Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)'s smashing of 360 idols in Mecca

[CosmicPathos]

titus is once again on the loose .... with his quackery and magical arguments.

 

[titus]

It was in rhetoric, I wasn't looking for a response, rather used to highlight your hypocrisy and frank ignorance!

I am consistent. You are the one showing indignation at the looting in Iraq then turning around and praising the destruction of the Buddhist statues. If there is anyone being a hypocrite here it is not me.

Money in the hands of corrupt afghan puppet govt. hardly reaches children as evidenced by their mortality rate.

The offer was made at the time the Taliban was in power. The same group that you are defending refused money to help feed their children.

titus is once again on the loose .... with his quackery and magical arguments.

And once again I am met with insults instead of rational answers.

 

[جوري]

I am consistent. You are the one showing indignation at the looting in Iraq then turning around and praising the destruction of the Buddhist statues. If there is anyone being a hypocrite here it is not me.

You are far from consistent and had that been the case then we would have seen an outcry from you over far more ****ing acts committed by your kin and further adding insult to injury by persisting in folly as if to say silly meaningless statues which can be destroyed in an instant by a mere earth quake or tsunami and with no respite from the muted statues to defend themselves against the mere forces of nature or save their idolaters from heartbreak more pressing in preservation than human life!

The offer was made at the time the Taliban was in power. The same group that you are defending refused money to help feed their children.

That is B.S.. further money wasted on statues all together is ludicrous.. you have any sum to throw around then you need to prioritize.. do you go purchasing makeup for your face before you've put dinner on every hungry plate (within your household) try to use that analogy when thinking of 16000 children that die from hunger every day whether in Afghanistan or more 'deserving' places by your standards when obsessing over ancillary needs!

And once again I am met with insults instead of rational answers.

There is no common ground for rationality to be in question. I don't even consider any form of conversation with you to be par with common sense whatsoever even if said comment was directed at someone else.. you should really ponder why more than one individual views you in a similar light!

all the best

 

[titus]

silly meaningless statues which can be destroyed in an instant by a mere earth quake or tsunami and with no respite from the muted statues to defend themselves against the mere forces of nature or save their idolaters from heartbreak more pressing in preservation than human life!

The Taliban, which you are defending, thought it was more important to destroy these statues than to feed their own children.

If you want to be upset at someone then be upset at them.

do you go purchasing makeup for your face before you've put dinner on every hungry plate (within your household) try to use that analogy when thinking of 16000 children that die from hunger every day whether in Afghanistan or more 'deserving' places by your standards when obsessing over ancillary needs!

If your children are starving would you turn down an offer to buy some meaningless statues that you own, or would you continue to let the children starve while you destroy the valuable statues out of spite?

If you choose to destroy the statues then you obviously don't care about your children.

Speaking of ancillary needs, how much did the computer you are using cost? And your education? Do you own a nice television or car or house? So please stop the silly argument that if you have extra money and don't give it to starving children you are evil or uncaring.

There is no common ground for rationality to be in question.

True, since you have yet to give me a rational answer for why the Taliban would destroy the statues. You say it is because they wanted their children fed, yet they refused money for the statues they could have used for the children, which any rational person can see refutes that excuse.

 

[جوري]

The Taliban, which you are defending, thought it was more important to destroy these statues than to feed their own children.

your spin on the truth doesn't hold water.. there is no room for hearsay when we've heard it from the horse's mouth!

If you want to be upset at someone then be upset at them.

In fact I am proud of what they have done!

If your children are starving would you turn down an offer to buy some meaningless statues that you own, or would you continue to let the children starve while you destroy the valuable statues out of spite?

No one has offered them aid instead they offered it to restore statues perhaps if you would listen attentively without your own additives and preservatives you'd have understood that, if there were aid coming in, then the kids won't be dead, now would they?

If you choose to destroy the statues then you obviously don't care about your children.

Like I stated before and so we are not moving in a circular fashion, you are one to draw satisfaction from overly simplistic conclusions...It is almost insulting to read and engage this level of pedantry (even if I could call it that)

Speaking of ancillary needs, how much did the computer you are using cost? And your education? Do you own a nice television or car or house? So please stop the silly argument that if you have extra money and don't give it to starving children you are evil or uncaring.

You don't know how I spend my money, at least the other half of it that isn't wasted on taxes funding uncle sam's wars, as such you shouldn't gauge in topics that are clearly over your head!

True, since you have yet to give me a rational answer for why the Taliban would destroy the statues. You say it is because they wanted their children fed, yet they refused money for the statues they could have used for the children, which any rational person can see refutes that excuse.

lol.. who the hell are you for anyone to give you an answer rational or not? a little gadfly who sees fit to ingratiate himself in a topic where is he is clearly uneducated and unclear about the events and the subject matter?

I wish you'd simply buzz off and find yourself a nice islamophobic forum as you have earlier suggested the justification an enjoy yourself with like minded individuals!


I am done here!

 

[CosmicPathos]

I am consistent. You are the one showing indignation at the looting in Iraq then turning around and praising the destruction of the Buddhist statues. If there is anyone being a hypocrite here it is not me.



The offer was made at the time the Taliban was in power. The same group that you are defending refused money to help feed their children.



And once again I am met with insults instead of rational answers.

The truth is that there are no rational answers to irrational questions.

 

[espada]

Is this even serious?

Why would Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) the Messenger of Allah (SWT), Al-Ahad, destroy the idols of polytheism that were inside the Kaaba?

And another thing, i found it pretty amusing how attached that some "Buddhists" can be towards Earthly things such as statues.

 

[titus]

nd another thing, i found it pretty amusing how attached that some "Buddhists" can be towards Earthly things such as statues.

You may find it funny, but what if someone attempted to deface the Kaaba? What about the desecration of Masjids? Is it amusing that Muslims are upset about suggestions to move the Dome of the Rock? As a Muslim do you not hold copies of the Quran so important that you have rules as to how to care for them?

Many religions have objects that they hold dear and Islam is no exception.

 

[جوري]

Does anyone else see a relation from which to draw a simile between idol statues and a place a worship (which we are actually informed will be destroyed at some point)?

Not only is religion alive in the heart so that no place can compass God save the heart of the believer (as per hadith Qudsui), but a basic principal of Buddhists is to 'rise above' worldly possessions.. as such again why such emphasis on idol statues?
Things have become so jaded for some that they are unable to distinguish falsehood!

 

[titus]

Does anyone else see a relation from which to draw a simile between idol statues and a place a worship

Yes. Espada mentioned relions and their attachment to earthly things.

If someone attempted to destroy the Dome of the Rock, for example, Muslims would react strongly.

In fact, they would probably not be near as nice about it as the Buddhists.

 

[جوري]

It wouldn't matter if they destroyed the dome of the rock, they are already destroying Al-Aqsa, the dome is no dearer than Al-Aqsa..and secondly if the dome of the rock were on foreign soil belonging to a sovereign nation which I am not only invading but making sure its civilians die then frankly destroying the dome would be the least expected..

You constantly fail and on many levels.. one wonders who taught you basic logic albeit something that should be innate and completely elusive to you!

Espada merely mentioned the paradox of Buddhists tenets to their whining over Buddha statues which btw in their own festivals they create out of butter and then later eat..

Why are you even arguing? your reason or lack thereof has been annihilated a thousand times over and with such minor effort!

 

[titus]

It wouldn't matter if they destroyed the dome of the rock

While it wouldn't matter to you it would matter to tens of millions of other Muslims. Would you call all of them superficial?

But then I think you say one thing when you mean another. I think that if Isreal were to destroy the Dome of the Rock or Al Aqsa you would be on these forums in a heartbeat condemning it. You most certainly would not be standing for the right of Isreal to do it like you have for the Taliban.

Espada merely mentioned the paradox of Buddhists tenets to their whining over Buddha statues which btw in their own festivals they create out of butter and then later eat..

Muslims are also taught not to value earthly possessions. So does this paradox exist for both religions?

Why are you even arguing? your reason or lack thereof has been annihilated a thousand times over and with such minor effort!

I have used reason and facts. You have used insults. I think this shows the shaky ground you walk on with this topic.

You say the Taliban wanted to help the children, yet refuse to answer why they refused money for the statues or answer why they decided to spend the money on demolition when they could have used that money also for the children. Ignoring a question and insulting me is completely different than "annihilating" my intelligence.

Even if you accept the argument that the Taliban had the right to be angry, why take it out on these statues which were important to Buddhist around the world? It was not all these Buddhists that offended the Taliban by wanting to restore the statues. The actions of the Taliban were the moral equivalent of burning down a Masjid because someone who went there was arrested for theft.

 

[جوري]

While it wouldn't matter to you it would matter to tens of millions of other Muslims. Would you call all of them superficial?

Do you just makeup crap as you go along for the sake of saving face?

But then I think you say one thing when you mean another. I think that if Isreal were to destroy the Dome of the Rock or Al Aqsa you would be on these forums in a heartbeat condemning it. You most certainly would not be standing for the right of Isreal to do it like you have for the Taliban.

• Excavations Under and Around Al Aqsa Mosque​

Since March, 1968, the Israeli authorities have engaged a Jewish archaeological team for excavations under, and around, Al Aqsa Mosque with the object of finding traces of the Jewish Temple. They introduced in the Haram Al-Sherif (Noble Sanctuary) area large digging and earth-moving equipment and made excavations in many parts of the sacred area. They dug tunnels beneath the foundations of Al Aqsa Mosque.
On September 8, 1981, Ambassador Hazem Nusseibeh of Jordan, former Minister of Foreign Affairs, sent a letter to the Secretary General of the United Nations regarding the continued Israeli excavations and the claims of finds announced on August 25, 1981. In the letter he said that “the latest clandestine Israeli descriptions have reached a stage where the Al Aqsa Mosque is presently in danger of total collapse. The Mufti of Jerusalem…has described these dangerous diggings as blatant desecration of the Al Aqsa Mosque.”
The destruction or collapse of the 1,350-year-old Mosque would constitute a crime against humanity and the historic landmarks preserved under UNESCO. “The collapse of this holy sanctuary would be nothing less than a cultural, political and spiritual genocide against this legacy and its innermost and immortal soul,” the letter said.
Dr. Nusseibeh sent attached documents with the letter which was circulated as an official document of the General Assembly and Security Council.
These included:
Chronology of the most important occupation attempts

1. First phase: Extensive diggings were carried out on an area of 70 square meters under the southern wall of the Al-Aqsa Mosque (1967-1968)
2. Second phase: In 1969, the diggings exceeded an area of 80 square meters adjacent to the wall of the Al-Aqsa Mosque. These ongoing diggings caused a serious undermining of the adjacent building. Subsequently, the entire Magharbah quarter was demolished
3. Third phase: The diggings in 1970 resulted in serious cracks in the foundations of the Ottoman Mosque (Ribat Al-Kurd), and the Jawhiriya School
4. Fourth phase: Diggings (1972-1974) behind the wall of Al Aqsa Mosque and extending across the southern wall of the Mosque and under the Mihrab pulpit and beneath the Mosque of Omar
5. Fifth phase: The diggings in the middle of the eastern side of the wall near the Golden Gate, where those diggings inflicted extensive damage upon an ancient Islamic cemetery near the site
6. Sixth phase: An expansion of the area of the Wailing Wall designed to destroy all the buildings in the area surrounding the Wailing Wall. An Israeli Ministerial Committee endorsed in 1977 the implementation of this plan, which includes the demolition of several Islamic historic buildings, including the Old Islamic Shari’s Court, the Tankinazia School, the Khalidiya Library, a charitable Zawiya (corner) and the Abu-Midian ancient Mosque
7. Seventh phase: The most ominous and menacing of these continuous diggings started when the occupation authorities declared on August, 27 1981 that they had discovered a tunnel beneath the Wailing Wall and the holy Dome of the Rock, which extends through these and beneath the foundations of Al Aqsa Mosque. The occupation authorities alleged that this tunnel had been discovered a month before the discovery was announced. But that the announcement had been withheld and kept secret after informing the two Chief Rabbis of Israel as well as the Minister of Religious Affairs and the Defense Minister

The Israeli officials visited the area and requested that the matter remained shrouded in secrecy. However, the news reached the world media which compelled the Ministry of education to stop the diggings and to close the tunnel in order to avoid far-reaching Islamic reactions.
However, the diggings did not in fact stop and were resumed when the Israeli Supreme Court issued a decision on 4 September which revoked the decision of the Minister of Education and permitted a resumption and completion of the diggings, which were resumed on 6 September.


http://www.jerusalemites.org/crimes/crimes_against_islam/6.htm

Not sure which is pressing now getting Aid for Gaza or worrying about Al-Aqsa .. neither which is actually comparable to idol statues!

Muslims are also taught not to value earthly possessions. So does this paradox exist for both religions?

What possessions are those? or do you expect me to carry on your faulty premise?

I have used reason and facts. You have used insults. I think this shows the shaky ground you walk on with this topic.

You have offered no reason, no logic and no common sense, and have no idea what you are talking about.. what you are capable of however is endless drivel!

and I have no reason to read anymore.. not only do I not enjoy circuitousness but your are so ailing on multiple levels that it is clearly a waste of my time!

 

[جوري]

While it wouldn't matter to you it would matter to tens of millions of other Muslims. Would you call all of them superficial?

Do you just makeup crap as you go along for the sake of saving face?

But then I think you say one thing when you mean another. I think that if Isreal were to destroy the Dome of the Rock or Al Aqsa you would be on these forums in a heartbeat condemning it. You most certainly would not be standing for the right of Isreal to do it like you have for the Taliban.

• Excavations Under and Around Al Aqsa Mosque​

Since March, 1968, the Israeli authorities have engaged a Jewish archaeological team for excavations under, and around, Al Aqsa Mosque with the object of finding traces of the Jewish Temple. They introduced in the Haram Al-Sherif (Noble Sanctuary) area large digging and earth-moving equipment and made excavations in many parts of the sacred area. They dug tunnels beneath the foundations of Al Aqsa Mosque.
On September 8, 1981, Ambassador Hazem Nusseibeh of Jordan, former Minister of Foreign Affairs, sent a letter to the Secretary General of the United Nations regarding the continued Israeli excavations and the claims of finds announced on August 25, 1981. In the letter he said that “the latest clandestine Israeli descriptions have reached a stage where the Al Aqsa Mosque is presently in danger of total collapse. The Mufti of Jerusalem…has described these dangerous diggings as blatant desecration of the Al Aqsa Mosque.”
The destruction or collapse of the 1,350-year-old Mosque would constitute a crime against humanity and the historic landmarks preserved under UNESCO. “The collapse of this holy sanctuary would be nothing less than a cultural, political and spiritual genocide against this legacy and its innermost and immortal soul,” the letter said.
Dr. Nusseibeh sent attached documents with the letter which was circulated as an official document of the General Assembly and Security Council.
These included:
Chronology of the most important occupation attempts

1. First phase: Extensive diggings were carried out on an area of 70 square meters under the southern wall of the Al-Aqsa Mosque (1967-1968)
2. Second phase: In 1969, the diggings exceeded an area of 80 square meters adjacent to the wall of the Al-Aqsa Mosque. These ongoing diggings caused a serious undermining of the adjacent building. Subsequently, the entire Magharbah quarter was demolished
3. Third phase: The diggings in 1970 resulted in serious cracks in the foundations of the Ottoman Mosque (Ribat Al-Kurd), and the Jawhiriya School
4. Fourth phase: Diggings (1972-1974) behind the wall of Al Aqsa Mosque and extending across the southern wall of the Mosque and under the Mihrab pulpit and beneath the Mosque of Omar
5. Fifth phase: The diggings in the middle of the eastern side of the wall near the Golden Gate, where those diggings inflicted extensive damage upon an ancient Islamic cemetery near the site
6. Sixth phase: An expansion of the area of the Wailing Wall designed to destroy all the buildings in the area surrounding the Wailing Wall. An Israeli Ministerial Committee endorsed in 1977 the implementation of this plan, which includes the demolition of several Islamic historic buildings, including the Old Islamic Shari’s Court, the Tankinazia School, the Khalidiya Library, a charitable Zawiya (corner) and the Abu-Midian ancient Mosque
7. Seventh phase: The most ominous and menacing of these continuous diggings started when the occupation authorities declared on August, 27 1981 that they had discovered a tunnel beneath the Wailing Wall and the holy Dome of the Rock, which extends through these and beneath the foundations of Al Aqsa Mosque. The occupation authorities alleged that this tunnel had been discovered a month before the discovery was announced. But that the announcement had been withheld and kept secret after informing the two Chief Rabbis of Israel as well as the Minister of Religious Affairs and the Defense Minister

The Israeli officials visited the area and requested that the matter remained shrouded in secrecy. However, the news reached the world media which compelled the Ministry of education to stop the diggings and to close the tunnel in order to avoid far-reaching Islamic reactions.
However, the diggings did not in fact stop and were resumed when the Israeli Supreme Court issued a decision on 4 September which revoked the decision of the Minister of Education and permitted a resumption and completion of the diggings, which were resumed on 6 September.


http://www.jerusalemites.org/crimes/crimes_against_islam/6.htm

Not sure which is pressing now getting Aid for Gaza or worrying about Al-Aqsa .. neither which is actually comparable to idol statues!

Muslims are also taught not to value earthly possessions. So does this paradox exist for both religions?

What possessions are those? or do you expect me to carry on your faulty premise?

I have used reason and facts. You have used insults. I think this shows the shaky ground you walk on with this topic.

You have offered no reason, no logic and no common sense, and have no idea what you are talking about.. what you are capable of however is endless drivel!

and I have no reason to read anymore.. not only do I not enjoy circuitousness but your are so ailing on multiple levels that it is clearly a waste of my time!

 

[CosmicPathos]

Titus, your lunacy has made this threat entertaining.

 

[titus]

Not sure which is pressing now getting Aid for Gaza or worrying about Al-Aqsa .. neither which is actually comparable to idol statues!

You cannot comprehend the analogy between two religions and two physical items they hold dear?

and I have no reason to read anymore..

You refuse to answer the next part because you have no answer for it. It exposes the weakness of your argument and it exposes the Taliban as liars.

Let me repeat it for you.

You say the Taliban wanted to help the children, yet refuse to answer why they refused money for the statues or answer why they decided to spend the money on demolition when they could have used that money also for the children. Ignoring a question and insulting me is completely different than "annihilating" my intelligence.

Even if you accept the argument that the Taliban had the right to be angry, why take it out on these statues which were important to Buddhist around the world? It was not all these Buddhists that offended the Taliban by wanting to restore the statues. The actions of the Taliban were the moral equivalent of burning down a Masjid because someone who went there was arrested for theft.

 

[جوري]

You cannot comprehend the analogy between two religions and two physical items they hold dear?

I guess because the rest of us have outgrown the Pre-operational stage, good luck catching up!

You refuse to answer the next part because you have no answer for it. It exposes the weakness of your argument and it exposes the Taliban as liars.

Let me repeat it for you.

You say the Taliban wanted to help the children, yet refuse to answer why they refused money for the statues or answer why they decided to spend the money on demolition when they could have used that money also for the children. Ignoring a question and insulting me is completely different than "annihilating" my intelligence.

Even if you accept the argument that the Taliban had the right to be angry, why take it out on these statues which were important to Buddhist around the world? It was not all these Buddhists that offended the Taliban by wanting to restore the statues. The actions of the Taliban were the moral equivalent of burning down a Masjid because someone who went there was arrested for theft.

There is nothing to answer you twit.. it is easy to take weapons off captured twits not unlike yourself and use them, either way bombs aren't difficult to make of the natural resources found in their country, those are the two means they can have weapons with all the sanctions imposed on them.. Isn't it amazing how the British army has been complaining.. I guess silly twits can only cry to their mama that their pants have zippers that make noise.. :haha:

The British Army overwhelmed by Afghan warriors - in 1842. So can we learn the lessons of history before it happens again?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...2-So-learn-lessons-history-happens-again.html


.. or have you no abstract thoughts?..

I am so amused by how you come back for more.. go enroll in some course where they teach you calisthenics with logic before you juggle meaningless words-

all the best

 

[espada]

You may find it funny, but what if someone attempted to deface the Kaaba? What about the desecration of Masjids? Is it amusing that Muslims are upset about suggestions to move the Dome of the Rock? As a Muslim do you not hold copies of the Quran so important that you have rules as to how to care for them?

Well yeah i'd be mad. But the thing is, i'm not a Buddhist. And i pray to Allah, i don't worship the Kaaba.

So even if it and all the masjids in the world were destroyed, i'd still pray to Allah.

In addition, part of being a muslim is believing in the pre-destination of things both good and evil. So if and when these things were to happen that would be the will of Allah and who am i to question that.

Espada merely mentioned the paradox of Buddhists tenets to their whining over Buddha statues which btw in their own festivals they create out of butter and then later eat..

Basically yes, although whining is rather harsh.


This is from Wikipedia:

According to the impermanence doctrine, human life embodies this flux in the aging process, the cycle of rebirth (saṃsāra), and in any experience of loss. The doctrine asserts that because things are impermanent, attachment to them is futile and leads to suffering (dukkha).

That is basic doctrine of Buddhism.




And here is something that nobody cares to think about and until today i didn't realize. Perhaps there was good in the destruction of the statues:

Earliest Oil Paintings Discovered
22 April 2008 ET

Oil paintings have been found in caves behind the two ancient colossal Buddha statues destroyed in 2001 by the Taliban, suggesting that Asians — not Europeans — were the first to invent oil painting.

Many people worldwide were in shock when the Taliban destroyed the Buddha statues in the Afghan region of Bamiyan.

Behind those statues are caves decorated with paintings from the fifth to ninth centuries...

Source

 

[espada]

OK, sorry back to the OP. Obviously none of you can give you the reasons the Allah would do anything.

But take a look at this picture and think for a second:

Mecca was a pretty unknown place in the desert all those years ago. In exchange for 360 idols within the Kaaba, strictly for some locals, it was replaced with what?

Millions of people, from all 360 degrees of the globe ... different colors, economic status, ages, etc.

There to worship and serve, the One - Allah!

Is this not further proof or what?

Those 360 idols couldn't do anything, to protect themselves or their "believers"!

 

[titus]

Well yeah i'd be mad. But the thing is, i'm not a Buddhist. And i pray to Allah, i don't worship the Kaaba.

So even if it and all the masjids in the world were destroyed, i'd still pray to Allah.

Yes, you and other Muslims would be mad, and you would have every right to be mad. It is wrong to treat object sacred to other religions with such malice and disregard.

You would still pray to Allah, and the Buddhists are still Buddhists. That still does not make the destruction of the statues morally right.

In addition, part of being a muslim is believing in the pre-destination of things both good and evil. So if and when these things were to happen that would be the will of Allah and who am i to question that.

While pre-destination sounds good, it does not preclude questioning things. It doesn't preclude questioning the situation in Palestine, the war in Iraq or the destruction of items important to followers of another religion. If taken to the extreme, that everything is the will of Allah and not to be questioned, then Muslims would have no issue with Israel. We both know that this is not the case.

There is nothing to answer you twit.

There is, but you keep ignoring the questions or are having difficulty understanding them. My guess is the former. I shall rephrase them so you might possibly understand them better.

1) How did destroying the statues help feed any children?

2) Why did the Taliban refuse the money they were offered to buy the statues? They could have used that money to feed the children they claimed they cared about.

I understand the claim that they were upset that a group wanted to spend money to refurbish the statues because they wanted the money for aide instead (even though there are reports they were considering destroying the statues before such an offer). What nobody has been able to answer was how such an offer warranted destroying the statues.

I also find it astonishing that the same people who can get upset when people don't treat Islam or its Prophet (i.e. the Danish Cartoons) with respect but applaud and defend when other Muslims do the same to another religion. One should not ask for such respect if they are not willing to give it.

If you have a rational answer please give it. If you don't then please write another post full of name-calling and insults that avoid answering the questions.