Proving The Existence Of Allah (swt)to An Atheist

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Religion is one thing, believing in something/someone ist another thing.

Definitions of religion on the Web:

a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"
an institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Religion—sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system—is commonly defined as belief concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine, and the moral codes, practices and institutions associated with such belief. In its broadest sense some have defined it as the sum total of answers given to explain humankind's relationship with the universe. In the course of the development of religion, it has taken a huge number of forms in various cultures and individuals. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

A framework of beliefs relating to supernatural or superhuman beings or forces that transcend the everyday material world.
www.modernhumanorigins.com/r.html

a set of attitudes, beliefs, and practices pertaining to supernatural power.
oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth370/gloss.html

generally a belief in a deity and practice of worship, action, and/or thought related to that deity. Loosely, any specific system of code of ethics, values, and belief.
www.carm.net/atheism/terms.htm

believing is something is what religion is all about...

 

[Malaikah]

A good example of blind faith.

So using ones intellect to come to a conclusion is blind faith?:rollseyes

Starting with such unsustantiated generalisations, doesn't exactly give the rest of the article much credibility ...

That isn't very nice. He said many not all.

 

[MuhammadRizan]

Salam.

Just to clarify one thing out: I never said, I'm an Atheist, or at least tell me, where I mentionned that!

actually i'm not referring you;-), the questions are general for any atheist here,

i ask because the topic is "Proving The Existence Of Allah (swt)to An Atheist"....

and i wanna add.

3-what kind of evidence or proof that atheist looking for or what kind of evidence or proof they can truly accept?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

3-what kind of evidence or proof that atheist looking for or what kind of evidence or proof they can truly accept?

they want to see/feel/touch/smell/hear Allah.

they basically await the dajjal... laa hawla walaa quwwata illah billah.l...

 

[Skywalker]

Even the Egyptians with Pyramids, the Chinese with the great wall were able to show 5000 years ago of their existance, but from this Jesus/Mohammed stuff, I can see nothing. It's all just hear and say.

Well that's the thing...it's called "faith". You might not have the kind of conventional proof that you're looking for, old bones and all, but I see proof of God's existance all around me all the time.

I think it's also worth mentioning that you don't have to dig into the earth to look for remnants of the past know that God exists, but to look inside yourself and find the part of you that logically, emotionally, and instinctively knows that God exists and acknowledges His guidance to mankind.

For example, let's say you live in a society where it's OK to kill (truth be told it's not a society that would exist for long) and then someone cames along and tells you that it's not. Wouldn't you be sort of 'called home' by that? Wouldn't you know that that was the truth as soon as you heard it? You might reject the notion and refuse to change, but the truth would at least be known to you, even though you might not be able to prove it.

Just to clarify one thing out: I never said, I'm an Atheist, or at least tell me, where I mentionned that!

Just out of curiosity, why don't you put anything down under "way of life"?

 

[saira-k]

believing is something is what religion is all about...

true!

 

[Gator]

Salam.



actually i'm not referring you;-), the questions are general for any atheist here,

i ask because the topic is "Proving The Existence Of Allah (swt)to An Atheist"....

and i wanna add.

3-what kind of evidence or proof that atheist looking for or what kind of evidence or proof they can truly accept?

Hello.

To your first question (from the previous post) I think the definition of atheist is not believing in god/gods, which is what I believe.

As for question 3, I don't think and proof would be forthcoming, but I'd like a god concept that seems to fit what I see in the world around me. That would be a good start. As to proof, something miraculous would make me tip towards believing that there is a god out there.

Thanks.

 

[glo]

Originally Posted by glo
Starting with such unsustantiated generalisations, doesn't exactly give the rest of the article much credibility ...

That isn't very nice. He said many not all.

Well, it's still an unsubstantiated statement ...

Actually, what he is doing is using a psychological ploy to get his target audience's (atheists) attention: by attaching to them the positive statement that they are to be congratulated for 'not blindly believing the religion of their fathers, as the majority of people do'. That makes the target audience more likely to listen and continue reading ...

I bet my bottom dollar that his address to Christians (or followers of other faiths) would go something like:
'Normally, when I meet a follower of religion X, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because unlike atheists you understand God's existance, and you desire to follow him. An atheist, on the other hand, is a long way away from such insights, as he uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.'

I am only guessing, of course, but this is clearly psychology in action!

Please don't be offended, Malaikah. I was not criticising Dr. Zakir Naik's article (I couldn't possibly, because I didn't read it all) - I merely commented on his clever (and, if you don't mind me saying, somewhat manipulative) introduction to the article.
I am sure he is not the only one to use such strategies to attract his target audience. It just tickled me, that's all!

Peace


Peace

 

[Muezzin]

This kind of thing belongs in Comparative Religion rather than General Chat.

Also, when trying to prove Allah's existence to an athiest, it must be done in the atheist's 'language' if you will of logic and scientific fact rather than the Islamic 'language' of the Quran and Sunnah(not Arabic, but the belief system itself) - otherwise there's a fundamental communication barrier and it just becomes a circular argument.

 

[Trumble]

Also, when trying to prove Allah's existence to an athiest, it must be done in the atheist's 'language' if you will of logic and scientific fact rather than the Islamic 'language' of the Quran and Sunnah(not Arabic, but the belief system itself) - otherwise there's a fundamental communication barrier and it just becomes a circular argument.

I disagree regarding scientific and logical 'language' (although granted 'Islamic' language is unlikely to achieve a lot), although certainly Buddhists are not run-of-the-mill atheists.

I think any attempt to discuss the existence, or otherwise, and properties of something that must be beyond science and logic (as least as far as we will ever have the capacity to understand those things) is a project that must be doomed to failure. It is the so called 'scientific proofs' presented in relation to God in general and the authenticity of the Qur'an as divine revelation that I find by far the weakest arguments for either. Personally I find most of them not so much unconvincing as laughable and it baffles me completely why so many otherwise intelligent people can take them seriously.. and would be quite happy to explain why had I not done so half-a-dozen times on this forum already. Neither God, nor the Qur'an, needs such nonsense and it does no favours to either. I suppose such things might convince the odd atheist, but only those who don't bother to do a little research - the only effect Zakir Naik on the 'theory of probability' is likely to have on the intelligent atheist is them collapsing in fits of laughter.

God cannot be 'proved' using 'science' or 'logic'. Neither can God be 'disproved' by science or logic. Attempting either is equally futile.

A little advice, if I may presume, for those who might seriously want to try and convince an atheist that God exists?

1. Forget anything written by Zakir Niak or Harun Yahya. Their stuff won't convince an atheist of anything other than the fact that being an atheist is the smart call.

2. Read Richard Dawkins 'The God Delusion'. Know your enemy.

3. Read McGrath's 'The Dawkins Delusion'. The best response to Dawkins, get some real ammo in your arsenal not pseudo-scientific tosh.

4. Read Collins' 'The Language of God'. If McGrath is the small-arms ammo in the pro-God stakes, Collins is the howitzer.

 

[Gator]

Just a quick point. I was answering MuhammadRizan's questions about atheists rather than trying to discuss the proof/non-proof of God.

I just figure he is trying to get a handle on atheist thinking (this one anyway) and I 'm just following his line of questions to see where it goes.

 

[Balthasar21]

i did not make that statement arrogant to the fact that the aethiests will completely deny it if not ridicule it.

But when a book comes to the most perfect human in the most eloquent style answering each and every problem of life and is still rejected then i honestly find a problem with the person.

Also i've grown a strong dislike for mathematics and science to always be shown to prove the validity of the quran, if anything this weakens my imaan! im not even kidding, anything Allah has revealed is far superior to anything humans can ever discover.


it is a fact that no book has stood the test of time other then the Quran Majeed. Allahu Akbar

How have Qur'aan stood the test of when the Qur'aan / Islam is only 1400 year old Book / Islam ???

 

[snakelegs]

Proving The Existence Of Allah (swt)to An Atheist:
don't.
save your breath and use your energy for something more useful.
most atheists are just as firm and rooted in their non-belief as you are in yours and you will be wasting your time.
(p.s. i should add for those who don't know - i am not an atheist. i believe in god.)

 

[guyabano]

Just a quick reminder to everyone (well almost everyone :X no offence to those of other faiths and bliefs): Try your hardest to convince a person of the truth, but if both their eyes are closed tightly shut, ears forcefully deafenned and minded narrowed, then they are not in a position to know. Allah has sealed the hearts of some, so don't beat yourself up if they do not come to terms. People are different, you can't expect to win them over that easily.

ummmm, you can also twist this story around ! Religious people are so blindfolded, narrowminded and deaf, that they don't like to see the truth.

It's always a point of view

 

[wilberhum]

QUOTE]Proving The Existence Of Allah (swt)to An Atheist [/QUOTE]
There needs to be a "Debunking Rule". Any thing debunked more than a hundred times is considered "Permanently Debunked".
This article has even been debunked before on this forum.

I find it so amazing that the greatest minds the world has ever known could not prove the existence or the non-existence of god.

Now we some ** who not only claims proof of god but proof of what he wrote.

How does such a great mind PROVE all this? It is simple, he doesn’t.

He uses unsubstantiated statements as facts, uses circler logic and redefines the definition of proof.

I find it so sad that some need to twist the truth and make up fabrications to justify what they believe. I don't think that's what faith is all about.

 

[nebula]

what do you athiests believe exactly?

that we have just coincidentally been made along with the universe around us?

The perfect flawless design of our bodies has just been made coincidentally?

The sun is a perfect distance away from the earth, not to close that it would be too hot for the earth to support life and not to far that it would be too cold to support life COINCIDENTALLY??

think?

are you really that arrogant that you cannot see these blessings?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

How have Qur'aan stood the test of when the Qur'aan / Islam is only 1400 year old Book / Islam ???

show me a book which has stood the test of time for four hundred years? let alone 1400...

 

[wilberhum]

what do you athiests believe exactly?

that we have just coincidentally been made along with the universe around us?

The perfect flawless design of our bodies has just been made coincidentally?

The sun is a perfect distance away from the earth, not to close that it would be too hot for the earth to support life and not to far that it would be too cold to support life COINCIDENTALLY??

think?

are you really that arrogant that you cannot see these blessings?

What a load of * and I believe in god.
perfect flawless design? Wow, you need to see my feet.
sun is a perfect distance away? With billions and billions of chances, one is bound to be right.
You work on the assumption that all is the result of the perfect execution of a multi billion year plan. I think it is all just chance.

 

[Gator]

what do you athiests believe exactly?

Atheists do not believe god/gods exist. Other than that, though we may overlap in some ideas, each atheists believes there own thing.

that we have just coincidentally been made along with the universe around us?

Yes, I believe pretty much that.

The perfect flawless design of our bodies has just been made coincidentally?

Yes, pretty much. I disagree with perfect & flawless.

The sun is a perfect distance away from the earth, not to close that it would be too hot for the earth to support life and not to far that it would be too cold to support life COINCIDENTALLY??

Yeah, well thats what I believe allowed life to develop.

think?

I try my best.

are you really that arrogant that you cannot see these blessings?

Please don't be angry.

 

[nebula]

Atheists do not believe god/gods exist. Other than that, though we may overlap in some ideas, each atheists believes there own thing.

Yes, I believe pretty much that.

Yes, pretty much. I disagree with perfect & flawless.

Yeah, well thats what I believe allowed life to develop.

I try my best.

Please don't be angry.

u didnt quite get my point lol but i just wanted to show the stupidity of athiests:thumbs_up