Proof of God

[Woodrow]

It would seem you lived an interesting life Woodrow.

That is an understatement. Hopefully by the time you reach my age there will be many wonderful memories you will cherish and may you achieve them without needing to pay the price I paid for some of mine.

In response to the thread. I just want to address the statement that all of existance is proof of Gods existance. I think ppl are simply attributing it based on ignorance as to what a "godless universe" would look like.

to be honest I agree with you. I can not even begin to envision what a godless universe would be as I see that as an impossibility.

To give an example why this is silly; "All of existance is proof that Mars is red".

I'm too brain dead to catch what your intent is, for that.

In regards to weak/strong atheist, Id say alot of atheists are actually both. Even agnostics, deists and even most theists are the majority of the time strong atheists.

I tend to think that is more accurate if worded: "Even some agnostics, deists and even some theists may some times have strong atheistic thoughts."

This is because the deities of almost all formal religions can be tested for at least indirectly.

a test can only test what the test is designed to test. I person in need of designing a test to prove the existance of God(swt) has already flawed the test by an inherent desire to determine God(swt) does not exist.

This can be done either thru science, logic, or just believing your faith to be superior.

I have no connotation of a superior faith. Faith either is or it is not. It may differ in strength and degree of belief but it is still faith that God(swt) exists.

Im only a weak atheist when it comes to the deist God. He left as an undefined abstract which I then have no way to prove/disprove so it would be dishonest of me to say it doesnt exist.

Only you know that.

 

[Mikayeel]

the actuall post are these the words of hassanain rajabali? because thats the sort of style he uses
salam

 

[Muezzin]

Isn't the proof of the authencity of the Quran sufficient enough to prove that it's god's word and by extention prove the existAnce of god? [existence]

Assuming everybody else believes you, it would be.

But things cease to be 'proof' when the person you're trying to convince doesn't believe it, if you see the kind of semantic game I'm playing.

Also, note to Internet people: It's 'existence'. With an 'e'. 'Persistence'. 'Pestilence'. 'Recompense'. Um... 'past tense'. Yeah.

 

[Omari]

lol. Yes I see what you're pointing at, but its still [in my opinion] a muslims duty, to debate, argue and prove the existence of god thorough the Quran. Wether they believe it or not didn't stop our beloved prophet, did it?

But yeah I definatly get your point, and it's the one important challenge we all face today.

peace be with you brother.
Omari

 

[Muezzin]

Obviously, we all have to press on. We just shouldn't get too depressed when people don't believe us. He who Allah guides, none can misguide him; He who Allah misguides, none can guide him.

 

[Omari]

Yes, those who get emotional don't make the best debaters.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Isn't the proof of the authencity of the Quran sufficient enough to prove that it's god's word and by extention prove the existAnce of god? [existence]

Authenticity proves nothing but authenticity.

 

[Isambard]

I'm too brain dead to catch what your intent is, for that.

We dont know what a Universe with a green Mars would look like. Who knows? If Mars stopped being Red existence may end!. Sure it may be speculation and most indicators point to that beinghighly unlikely, but there is still that margin of uncertainty.

Same goes with God governing the universe. It seems to do fine on its own, but hey, maybe God is responsible the same way Mars being red is responsible. In both cases we cant test for it.

Just an example of false attribution.

I tend to think that is more accurate if worded: "Even some agnostics, deists and even some theists may some times have strong atheistic thoughts."

:hiding:

a test can only test what the test is designed to test. I person in need of designing a test to prove the existance of God(swt) has already flawed the test by an inherent desire to determine God(swt) does not exist.

Well the concept of God is so broad it can mean anything you want. I personally feel that "God" is the ultimate abtract because it incorporates other vague concepts into the definition (love, merciful, wisdom etc etc.)

Defined though it gets a little easier. There is still that vagueness, but if you see a contradiction in what is observed in the physical world and what is proclaimed by X deity, then either the deity is lying or god is a human construct.

For. In Homeric epics, Zeus is responsible for lightning and he does it when he's mad. (Greek gods are very vengeful) There has been no formal test for Zeus, but our testing in regards to weather phenomena is pretty conclusive that lightning and thunder is a natural event and not pre-planned.

So either Zeus has gotten lazy over the yrs/ he's hiding, or he doesnt exist.

This is what I mean for testing indirectly.

Of course the more inconsistancies/contradictions you find the more likely X deity doesnt exist.

I have no connotation of a superior faith. Faith either is or it is not. It may differ in strength and degree of belief but it is still faith that God(swt) exists.

That wasnt meant for anyone in particular. Just something Ive noticed among more "enthusiastic" believers. Believing your god is The God = true faith requiering stregnth. Other ppls beliefs in their gods = self-deception in order to serve their evil ends. (Or so the tv bible thumpers claim)

Muezzin. You're gonna hate my spelling/grammar alot more pretty soon. Feeling inspired by A Clockwork Orange, I'm trying to make nadsat my native tongue

 

[Muezzin]

Muezzin. You're gonna hate my spelling/grammar alot more pretty soon. Feeling inspired by A Clockwork Orange, I'm trying to make nadsat my native tongue

Just make sure you don't make rape and ultraviolence your favourite pastimes.

And as to the topic, I still don't think God's existence can be proved as such. Such a concept requires faith, which is distinct from logic.

Just something Ive noticed among more "enthusiastic" believers. Believing your god is The God = true faith requiering stregnth. Other ppls beliefs in their gods = self-deception in order to serve their evil ends. (Or so the tv bible thumpers claim)

Funny how certain 'enthusiastic' athiests are guilty of the very same. Just substitute 'God' for '(dis)belief system' and you're there.

Point being, it's not nice when religious people have this smarmy, snotty attitude to other people's dearly held beliefs, and it's not nice when athiests display the same. The people on the receiving end may be insulted or offended, but they will not be convinced, thus making such tactic an exercise in self-gratification. And a rather ugly one at that.