've said.

I've seen some useless debating styles in my time, but this guy is just unbelievable! ^^^

Dera Czicbson, You're saying that our beleive in God is similar with your example of teapot.It's you point of view and your own parivacy opinion, so I respetc it.However your refusal of God is based on your afraid.You're afraid of praying on God.BEcause if you obey to God, you will have to pray on Him.And you will have to forsake your some pleasant habits.YOu think tat ypu're nop worship anyne.However If you don't beleive in God, you have to wirship numberless thing.First of all people who don't beleive in God fully obey to Satan.We can say truly that they are slave of Satan.If you want to see how it occurs look some behaviour.It ordey you to get Alcohol or Cocain or make any other bad action and people obey it eagerly...In short peole, who don't want to obey God, have to worship endless thing...

HeiGou's already answered this for me. This bit is quite amusing:

First of all people who don't beleive in God fully obey to Satan.We can say truly that they are slave of Satan.

It appears I'm a slave of something else I don't believe in - remarkable. It's fascinating to be told what I am and what I think.

hmmm...we can prove dat God exists....its just that some people are unaware of the signs...i said that before....

Yes, you've said it before, but it's not true. As I've said many times, if you could prove god existed then everyone would believe in god.

Peace

 

[The Ruler]

arrrrgh do i have to say it again....the people who can see Allah's signs do know that God exists. the people that cant see them just come up with theories out of no where and say that 'God doesnt exist' although they jus cant prove it...:rollseyes

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

arrrrgh do i have to say it again....the people who can see Allah's signs do know that God exists.

No you don't. You have faith that god exists, which is different from having knowledge.

the people that cant see them just come up with theories out of no where and say that 'God doesnt exist' although they jus cant prove it...:rollseyes

What theories are you thinking of?

Peace

 

[HeiGou]

Well, try and prove that god doesn't exist.

Try to prove the Tooth Fairy does not exist. It is nearly impossible to prove that anything doesn't exist.

What happened before the big bang?

There was no space and no time before the Big Bang. Therefore there was no time for anything to happen in.

A big bang from nothing?

From just space and vacuum....with complete emptiness....A big Bang? Without the help of Allah?

Yep. It looks that way. Except there was no space or vacuum - the entire Universe existed as a singularity: a single point of space with virtually no dimensions. The entire Universe as we know it (and a lot more) was pressed down into that tiny dot.

Also, 1 thing i wud like to point out.

The Quraan talks about the 2 seas that will never meet, 1400 years ago?

Who or what could have known about that 1400 years ago, there was no scientific equipment...

Well two seas obviously do meet. Which passage are you thinking of? Any person who has ever been to see a river flow into a sea knows that there is a space where fresh and salty water do not mix right away. The Portuguese found Brazil because they were sailing in the middle of the Ocean when they noticed it had turned brown and was fresh - they turned and sailed up it until they hit the Amazon. Everyone knew this.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Well, try and prove that god doesn't exist.

Why? Why don't you try and prove to me that the orbiting teapot doesn't exist?

What happened before the big bang?

Nobody knows.

The big bang is the earliest event we can conceive. If you ask 'what caused it?' the answer is 'nobody knows'. You can invent a cause for it like god, but then the question becomes 'what caused god'?

The Quraan talks about the 2 seas that will never meet, 1400 years ago?

And what are these two seas exactly?

Who or what could have known about that 1400 years ago, there was no scientific equipment...

Please could we give the "scientific miracles " argument a rest? It's just pathetic. See HeiGou's post #102 for the standard response. It's been given every time someone's brought this argument up, and it's just getting boring now.

Peace

 

[afriend]

And what are these two seas exactly?

well, the two two seas.

The fresh water sea, and the Salty water sea, they will never meet or mix.

Somewhere in the pacific ocean.

 

[HeiGou]

well, the two two seas.

The fresh water sea, and the Salty water sea, they will never meet or mix.

Somewhere in the pacific ocean.

Now if the Quran mentioned the Pacific Ocean that would have been pretty impressive. Not impossible but impressive. Does it?

Of course think of the opportunity missed by not mentioning America and making sure Muslims got there first!

And incidentally, fresh and salt water do mix in the end. Are you sure that is what you mean?

 

[mathematicci]

It is a sane principle that whena you talk about something you intend mentioning its perfect degree.For example when I tell you what aple is, nobody thinks a rotten or wormy apple.Most people imagine a red or green bright apple.That description of non-beleived people is describies the upper degree of non-beleivers.Of course every charactaristic of pagans don't have to be infidel and every feature of Muslims cannot be derived from Islam.My previous writing should be took into account with these perspectives.
For example some non-believers say:"Lİfe is a quarrel".Islam says:"life is working to gether".Which one of these is more benefit.The first one is results in wars and terror while the other encourage people to help eac hother.This is only a small example.Please don't stifle in that example.Answer main opinion if you want to answer me.
I want to say as a notte that I am not an antogonist of Atheists or any other non-believers.I love all people since Human is the perfect creature of GOD.God love human more than all other creatures.

 

[DaSangarTalib]

Why do you ppl who deny the existence of Allah; continue to be in this denial? What do you think you was created by no1 and you came to life yourself, Do you think the chemical reaction that occurs when a fetus is being produced, process and structure of cells just happens by chance, all the functions and duty every little cell undertakes in the human, and other creatures bodies just happens by itself? Did the cells design itself with such perfect and flawless design? Do you think its all a conicedence? coz i dont think so! all this far too complex and with certainty can't happen just by itself, any rational person would agree to this and would know that there is a greater force; and that is Allah. you ppl who deny Allah really need to wake up, this is a very ignorant way of thinking, He created mankind from absolutely nothing and you deny him? too much ignorance as well as denial, Who created all the universe did it make its ownself? did big bang occur? and everything sprung up, then life came about in humans, animals, and every other living things? These are all evidence that Allah exist, look around you all of that is the proof of Allah, Sky, mountains, oceans, all of these wonders in the World as well as the Universe...yet you still dont believe? anyone with a brain would know Allah; the creator of the Earth, Heavens and everything in between Does in fact exist, and that there is not doubt about that! Look at it from this perspective every product, painting etc; is without a doubt designed and constructed by someone from nothing? Right? and they are its designer, artists; no1 denies this. So you could use the same logic when thinking about life, world, as a mater of fact the whole universe..who created that from nothing?...who design and structured everything with perfection, everything functions smoothly without any errors; Allah created all this flawless creation; with no errors in, including us! so why are you guys -> ! and probably still be after reading this; but even more!

In the Quran Allah says:

56:57: It is We Who have created you: why will ye not witness the Truth?
56:58: Do ye then see?- The (human Seed) that ye throw out,
56:59: Is it ye who create it, or are We the Creators?
56:60: We have decreed Death to be your common lot, and We are not to be frustrated
56:61: from changing your Forms and creating you (again) in (forms) that ye know not.
56:62: And ye certainly know already the first form of creation: why then do ye not celebrate His praises?
56:63: See ye the seed that ye sow in the ground?
56:64: Is it ye that cause it to grow, or are We the Cause?
56:65: Were it Our Will, We could crumble it to dry powder, and ye would be left in wonderment,

[Extracted from Surah Al Wâqi'ah] and many other surahs on similar topic

What science is coming up with nowadays due to all its advance technology had already been stated in the Quran by Allah, but you still deny? keep it going!

It is God who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number, the Command descending down through all of them, so that you might know that God has power over all things and that God encompasses all things in His knowledge. [Surat at-Talaq: 12] Though you still -->

All Praises and glory are due to Allah and Him alone!, the maintainer of the universe

P.S. i might have repeated points in my post that have already been expressed in other members posts, reason being i havent read no posts on this thread, i just wanted to put my opinion across, so if i have done this Please keep cool!

ONE!

 

[czgibson]

Why do you ppl who deny the existence of Allah; continue to be in this denial? What do you think you was created by no1 and you came to life yourself, Do you think the chemical reaction that occurs when a fetus is being produced, process and structure of cells just happens by chance, all the functions and duty every little cell undertakes in the human, and other creatures bodies just happens by itself? Did the cells design itself with such perfect and flawless design? Do you think its all a conicedence?

No.

coz i dont think so! all this far too complex and with certainty can't happen just by itself, any rational person would agree to this and would know that there is a greater force; and that is Allah.

Then why have so many rational people been atheists?

did big bang occur?

It seems very likely that it did, yes.

These are all evidence that Allah exist, look around you all of that is the proof of Allah, Sky, mountains, oceans, all of these wonders in the World as well as the Universe...yet you still dont believe?

How is the sky evidence that Allah exists?

anyone with a brain would know Allah; the creator of the Earth, Heavens and everything in between Does in fact exist, and that there is not doubt about that!

Many people with brains have not believed in Allah, therefore it would seem there is considerable doubt about what you say.

Look at it from this perspective every product, painting etc; is without a doubt designed and constructed by someone from nothing? Right? and they are its designer, artists; no1 denies this. So you could use the same logic when thinking about life, world, as a mater of fact the whole universe..who created that from nothing?...who design and structured everything with perfection, everything functions smoothly without any errors; Allah created all this flawless creation; with no errors in, including us! so why are you guys -> ! and probably still be after reading this; but even more!

This is the argument from design, also known as the teleological argument. Do you think I've never seen it before? I've responded to it so many times on this forum I'm not going to bother again. See here:

Teleological Argument

What science is coming up with nowadays due to all its advance technology had already been stated in the Quran by Allah, but you still deny? keep it going!

Please could you point to the sections of the Qur'an that deal with quantum theory, string theory and the mapping of the human genome?

It is God who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number, the Command descending down through all of them, so that you might know that God has power over all things and that God encompasses all things in His knowledge. [Surat at-Talaq: 12] Though you still -->

Right - just because someone makes an assertion doesn't mean you have to believe it unquestioningly. You are allowed to use your own intelligence to think about these things.

ONE!

TWO!

Peace

 

[DaSangarTalib]

No.

Then why have so many rational people been atheists?

thats a matter of opinion

It seems very likely that it did, yes.

ok thats what you believe and can keep believing in that, aint no problem

How is the sky evidence that Allah exists?

Umm whats holding the sky up...strings? what makes the cloud float in the sky? Allah is the controller of everything

Many people with brains have not believed in Allah, therefore it would seem there is considerable doubt about what you say.

and also many ppl with brains, and some without have believed in Allah!

This is the argument from design, also known as the teleological argument. Do you think I've never seen it before? I've responded to it so many times on this forum I'm not going to bother again. See here:

Teleological Argument

ok that's what you believe

Please could you point to the sections of the Qur'an that deal with quantum theory, string theory and the mapping of the human genome?

What i meant to say SOME then...and i will bring you an example what has already been stated in the Quran but umm non-believers or scientists had to work it out themsleves.

Right - just because someone makes an assertion doesn't mean you have to believe it unquestioningly. You are allowed to use your own intelligence to think about these things.

yea where have i said you cant use your own intelligence, but who's given you that intelligence? Allah gave it, He is the real provide of everything! and i was just expressing my opinion, im sure i said that and not get into a debate with you

Furthermore, i wasnt tryna convince you Allah does exist, because obviosly i cant do that, i dont think anyone can! you just have to wait and see till the day we all return to Yours, everyone and everything else, CREATOR (Allah)..im sure everyone with the same views on this matter as you will then and only then truly believe

TWO!

Peace

THREE!

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Why? Why don't you try and prove to me that the orbiting teapot doesn't exist?

In such cases it just becomes a discussion of the attributes of the entity in question. I don't believe in an orbiting teapot because its attributes are contradictory. This is just like the invisible pink unicorn argument or the ice-cream factory on jupiter argument.

When you say that there is an orbiting teapot, well a teapot is a man-made object used for tea. If this isn't used for tea and only resembles a teapot, then why are you calling it a teapot? If it simply some debris in orbit around our planet that you think resembles a tea pot then I do agree, there is a lot of space junk out there from destroyed satellites and other projects. So I wouldn't be suprised if one piece slightly resembled a teapot.

The problem you have is that you deny the existence of God without any evidence to do so, yet all the examples you can bring such as orbiting teapots, invisible unicorns, the tooth-fairy, santa claus and icecream factories were all either self-contradictory or inconsequential. You were better off using arguments against God such as claims that His attributes are self-contradictory.

Peace

 

[DaSangarTalib]

makes sense^^^Masha'Allah

 

[czgibson]

Greetings Ansar,

In such cases it just becomes a discussion of the attributes of the entity in question. I don't believe in an orbiting teapot because its attributes are contradictory. This is just like the invisible pink unicorn argument or the ice-cream factory on jupiter argument.

What is contradictory about a teapot being in orbit?

When you say that there is an orbiting teapot, well a teapot is a man-made object used for tea. If this isn't used for tea and only resembles a teapot, then why are you calling it a teapot? If it simply some debris in orbit around our planet that you think resembles a tea pot then I do agree, there is a lot of space junk out there from destroyed satellites and other projects. So I wouldn't be suprised if one piece slightly resembled a teapot.

I'm talking about an actual teapot here. How can you be certain whether it is actually there or not?

The problem you have is that you deny the existence of God without any evidence to do so, yet all the examples you can bring such as orbiting teapots, invisible unicorns, the tooth-fairy, santa claus and icecream factories were all either self-contradictory or inconsequential. You were better off using arguments against God such as claims that His attributes are self-contradictory.

I don't deny the existence of god due to evidence, but lack of evidence! Besides, surely the burden of proof is on the theist, since they are making a positive assertion?

You've chosen to label some of the examples I've used as self-contradictory, which I accept in some cases, or inconsequential, which is your personal judgment, and so is really neither here nor there.

Let's think about the teapot argument: is there, or is there not a teapot in orbit around the planet? It has never been observed, so we have no way of knowing, therefore strictly we should be agnostic about it. However, the orbiting teapot is at least conceivable, since we are familiar with examples of teapots here on Earth. This is where the position is different from that of god. Not only has god never been observed, but no similar or analogous creature exists anywhere in the universe, therefore rather than being agnostic about god, it is far more likely that he is actually a fiction.

Peace